Poll

The team that we trade with is Charlotte to let you know the value.

Yes. It would clears the logjam and pick up some OK assets.
26 (37.7%)
No. He's too valuable as a playmaker.
32 (46.4%)
I would only trade him for a late first.
11 (15.9%)

Total Members Voted: 69

Author Topic: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders  (Read 10262 times)

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Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2015, 11:43:30 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Nope, no way. He has the most tradeable contract on our team. People often say "We should keep X for now because their value will increase at the trade deadline" Of all those players, ET will see the biggest increase in value. He'd be a perfect compliment to a lot of contending teams at the deadline.

Except that the last time he got traded at the trade deadline it was for the corpse of Danny Granger and a second round pick -- and that was after he was having a better year in Philly (17.5-6-4 assists? or something like that) than he's likely to have in Boston, as well as being in the tantalizing position of RFA, so Indiana could keep him at all odds if they cared to.

Of course, it turned out that he was one of the two primary factors in the total dissolution of the Pacers (depending on which rumors you believe), and wasn't a meaningful contributor to a team that was aiming at the ECF.

So, I'm not sure that what you're saying has a very strong basis in reality.

 Also worth noting: the 76ers tried to get a first round pick in exchange for him forever... and they settled for the deceased Mr. Granger and a second-rounder.

Zeller was traded for a trade exception, IT was traded an expiring Marcus Thornton and a late 2016 1st, David Lee was traded for Gerald Wallace... that list could go on forever. What happened in the past doesn't mean that will be their trade value next time. On top of that it is clear that ET has had his best season in the NBA with the Celtics and is on an expiring contract. Both those things increase his trade value.

Last season Turner was one of our most clutch, most consistent, highest level players. It just baffles me that people would trade that for 2 second rounders. I don't buy the arguments about blocking growth. Even if you bench him until an injury comes along he's better value than some of the others.

Zeller's one of the last players on this team that will go in a salary dump.  Even backup centers are tough to find in this league, nevermind one's on cheap contracts.

I don't think Danny will salary dump, I think he'll find a trade worth doing. But if he does have to, Zeller is way down on the depth chart and will be a restricted free agent next year. Presumably his salary will increase after that negating your point about a cheap contract. Guys who can go off for a triple double are rare to find as well. Also we do have a gajillion picks we can use to develop a backup big if we need to.

I get its not a simple decision. ET is a great trade chip NOW. But I think he'll be better value in the future. But I just can't get behind the idea that one of our better players gets dumped because "We need to invest in our future", particularly when Danny seems focused on the now as much as the future.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2015, 12:00:16 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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These threads will be nonexistent in about 2 months (if not before), I can't wait!
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Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2015, 12:05:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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These threads will be nonexistent in about 2 months (if not before), I can't wait!

Because Turner will have been traded?  :)
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Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2015, 12:09:56 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Nope, no way. He has the most tradeable contract on our team. People often say "We should keep X for now because their value will increase at the trade deadline" Of all those players, ET will see the biggest increase in value. He'd be a perfect compliment to a lot of contending teams at the deadline.

Except that the last time he got traded at the trade deadline it was for the corpse of Danny Granger and a second round pick -- and that was after he was having a better year in Philly (17.5-6-4 assists? or something like that) than he's likely to have in Boston, as well as being in the tantalizing position of RFA, so Indiana could keep him at all odds if they cared to.

Of course, it turned out that he was one of the two primary factors in the total dissolution of the Pacers (depending on which rumors you believe), and wasn't a meaningful contributor to a team that was aiming at the ECF.

So, I'm not sure that what you're saying has a very strong basis in reality.

 Also worth noting: the 76ers tried to get a first round pick in exchange for him forever... and they settled for the deceased Mr. Granger and a second-rounder.

Zeller was traded for a trade exception, IT was traded an expiring Marcus Thornton and a late 2016 1st, David Lee was traded for Gerald Wallace... that list could go on forever. What happened in the past doesn't mean that will be their trade value next time. On top of that it is clear that ET has had his best season in the NBA with the Celtics and is on an expiring contract. Both those things increase his trade value.

In what universe did Turner have a better year last season than the season prior? Are we only looking at his two assist-per-game uptick? His arguable shooting (which has never been a strength?) Or perhaps we didn't pay much attention to Turner prior to his tenure with the Celtics. That is much more likely.


Quote
Last season Turner was one of our most clutch, most consistent, highest level players. It just baffles me that people would trade that for 2 second rounders. I don't buy the arguments about blocking growth. Even if you bench him until an injury comes along he's better value than some of the others.

Our team sucked last season. We sucked to varying degrees throughout the season, but we were always that: a sucky team that sucked less towards the end of the year, sure, but then we doubled down on the suck during the postseason. The fact that Turner was one of the best players on a bad team does not mean that he was, in any way, a good player. When he is on bad teams, he puts up empty numbers, and when he is on good teams he doesn't play (as evidenced by his stint in Indiana -- a situation that should have been perfect for him, as the team was in desperate need of a secondary ball handler).

