C's ready to contend with a big move?

[chambers]

I hope the big move is to trade IT AB ET Zeller right off the bat. They have little to no ceiling left and we can get something for them, like prospects and picks in 2017. We need to stick to a plan to get back to being the FAVORITES not contenders or playoff push or playoff appearance.....we are the Boston Celtics and championships only matter. This isn't baseball or hockey, we need stars/HOF type guys to win.

Do you see how making the playoffs screwed us? You got caught up in what you wanted at the moment and gave up what you wanted most. We could have had Myles Turner or Justise Winslow had we lost 3 more games. Which would have happened if Danny waived Bass and Jonas at the trade deadline......I am not one for tanking and CBS is too good of a coach and has honor....we want that. But Danny needs to do his job.

I feel you man.
The luxury we have are the Brooklyn picks. Maintaining a semi decent team with some mid level assets is also part of the strategy now. Guys like IT and Amir, Crowder, Jerebko can be traded with those Brooklyn picks for value and salary purposes.

eg: if things go further south in Sacramento with DMC, and our Brooklyn pick ends up in the top 8, this might be something that gets Cousins here...
2016 Brooklyn pick+2016 Celtics pick+Jerebko+Amir+one of Hunter/Rozier/Young.

[Monkhouse]

I personally am hoping for Bradley Beal to be traded.

I think hes the perfect player to put next to Smart, simply cause while Smart isn't a prototype PG, I see him liable enough to control passing lanes on defense, and make the simple but flashy passes at times.

There have been some passes Smart has been able to make that just left me astounded. Granted his court vision and passing isn't the best, but its very underrated, and rarely does he ever turn the ball over a lot.

Bradley Beal next to Smart? If we could pull off a crazy trade for DMC with our picks, and somehow have a lineup of Smart, Beal, and DMC. I would say that would potentially be the big 3 in 2-3 years especially considering the age in that core.

According to J. Michael of CSN Washington, the Wizards are telling the three year vet to prove it in 2016.

Bradley Beal has made it clear. He thinks he’s a max player, and that’s what he wants. I’ve talked to people on both sides all offseason about this. It seems to be Bradley Beal’s decision. The Wizards are willing to make him an offer an extension. But they’re not going to offer him the maximum extension right now simply because they don’t have to.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I hope the big move is to trade IT AB ET Zeller right off the bat. They have little to no ceiling left and we can get something for them, like prospects and picks in 2017. We need to stick to a plan to get back to being the FAVORITES not contenders or playoff push or playoff appearance.....we are the Boston Celtics and championships only matter. This isn't baseball or hockey, we need stars/HOF type guys to win.

Do you see how making the playoffs screwed us? You got caught up in what you wanted at the moment and gave up what you wanted most. We could have had Myles Turner or Justise Winslow had we lost 3 more games. Which would have happened if Danny waived Bass and Jonas at the trade deadline......I am not one for tanking and CBS is too good of a coach and has honor....we want that. But Danny needs to do his job.

I feel you man.
The luxury we have are the Brooklyn picks. Maintaining a semi decent team with some mid level assets is also part of the strategy now. Guys like IT and Amir, Crowder, Jerebko can be traded with those Brooklyn picks for value and salary purposes.

eg: if things go further south in Sacramento with DMC, and our Brooklyn pick ends up in the top 8, this might be something that gets Cousins here...
2016 Brooklyn pick+2016 Celtics pick+Jerebko+Amir+one of Hunter/Rozier/Young.

I can respect that.
But who knows what could happen with that situation and while we are stuck in the middle we are missing out on players like Justise Winslow and Myles Turner on draft night. Just 3 less wins and we would have had good young prospect to add and possibly trade. I was very big on Myles Turner especially from a value standpoint, in all honesty I would have picked him over Winslow. But either one would have been a great piece in a trade especially if they showed some game, which they did at least in summer league.

My ideal situation is to:
1. trade IT ET AB Zeller Sully KO and etc for future unprotected picks in 2017/18/19 and prospects like Myles Turner.
2. We get a top pick maybe top 5 or better. CBS has less to work with but still plays to win....but can't because his team and reserves are depleted and young
3. BKN pick is in top 8 or even better
4. Some of our younger guys break out with the added pt and coaching from CBS (who is probably one of the best at player development).
5. We also get a top pick in 2017, either from us or BKN, and the unprotected picks we netted in the trade at the top.


Now this is not for everyone but its my general idea to get the best pieces possible and then we can always keep them or trade.

[BDeCosta26]

I hope the big move is to trade IT AB ET Zeller right off the bat. They have little to no ceiling left and we can get something for them, like prospects and picks in 2017. We need to stick to a plan to get back to being the FAVORITES not contenders or playoff push or playoff appearance.....we are the Boston Celtics and championships only matter. This isn't baseball or hockey, we need stars/HOF type guys to win.

