It's going to be a fight to make playoffs this year....

[mgent]

Bucks bring Jabari Parker in his second season back after he missed half of the season. They bring in Greg Monroe. Another year of experience for MCW and Greak Freak. As long as MCW isn't a total disaster at the point (they also brought in Greivis Vasquez) I think they'll push for 50 wins.

Miami has one of the best starting lineups in the league, on paper. We know Wade can't stay healthy for a season but if Whiteside wasn't a flash in the pan last season, Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside is a terrific starting crew. I expect they'll be top 4 in the East, easily.

I'm not QUITE as convinced about the Bucks as you are, but I think you're spot on about the Heat.

Dragic is severely underrated, as is Wade at this point in his career.

WAS and BOS are obviously in, in my opinion.  Only other teams in the battle should be the Bucks and Pacers.

[MJohnnyboy]

I always end up putting the Bucks above the C's when I do my own little top teams list, but I'm not 100% sold on that all working out this year. I don't think it's impossible to imagine a scenario where we end up with a higher seed or better record. I think they're both possible 50 win teams, Milwaukee probably a little more likely to be one.

But people forget that things looked pretty bad for them after the MCW trade. He really doesn't fit for them like Knight did. Knight was playing his best ball ever before that trade. I know Parker is coming back, everyone loves Giannis (I'm not as high on him as some) and the Monroe signing seems good but there's a whole lot of question marks over there.

For one, they had huge spacing problems after the MCW trade and now they've traded away their best stretch 4 (Illysova) and added a guy in Monroe for 30 MPG who can't even knock down a mid-range consistently. Henson has no range, Giannis isn't a good shooter. Carter-Williams has the most broken jump shot this side of MKG. In a league that values spacing and shooting more by the minute, it's a genuine concern.

Two, defense. Their perimeter defense is solid, much like ours (thought not quite as good, IMO). But that big defense is scary. I know Henson is pretty good, but how much can you play him with Giannis. and Parker at the 4 and Monroe (A pretty poor defender) getting big minutes at the 5? Parker himself has been a bad defender since high school. Now, we managed to get by last year with Zeller and Olynyk playing the 5, and I think Monroe isn't any worse than those guys, so it can be done but they're not without major question marks on that end as well.

I also wonder about Parker's health coming off that injury. For his sake I hope he's fine, but it could take him a little while to bounce back. It wouldn't surprise me to see Middleton regress a bit as well. His defense went from mediocre to great almost overnight, and with Parker back and Monroe he may get less usage.

I like Kidd as a coach, I like the pieces they have, the versatility. I think they have a good future. But unless Giannis develops an excellent deep ball it wouldn't surprise me to see them right around 41-45 wins, and for the C's to be in the 44-48 win range. I wouldn't bet on it, but I think it's possible. I'm not sold on then being some new rising juggernaut

I've listed what could make them a great team and you've listed what could make them not so great. This is a matter of we'll have to see what happens. I respect the insight. The way I see it, the reason why they traded Knight for MCW was because they wanted someone who could distribute and not take shots away from their core guys because I believe they are going to entrust their offense to Giannis and Jabari. Also I don't think they wanted to pay Knight the max this summer so they tried to capitalize on his value.

Also things may have been different had Jabari and Sanders stayed on the court but there's nothing they could have done about that. I just think it's more likely the Bucks get a higher seed than the Celtics because they have plenty of young guys with oodles of potential to be something special.

As optimistic as I want to be about the Celtics, I can't help but think that they thrived because of the situation they were in. Two of the easts supposed playoff-bound teams lost their best players (Paul George and Chris Bosh), three of the easts playoff teams were in a tailspin late in the season (Toronto, Washington, and yes, Milwaukee), the Celtics had an easy schedule after the all-star break, and let's face it, they surprised themselves with how good they were with that late-season run.

The reason why I bring that up is not to be the devil's advocate, but more to point out that you can argue why one team might be good and why it might not be. Milwaukee's not a sure thing, and neither is Boston, but I think the odds are in their favor. More for the Bucks than the Celtics.

[PhoSita]

A lot of these supposed East playoff teams go three whole players deep. I'm not nervous about them.

Which ones would you say go only 3 deep? 

Miami has Wade, Dragic, Bosh, Deng, Winslow, and Whiteside.

Indiana has Hill, George, Ellis.  Not a lot else, sure, but Turner may be pretty good, and CJ Miles, Rodney Stuckey, Jordan Hill, and Lavoy Allen are all quality players.

Charlotte has Big Al, Kemba, Batum, and MKG.

Detroit has R-Jax and Drummond.  Nobody else truly amazing, but Marcus Morris, Ilyasova, and Stanley Johnson should all help them.

Milwaukee has Giannis, Jabari, Monroe, and Middleton.

Orlando has Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic, plus Payton, Gordon, and Hezonja.


It's true there are some teams without a ton of depth, and no world beaters in the bunch.  But it's not like the Celts have such a great roster on paper, either.  The Celts don't even go 3 deep if you want to talk about above average starters.  The only real advantage is having 11 or 12 decent rotation players, plus a few other guys who can probably play a little.

[chambers]

Why? Celts are at worse making 7th place

I expect to make 4th-5th

thanks for your input triboy. Great explanation and reasoning as usual.

Do you rely on all teams to get injuries to their key players?
Why do you list Bosh as an injury prone player? He had blood clots, not a torn ACL or broken ankle. Even without Wade, a core of

Dragic, Deng, Bosh, Whiteside is a far better core than ours.

Most of those teams listed had injuries to key players, all around the end of the regular season when we were fighting to make playoffs.
Wade and Bosh went down, and they only acquired Dragic at the trade deadline.

The Pistons started 5 wins 23 losses for the season. They then traded Josh Smith and became a top 5 offense and top 4 defense, clawing their way back to a 23-33 record. Then Jennings went down.

Charlotte- after a horrific start with Lance Stephenson there-were within 2 games of us, and then Kemba Walker went down. They've also added Batum on the wing next to MKG who is a serious upgrade over Gerald Henderson.
Their 5 will be Walker, MKG, Batum, Kaminsky, Al Jefferson.

The Bucks were better than us last year and added Monroe. Jabari Parker is also back.

At least try and give some kind of structured argument instead of blazing/ignoring through everyone's reasoning and giving 'triboy's way or the highway'.

eg why do you expect to make 4th or 5th?

[MJohnnyboy]

Why? Celts are at worse making 7th place

I expect to make 4th-5th

thanks for your input triboy. Great explanation and reasoning as usual.

Do you rely on all teams to get injuries to their key players?
Why do you list Bosh as an injury prone player? He had blood clots, not a torn ACL or broken ankle. Even without Wade, a core of

Dragic, Deng, Bosh, Whiteside is a far better core than ours.

Most of those teams listed had injuries to key players, all around the end of the regular season when we were fighting to make playoffs.
Wade and Bosh went down, and they only acquired Dragic at the trade deadline.
The Pistons started 5 wins 23 losses for the season. They then traded Josh Smith and became a top 5 offense and top 4 defense, clawing their way back to a 23-33 record. Then Jennings went down.

The Bucks were better than us last year and added Monroe. Jabari Parker is also back.

At least try and give some kind of structured argument instead of blazing/ignoring through everyone's reasoning and giving 'triboy's way or the highway'.

eg why do you expect to make 4th or 5th?

Technically they waived Josh Smith. I'm pretty sure they would have preferred trading Smith more than anything.

Just saying.

[GC003332]

Apart from the Cavs there is just so much mediocrity in the East.
You could have 9-10 teams bunched in the 45-35 win bracket.
Does Skiles get the Magic's young guys to play defence?
Does Carmelo prove his worth again?
Same goes for George and the Pacers, Fun fact , until last season they hadn't had a losing record at home since Reagan was in the Whitehouse
After their flameout in the playoffs do the Raptors take a step back?
Does Rose play close to a full season with the Bulls? Do the players have a mental letdown with the change in coaching and take their foot off the pedal?
Can Whiteside prove he is a winning player over a full season for the Heat?
Was Atlanta's season a flash in the pan?
Can wonder boy Stevens do his best Macgyver impression and get the Celtics into the playoffs while the other teams aren't sleeping on us?
Hopefully the Cavs get pushed a little more in the playoffs than they were last season, embarrassing for the state of the East quite frankly.
Lots of good story lines to watch for.

[Eja117]

A lot of these supposed East playoff teams go three whole players deep. I'm not nervous about them.

Which ones would you say go only 3 deep? 

Miami has Wade, Dragic, Bosh, Deng, Winslow, and Whiteside.