Do you see how making the playoffs screwed us? You got caught up in what you wanted at the moment and gave up what you wanted most. We could have had Myles Turner or Justise Winslow had we lost 3 more games. Which would have happened if Danny waived Bass and Jonas at the trade deadline......I am not one for tanking and CBS is too good of a coach and has honor....we want that. But Danny needs to do his job.

I feel you man.
The luxury we have are the Brooklyn picks. Maintaining a semi decent team with some mid level assets is also part of the strategy now. Guys like IT and Amir, Crowder, Jerebko can be traded with those Brooklyn picks for value and salary purposes.

eg: if things go further south in Sacramento with DMC, and our Brooklyn pick ends up in the top 8, this might be something that gets Cousins here...
2016 Brooklyn pick+2016 Celtics pick+Jerebko+Amir+one of Hunter/Rozier/Young.

I think it's almost a foregone conclusion them at things just get worse in Sacto. There's so many crazy aspects of that franchise, I think it's headed for an epic destruction. Sooner than later. Mid- December.

I think if all goes well for us, it'll take a little more than what you have there, but we might be able to avoid including Smart. Maybe something like Sullinger (who's hopefully averaging 17/10 by December), Bradley, Young OR Hunter (whoever your less sold on), and maybe a guy like Zeller plus the 16' Brooklyn 1st, 16' Boston 1st and a couple early 2nds or that Memphis 1st could get us Cousins and McLemore.

However you structure it, if it looks like we have a sure-fire Top 10 pick from Brooklyn plus the DAL and BOS 1sts and the Kings implode as I think they will, we could finally get our Cousins trade.

Smart/Thomas/Rozier
McLemore/Rozier/Young/Crowder
Crowder/Young/Jerebko/PJ3
Lee/Olynyk/Jerebko/Mickey
Cousins/Johnson/Olynyk/Mickey

That team has star talent, star potential, room to grow and assets to use. Plus the depth is all still there. That team would be top 3 or so in the east.

[SHAQATTACK]

Pretty close I. Think.

This is the early part of the window for that to happen.

Believe , Sully , KO , AB , etc ....are going to show their stuff this year .   All now experienced NBA players ,hopefully finally healthy to see what we got .

I suspect other GMs will be watching what the younger Celtics can accomplish .

The BIG one should happen with in the next two years I feel.

[chambers]

I hope the big move is to trade IT AB ET Zeller right off the bat. They have little to no ceiling left and we can get something for them, like prospects and picks in 2017. We need to stick to a plan to get back to being the FAVORITES not contenders or playoff push or playoff appearance.....we are the Boston Celtics and championships only matter. This isn't baseball or hockey, we need stars/HOF type guys to win.

Do you see how making the playoffs screwed us? You got caught up in what you wanted at the moment and gave up what you wanted most. We could have had Myles Turner or Justise Winslow had we lost 3 more games. Which would have happened if Danny waived Bass and Jonas at the trade deadline......I am not one for tanking and CBS is too good of a coach and has honor....we want that. But Danny needs to do his job.

I feel you man.
The luxury we have are the Brooklyn picks. Maintaining a semi decent team with some mid level assets is also part of the strategy now. Guys like IT and Amir, Crowder, Jerebko can be traded with those Brooklyn picks for value and salary purposes.

eg: if things go further south in Sacramento with DMC, and our Brooklyn pick ends up in the top 8, this might be something that gets Cousins here...
2016 Brooklyn pick+2016 Celtics pick+Jerebko+Amir+one of Hunter/Rozier/Young.

I can respect that.
But who knows what could happen with that situation and while we are stuck in the middle we are missing out on players like Justise Winslow and Myles Turner on draft night. Just 3 less wins and we would have had good young prospect to add and possibly trade. I was very big on Myles Turner especially from a value standpoint, in all honesty I would have picked him over Winslow. But either one would have been a great piece in a trade especially if they showed some game, which they did at least in summer league.

My ideal situation is to:
1. trade IT ET AB Zeller Sully KO and etc for future unprotected picks in 2017/18/19 and prospects like Myles Turner.
2. We get a top pick maybe top 5 or better. CBS has less to work with but still plays to win....but can't because his team and reserves are depleted and young
3. BKN pick is in top 8 or even better
4. Some of our younger guys break out with the added pt and coaching from CBS (who is probably one of the best at player development).
5. We also get a top pick in 2017, either from us or BKN, and the unprotected picks we netted in the trade at the top.


Now this is not for everyone but its my general idea to get the best pieces possible and then we can always keep them or trade.

I actually share the same sentiment as you. I'm just describing what (to me) it looks like the front office is thinking. They want to sell tickets whilst trying bring in some stars via free agency and trade.