Indiana has Hill, George, Ellis.  Not a lot else, sure, but Turner may be pretty good, and CJ Miles, Rodney Stuckey, Jordan Hill, and Lavoy Allen are all quality players.

Charlotte has Big Al, Kemba, Batum, and MKG.

Detroit has R-Jax and Drummond.  Nobody else truly amazing, but Marcus Morris, Ilyasova, and Stanley Johnson should all help them.

Milwaukee has Giannis, Jabari, Monroe, and Middleton.

Orlando has Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic, plus Payton, Gordon, and Hezonja.


It's true there are some teams without a ton of depth, and no world beaters in the bunch.  But it's not like the Celts have such a great roster on paper, either.  The Celts don't even go 3 deep if you want to talk about above average starters.  The only real advantage is having 11 or 12 decent rotation players, plus a few other guys who can probably play a little.

Look at the age and injury history of a lot of these teams.

Also....the Celtics aren't going to be the same Celtics this year. Marcus Smart isn't going to be the same rookie he was. There will be a much smaller gap between him and Kyle Lowry or Teague or Dragic this year.  And last year when the 3rd pg was Pressy or maybe Evan Turner...this year it's Rozier.  No more Pressy.
Teams aren't going to be able to pound it inside this year like last year. When they get to the middle it's not going to be some skinny Tyler Zeller waiting or a fat Sully or a slow and unsure KO. It's going to be Amir and D Lee. 
Our team is going to have some very serious depth coached by the best coach in the league. 
What is the injury that's going to kill us? Smart? More play time for Isaiah Thomas.
The team will be like the Patriots. Next man up. Do your job. Win.

[Tr1boy]

Bucks are not ahead of the Celtics. Some of you guys are seriously overestimating the Bucks.

Giannis is not the next super big thing.  Why don't we say KO is the next big thing? Both are good players but nothing exceptional.  Middleton is not a top talent.  As good as someone like Wes Matthews.   What has Monroe done in the past?  His defense is seriously mediocre.   

Bucks messed things up by trading away Knight.   MCW is overrated. 

Jabari Parker is still like a 1st year rookie and another mediocre defender

Celtics overall is a better defensive team.   Better/proven vets on the team.  Bucks might have some more "flash" in the lineup for offense, but overall the Celts are a better team.  And if not, both teams are close. Not bucks are 4th good and Celtics are 8th. 

We beat the Bucks in a playoffs matchup right now. 

[Tr1boy]

Why? Celts are at worse making 7th place

I expect to make 4th-5th

thanks for your input triboy. Great explanation and reasoning as usual.

Do you rely on all teams to get injuries to their key players?
Why do you list Bosh as an injury prone player? He had blood clots, not a torn ACL or broken ankle. Even without Wade, a core of

Dragic, Deng, Bosh, Whiteside is a far better core than ours.

Most of those teams listed had injuries to key players, all around the end of the regular season when we were fighting to make playoffs.
Wade and Bosh went down, and they only acquired Dragic at the trade deadline.

The Pistons started 5 wins 23 losses for the season. They then traded Josh Smith and became a top 5 offense and top 4 defense, clawing their way back to a 23-33 record. Then Jennings went down.

Charlotte- after a horrific start with Lance Stephenson there-were within 2 games of us, and then Kemba Walker went down. They've also added Batum on the wing next to MKG who is a serious upgrade over Gerald Henderson.
Their 5 will be Walker, MKG, Batum, Kaminsky, Al Jefferson.

The Bucks were better than us last year and added Monroe. Jabari Parker is also back.

At least try and give some kind of structured argument instead of blazing/ignoring through everyone's reasoning and giving 'triboy's way or the highway'.

eg why do you expect to make 4th or 5th?

whatever man. You keep underrating the Celts and overrate everyone else. I couldn't care less. Your an interesting fan.  Hassan Whiteside is that good eh?  that is the joke of the day. He still has alot to prove

You keep stating to take off my green goggles. But I think I'm more realistic than you.  It's ok, you will understand how good this Celts squad is once the season starts

[LilRip]

Bucks are not ahead of the Celtics. Some of you guys are seriously overestimating the Bucks.

Giannis is not the next super big thing.  Why don't we say KO is the next big thing? Both are good players but nothing exceptional.  Middleton is not a top talent.  As good as someone like Wes Matthews.   What has Monroe done in the past?  His defense is seriously mediocre.   

Bucks messed things up by trading away Knight.   MCW is overrated. 

Jabari Parker is still like a 1st year rookie and another mediocre defender

Celtics overall is a better defensive team.   Better/proven vets on the team.  Bucks might have some more "flash" in the lineup for offense, but overall the Celts are a better team.  And if not, both teams are close. Not bucks are 4th good and Celtics are 8th. 

I bet we beat the Bucks in a playoffs matchup right now.

is this based on the premise that the C's young players are going to improve and that the Bucks young players are going to stagnate if not deteriorate?

[Rondo9]

Bucks are not ahead of the Celtics. Some of you guys are seriously overestimating the Bucks.

Giannis is not the next super big thing.  Why don't we say KO is the next big thing? Both are good players but nothing exceptional.  Middleton is not a top talent.  As good as someone like Wes Matthews.   What has Monroe done in the past?  His defense is seriously mediocre.   

Bucks messed things up by trading away Knight.   MCW is overrated. 

Jabari Parker is still like a 1st year rookie and another mediocre defender

Celtics overall is a better defensive team.   Better/proven vets on the team.  Bucks might have some more "flash" in the lineup for offense, but overall the Celts are a better team.  And if not, both teams are close. Not bucks are 4th good and Celtics are 8th. 

I bet we beat the Bucks in a playoffs matchup right now.

is this based on the premise that the C's young players are going to improve and that the Bucks young players are going to stagnate if not deteriorate?

I kind of understand where he's coming from, sometimes it does feel people do underrate the Celtics while overrating everyone else.

[PhoSita]

Also....the Celtics aren't going to be the same Celtics this year. Marcus Smart isn't going to be the same rookie he was.

Fascinating that the Celtics are the only team in the conference afforded such optimism.

[Tr1boy]

My east rankings
1.Cleveland
2.Miami
3.Chicago
4.Milwaukee
5.Atlanta
6.Toronto
7.Washington
8.Boston
9.Detroit
10.Indiana
11.Charlotte
12.Orlando
13.New York
14.Brooklyn
15.Philadelphia

Why do you have Indiana at 10?  I see them top 6 with George back and adding Ellis.  As last year proved there will be injuries and surprises but I see the Celtics making the playoffs once again finishing somewhere in the 5-8 range.

Okay I feel like I just explained why. Read over my post again and you'll see. Did you not read what I said above? I don't think it will be as seamless as everyone thinks. George's transition back to the NBA might be a little hard with the broken leg and all but that's just me. Indiana has a completely different team than the one they had before George got injured. But I could be wrong. So if the Pacers and the Celtics are going to make it, who is getting out of the playoff picture to make room for them?

Why is Miami up on your list??

You cant realistical think dwade and bosh will be healthy for most of the year.

Bucks ahead of the Celts?? I dont get this

Dwade maybe, but Bosh has never had consistent injury problems. This year was the only time Bosh had a long-term injury in his career. Remember this is on paper. For all we know, Lebron is going to suffer a serious injury this season and hence sends the east into an even bigger flux. More importantly Miami's got a superb starting 5 (Wade-Bosh-Dragic-Whiteside-Deng) with a good bench (Winslow-McRoberts-Stoudemire-Chalmers-Green-Birdman). To me that's good enough for top 2, but that's if they stay healthy.

Bucks ahead of Celtics?? ...Are you kidding? Several reasons
1. They were better than the Celtics last year by a record standpoint
2. They are getting their prized young player back from injury who should give them a much needed offensive boost with Jabari.
3. They have year 3 of the Greek Freek, who is tapping into his potential as the next T-Mac/Durant. There's no telling how good he's going to be this year.
4. They retrained Khris Middleton, one of the younger and more talented 3&D players in the league who will only get better.

5. They added Greg Monroe, a young talented center who fills in 2 of the Bucks biggest weaknesses right off the bat, scoring and rebounding. He's not a rim protector but he is stout defensive player. Not to mention he in lived in Andre Drummonds shadow in detroit and now he has free rein. I'm deeming him an MIP candidate this year.

Now tell me, do the Celtics have anyone right now on their roster that beats those 4 players? IT maybe, but he's our sixth man. Smart might be, but that remains to be seen. Other than that, Milwaukee has quite a few guys that we wish we had. Remember all those fans complaining how we took KO over Giannis? Remember how we all were bummed that we missed out on Jabari and had to settle for Marcus (Disclaimer: Not complaining. I'm happy we have Smart, but if I had the option, I'd take Jabari)? Remember how we wanted Danny to go after Middleton and Monroe this off-season?