My ideal scenario would be to do exactly what you described. I'm a 'championships or nothing' kinda fan.
If we aren't competing for a ship', we should be getting the best possible assets we can for middle aged vets and veterans.

If you look at what Danny is doing, I think he's got the option to completely blow this thing apart and keep guys 25 and under in 2016 if free agency doesn't work out.


I made a post about it recently here which is probably right up your alley.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=80304.0

If we didn't have the Brooklyn picks I dunno what us pro 'development' fans  would do right now lol. I am going to enjoy watching Smart, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey, Young, Sully, Olynyk, Crowder.
All the other guys they could dump and I'd have no problem with it.

[CoachBo]

Let alone what us "pro-winning" fans would do, in the face of the fans who love "development" more than winning.

We aren't the Kings. It's time to win. Now.

[PhoSita]

It's time to win. Now.

So I lined them up in the harness.  I attached them to the sleigh.  And I yelled, "MUSH!  Come on dogs!  The time to run is now!  Let's go!"

[D.o.s.]

Let alone what us "pro-winning" fans would do, in the face of the fans who love "development" more than winning.

We aren't the Kings. It's time to win. Now.

It'd be nice to see the C's win more than half their games for the first time in three years.

Unfortunately our team sucks. So.

[chambers]

Let alone what us "pro-winning" fans would do, in the face of the fans who love "development" more than winning.

We aren't the Kings. It's time to win. Now.

So if I take your snarky approach I could say that us 'pro championship' fans  like winning titles, and you 'win now' fans just wanna see us make the first round and get beaten up by the real contenders every year. A decent description might be 'cannon fodder' fans?

If you are going sh*% on my perspective+fan aspirations, you'll get the same in return.

[GetLucky]

Let alone what us "pro-winning" fans would do, in the face of the fans who love "development" more than winning.

We aren't the Kings. It's time to win. Now.

You're right; we aren't the Kings. I would argue that the Kings, right now, have a better and more talented roster than the Celtics.

The other ironic thing is that the Kings are basically the epitome of what you want the Celtics to become. They've been trying to "win now" for years, trading for all-stars (Rudy Gay), locking up their All-NBA center (Cousins), drafting an "NBA-ready" prospect (Cauley-Stein), and hiring one of the more winning veteran coaches (Karl) in league history. 

[Ilikesports17]

Let alone what us "pro-winning" fans would do, in the face of the fans who love "development" more than winning.

We aren't the Kings. It's time to win. Now.

You're right; we aren't the Kings. I would argue that the Kings, right now, have a better and more talented roster than the Celtics.

The other ironic thing is that the Kings are basically the epitome of what you want the Celtics to become. They've been trying to "win now" for years, trading for all-stars (Rudy Gay), locking up their All-NBA center (Cousins), drafting an "NBA-ready" prospect (Cauley-Stein), and hiring one of the more winning veteran coaches (Karl) in league history.

You are correct the Kings have more talent than us.

Would you rather be the Kings or Boston today?

keeping in mind that Sacremento has been rebuilding since before we made our last finals appearance.

For me "we arent the Kings" means that we need to have a sense of urgency to the rebuild. It means Danny cant Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. it up more or less. I mean if we are sitting here in 2019 still talking about getting that star or a top 5 pick then we would have become a doormat franchise.

If Danny can find a way to keep us a respectable basketball team that plays the game hard and with passion and a team that nobody wants to play against while simultaneously turning us into a contender that is ideal. The issue is that that is not easy to do. We knew the rebuild would not be immediate. The idea behind us being the celtics and needing to contend is for me less of a question of what route to take in a rebuild and more of a timeline thing. Id give danny 2 years of suck, or in the scenario we have now 1 year of suck, 2 years of eh and then if necessary a third year of eh but only because hes built such a hardnosed team thats so likeable.

Avoiding becoming the Kings has nothing to do with Sacremento's roster and everything to do with their recent history and connotation (if Im using that word right) in the league.

[GetLucky]

Let alone what us "pro-winning" fans would do, in the face of the fans who love "development" more than winning.

We aren't the Kings. It's time to win. Now.

You're right; we aren't the Kings. I would argue that the Kings, right now, have a better and more talented roster than the Celtics.

The other ironic thing is that the Kings are basically the epitome of what you want the Celtics to become. They've been trying to "win now" for years, trading for all-stars (Rudy Gay), locking up their All-NBA center (Cousins), drafting an "NBA-ready" prospect (Cauley-Stein), and hiring one of the more winning veteran coaches (Karl) in league history.

You are correct the Kings have more talent than us.

Would you rather be the Kings or Boston today?

keeping in mind that Sacremento has been rebuilding since before we made our last finals appearence.