They also have MCW who I will admit is up in the air, but they also have a nice bench full of talented role players. John Henson, OJ Mayo, Jerryd bayless, Grevis Vazquez, Chris Copeland, Miles Plumlee. That's a great squad with a great coach Jason Kidd.

The Bucks are going to be great this year. I'd love to hear you tell me how the Celtics are going to top the Bucks this year in the east.

I always end up putting the Bucks above the C's when I do my own little top teams list, but I'm not 100% sold on that all working out this year. I don't think it's impossible to imagine a scenario where we end up with a higher seed or better record. I think they're both possible 50 win teams, Milwaukee probably a little more likely to be one.

But people forget that things looked pretty bad for them after the MCW trade. He really doesn't fit for them like Knight did. Knight was playing his best ball ever before that trade. I know Parker is coming back, everyone loves Giannis (I'm not as high on him as some) and the Monroe signing seems good but there's a whole lot of question marks over there.

For one, they had huge spacing problems after the MCW trade and now they've traded away their best stretch 4 (Illysova) and added a guy in Monroe for 30 MPG who can't even knock down a mid-range consistently. Henson has no range, Giannis isn't a good shooter. Carter-Williams has the most broken jump shot this side of MKG. In a league that values spacing and shooting more by the minute, it's a genuine concern.

Two, defense. Their perimeter defense is solid, much like ours (thought not quite as good, IMO). But that big defense is scary. I know Henson is pretty good, but how much can you play him with Giannis. and Parker at the 4 and Monroe (A pretty poor defender) getting big minutes at the 5? Parker himself has been a bad defender since high school. Now, we managed to get by last year with Zeller and Olynyk playing the 5, and I think Monroe isn't any worse than those guys, so it can be done but they're not without major question marks on that end as well.

I also wonder about Parker's health coming off that injury. For his sake I hope he's fine, but it could take him a little while to bounce back. It wouldn't surprise me to see Middleton regress a bit as well. His defense went from mediocre to great almost overnight, and with Parker back and Monroe he may get less usage.

I like Kidd as a coach, I like the pieces they have, the versatility. I think they have a good future. But unless Giannis develops an excellent deep ball it wouldn't surprise me to see them right around 41-45 wins, and for the C's to be in the 44-48 win range. I wouldn't bet on it, but I think it's possible. I'm not sold on then being some new rising juggernaut

Bucks will win. They will make the playoffs. But to say they are 4th good while the Celts are 8th good is nonsense.  Celtics if they had the team in the 2nd half for the full year would of surpassed the Bucks in the standings. 

Bucks have a bunch of mediocre/poor defenders that will eat alot of min. Monroe, MCW, Parker. Mayo is on and off.   

Celtics are one of the better team D in the league.  With adding Amir, Rozier, Mickey the team just keeps getting stronger in the D department.   

[LilRip]

i think C's end up with the #2 seed in the east, behind ATL.

Meanwhile, the Looney Tunes will once again face off against the combined talents of Lebron, Paul George, John Wall, and co. and play the game of their lives or else risk becoming slaves on Moron Mountain...all without the help of Michael Jordan!

[Tr1boy]

My east rankings
1.Cleveland
2.Miami
3.Chicago
4.Milwaukee
5.Atlanta
6.Toronto
7.Washington
8.Boston
9.Detroit
10.Indiana
11.Charlotte
12.Orlando
13.New York
14.Brooklyn
15.Philadelphia

Why do you have Indiana at 10?  I see them top 6 with George back and adding Ellis.  As last year proved there will be injuries and surprises but I see the Celtics making the playoffs once again finishing somewhere in the 5-8 range.

Okay I feel like I just explained why. Read over my post again and you'll see. Did you not read what I said above? I don't think it will be as seamless as everyone thinks. George's transition back to the NBA might be a little hard with the broken leg and all but that's just me. Indiana has a completely different team than the one they had before George got injured. But I could be wrong. So if the Pacers and the Celtics are going to make it, who is getting out of the playoff picture to make room for them?

Why is Miami up on your list??

You cant realistical think dwade and bosh will be healthy for most of the year.

Bucks ahead of the Celts?? I dont get this

Dwade maybe, but Bosh has never had consistent injury problems. This year was the only time Bosh had a long-term injury in his career. Remember this is on paper. For all we know, Lebron is going to suffer a serious injury this season and hence sends the east into an even bigger flux. More importantly Miami's got a superb starting 5 (Wade-Bosh-Dragic-Whiteside-Deng) with a good bench (Winslow-McRoberts-Stoudemire-Chalmers-Green-Birdman). To me that's good enough for top 2, but that's if they stay healthy.

Bucks ahead of Celtics?? ...Are you kidding? Several reasons
1. They were better than the Celtics last year by a record standpoint
2. They are getting their prized young player back from injury who should give them a much needed offensive boost with Jabari.
3. They have year 3 of the Greek Freek, who is tapping into his potential as the next T-Mac/Durant. There's no telling how good he's going to be this year.
4. They retrained Khris Middleton, one of the younger and more talented 3&D players in the league who will only get better.

5. They added Greg Monroe, a young talented center who fills in 2 of the Bucks biggest weaknesses right off the bat, scoring and rebounding. He's not a rim protector but he is stout defensive player. Not to mention he in lived in Andre Drummonds shadow in detroit and now he has free rein. I'm deeming him an MIP candidate this year.

Now tell me, do the Celtics have anyone right now on their roster that beats those 4 players? IT maybe, but he's our sixth man. Smart might be, but that remains to be seen. Other than that, Milwaukee has quite a few guys that we wish we had. Remember all those fans complaining how we took KO over Giannis? Remember how we all were bummed that we missed out on Jabari and had to settle for Marcus (Disclaimer: Not complaining. I'm happy we have Smart, but if I had the option, I'd take Jabari)? Remember how we wanted Danny to go after Middleton and Monroe this off-season?

They also have MCW who I will admit is up in the air, but they also have a nice bench full of talented role players. John Henson, OJ Mayo, Jerryd bayless, Grevis Vazquez, Chris Copeland, Miles Plumlee. That's a great squad with a great coach Jason Kidd.

The Bucks are going to be great this year. I'd love to hear you tell me how the Celtics are going to top the Bucks this year in the east.

I always end up putting the Bucks above the C's when I do my own little top teams list, but I'm not 100% sold on that all working out this year. I don't think it's impossible to imagine a scenario where we end up with a higher seed or better record. I think they're both possible 50 win teams, Milwaukee probably a little more likely to be one.

But people forget that things looked pretty bad for them after the MCW trade. He really doesn't fit for them like Knight did. Knight was playing his best ball ever before that trade. I know Parker is coming back, everyone loves Giannis (I'm not as high on him as some) and the Monroe signing seems good but there's a whole lot of question marks over there.

For one, they had huge spacing problems after the MCW trade and now they've traded away their best stretch 4 (Illysova) and added a guy in Monroe for 30 MPG who can't even knock down a mid-range consistently. Henson has no range, Giannis isn't a good shooter. Carter-Williams has the most broken jump shot this side of MKG. In a league that values spacing and shooting more by the minute, it's a genuine concern.

Two, defense. Their perimeter defense is solid, much like ours (thought not quite as good, IMO). But that big defense is scary. I know Henson is pretty good, but how much can you play him with Giannis. and Parker at the 4 and Monroe (A pretty poor defender) getting big minutes at the 5? Parker himself has been a bad defender since high school. Now, we managed to get by last year with Zeller and Olynyk playing the 5, and I think Monroe isn't any worse than those guys, so it can be done but they're not without major question marks on that end as well.

I also wonder about Parker's health coming off that injury. For his sake I hope he's fine, but it could take him a little while to bounce back. It wouldn't surprise me to see Middleton regress a bit as well. His defense went from mediocre to great almost overnight, and with Parker back and Monroe he may get less usage.

I like Kidd as a coach, I like the pieces they have, the versatility. I think they have a good future. But unless Giannis develops an excellent deep ball it wouldn't surprise me to see them right around 41-45 wins, and for the C's to be in the 44-48 win range. I wouldn't bet on it, but I think it's possible. I'm not sold on then being some new rising juggernaut

Bucks will win. They will make the playoffs. But to say they are 4th good while the Celts are 8th good is nonsense.  Celtics if they had the team in the 2nd half for the full year would of surpassed the Bucks in the standings. 

Bucks have a bunch of mediocre/poor defenders that will eat alot of min. Monroe, MCW, Parker. Mayo is on and off.   

Celtics are one of the better team D in the league.  With adding Amir, Rozier, Mickey the team just keeps getting stronger in the D department.