Roster or franchise-wise? Put the Kings in the Eastern Conference with the Celtics' front office, and I'd take their roster over the Celtics every day of the week. Right now, due to the laughingstock that has been Kings' management recently (poor Vlade Divac, about to ruin his otherwise good reputation), I would want to be the Celtics franchise, but I'd rather have the Kings' roster

I was referencing Bo's statement, "It's time to win. Now." That seems to suggest that some sort of switch can be turned, making the Celtics go all-in for banner 18. I was merely pointing out the irony that he said, "We're not the Kings," when, in reality, the Kings are much more representative of the "It's Time to Win NOW" approach, as far as roster construction goes. While the Celtics are superior in the coaching and organizational-stability aspects of basketball, they are not well-equipped to win (a championship) now.

As popular as it has become to make fun of the Kings, their roster is quite good. Fortunately, the Celtics play in the Eastern Conference, making the "playoff team" title a little easier to obtain. And, gosh darn, you can laugh at the lottery team, but you can't laugh at the now-perennial playoff contender Boston Celtics. But, like I said, I would much rather have the Kings roster than the Celtics right now, reiterating that if you put that team under Brad Stevens' watch, with Danny and the C's ownership, in the Eastern Conference, they would seed higher than the Celtics.

I just think it's interesting how circumstantial labels can change the public perception of things. The Celtics have a great coach, great ownership, a great GM, and a mediocre (keep in mind, mediocre means "decidedly average") roster that plays in the easier of the two conferences. The Kings have an arguably above-average team in terms of talent, but a terrible everything else. The Kings also play in a much more talented conference. I just think it is a stretch to suggest that the Celtics are able to "turn it on" and become championship caliber considering their roster, and I think that idea severely takes for granted everything the Celtics have going their way outside of roster construction. The Kings were just, in my opinion, an example that exacerbated the conclusion's weak points, as their roster is better on paper.

EDIT: You edited in some points before I could finish my post

I think my post addresses these issues. Like I said, I did not read the "we're not the Kings" thing as speaking to organizational expectations as far as sustained excellence (and quick turnaround from the cellar)  goes. On the contrary, I thought it was a rather presumptious statement that took for granted all of the Celtics' advantages that help make their rather unspectacular roster overachieve. It suggested that the Kings, because they're not the Celtics, have no expectations of winning, when, like I said above, their roster moves have actually been more concurrent with expected success than the Celtics'.

EDIT2: My main point, lost amidst all of the specifics I tried to address, was that the "We. Must. Win. Now!" approach has potential negative consequences. The Kings, while also dealing with crazy circumstances, are also the potential downside of the "win now at all costs" approach. The Kings could be good, if they had better owners and GMs. The Celtics could have 25 championships, but Bias and Lewis died. In 10 years, people may look back and say, "The Celtics could have been a dynasty if they tanked for one year and added Ben Simmons. Those top-four conference finishes were great, and I really feel like they got the most from the roster. But no recent rings is disappointing." History is an unwelcoming host of "ifs", and there are a lot of potential "ifs" when a team pursues an ideal (ie: winning) so fiercely.

[spikelovetheCelts]

I personally am hoping for Bradley Beal to be traded.

I think hes the perfect player to put next to Smart, simply cause while Smart isn't a prototype PG, I see him liable enough to control passing lanes on defense, and make the simple but flashy passes at times.

There have been some passes Smart has been able to make that just left me astounded. Granted his court vision and passing isn't the best, but its very underrated, and rarely does he ever turn the ball over a lot.

Bradley Beal next to Smart? If we could pull off a crazy trade for DMC with our picks, and somehow have a lineup of Smart, Beal, and DMC. I would say that would potentially be the big 3 in 2-3 years especially considering the age in that core.

According to J. Michael of CSN Washington, the Wizards are telling the three year vet to prove it in 2016.

Bradley Beal has made it clear. He thinks he’s a max player, and that’s what he wants. I’ve talked to people on both sides all offseason about this. It seems to be Bradley Beal’s decision. The Wizards are willing to make him an offer an extension. But they’re not going to offer him the maximum extension right now simply because they don’t have to.

Unless Durant signs with the Wizards. Beal gets the max. If Durant signs with Wizards Beal may not take max to play for a sure winner. Beal is not coming here. Deng and Holford are best hopes this offseason at the moment.

[CoachBo]

Let alone what us "pro-winning" fans would do, in the face of the fans who love "development" more than winning.

We aren't the Kings. It's time to win. Now.

So if I take your snarky approach I could say that us 'pro championship' fans  like winning titles, and you 'win now' fans just wanna see us make the first round and get beaten up by the real contenders every year. A decent description might be 'cannon fodder' fans?

If you are going sh*% on my perspective+fan aspirations, you'll get the same in return.

Snark? Please. You know as well as I do this board is littered with people who would rather obsess over development than win.

This team needs to make moves - now - to improve its talent base. The players on this roster aren't sufficient to win a championship, and they never will be.