I would prefer that the Celtics attempt to become a good team. Playing Evan Turner is not a way for them do to that.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2015, 12:43:06 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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These threads will be nonexistent in about 2 months (if not before), I can't wait!

Because Turner will have been traded?  :)

LOL, I'll let you have that, I left it hanging.  ;) I don't know how it will turn out, but it will be done by then, no matter who it is.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2015, 01:25:11 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Nope, no way. He has the most tradeable contract on our team. People often say "We should keep X for now because their value will increase at the trade deadline" Of all those players, ET will see the biggest increase in value. He'd be a perfect compliment to a lot of contending teams at the deadline.

Except that the last time he got traded at the trade deadline it was for the corpse of Danny Granger and a second round pick -- and that was after he was having a better year in Philly (17.5-6-4 assists? or something like that) than he's likely to have in Boston, as well as being in the tantalizing position of RFA, so Indiana could keep him at all odds if they cared to.

Of course, it turned out that he was one of the two primary factors in the total dissolution of the Pacers (depending on which rumors you believe), and wasn't a meaningful contributor to a team that was aiming at the ECF.

So, I'm not sure that what you're saying has a very strong basis in reality.

 Also worth noting: the 76ers tried to get a first round pick in exchange for him forever... and they settled for the deceased Mr. Granger and a second-rounder.

Zeller was traded for a trade exception, IT was traded an expiring Marcus Thornton and a late 2016 1st, David Lee was traded for Gerald Wallace... that list could go on forever. What happened in the past doesn't mean that will be their trade value next time. On top of that it is clear that ET has had his best season in the NBA with the Celtics and is on an expiring contract. Both those things increase his trade value.

In what universe did Turner have a better year last season than the season prior? Are we only looking at his two assist-per-game uptick? His arguable shooting (which has never been a strength?) Or perhaps we didn't pay much attention to Turner prior to his tenure with the Celtics. That is much more likely.


Quote
Last season Turner was one of our most clutch, most consistent, highest level players. It just baffles me that people would trade that for 2 second rounders. I don't buy the arguments about blocking growth. Even if you bench him until an injury comes along he's better value than some of the others.

Our team sucked last season. We sucked to varying degrees throughout the season, but we were always that: a sucky team that sucked less towards the end of the year, sure, but then we doubled down on the suck during the postseason. The fact that Turner was one of the best players on a bad team does not mean that he was, in any way, a good player. When he is on bad teams, he puts up empty numbers, and when he is on good teams he doesn't play (as evidenced by his stint in Indiana -- a situation that should have been perfect for him, as the team was in desperate need of a secondary ball handler).

I would prefer that the Celtics attempt to become a good team. Playing Evan Turner is not a way for them do to that.

This seems like an overreaction D.o.s. You know that last season should really be split in two and when given the keys to the offense, Turner excelled and the Cs did better as a whole. His stats in Philly were certainly more empty because the team sucked, but even they had one very good season with Turner playing a significant role.

I am not saying Turner is our savior or a permanent fixture in the Boston starting line-up, but he performed well and he deserves credit for that.

As for his time in Indy, I thought it was pretty official that Lance was just an apparent ****.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 01:32:53 PM by jambr380 »

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2015, 01:34:45 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Nope, no way. He has the most tradeable contract on our team. People often say "We should keep X for now because their value will increase at the trade deadline" Of all those players, ET will see the biggest increase in value. He'd be a perfect compliment to a lot of contending teams at the deadline.

Except that the last time he got traded at the trade deadline it was for the corpse of Danny Granger and a second round pick -- and that was after he was having a better year in Philly (17.5-6-4 assists? or something like that) than he's likely to have in Boston, as well as being in the tantalizing position of RFA, so Indiana could keep him at all odds if they cared to.

Of course, it turned out that he was one of the two primary factors in the total dissolution of the Pacers (depending on which rumors you believe), and wasn't a meaningful contributor to a team that was aiming at the ECF.

So, I'm not sure that what you're saying has a very strong basis in reality.

 Also worth noting: the 76ers tried to get a first round pick in exchange for him forever... and they settled for the deceased Mr. Granger and a second-rounder.

Zeller was traded for a trade exception, IT was traded an expiring Marcus Thornton and a late 2016 1st, David Lee was traded for Gerald Wallace... that list could go on forever. What happened in the past doesn't mean that will be their trade value next time. On top of that it is clear that ET has had his best season in the NBA with the Celtics and is on an expiring contract. Both those things increase his trade value.

Last season Turner was one of our most clutch, most consistent, highest level players. It just baffles me that people would trade that for 2 second rounders. I don't buy the arguments about blocking growth. Even if you bench him until an injury comes along he's better value than some of the others.

Zeller's one of the last players on this team that will go in a salary dump.  Even backup centers are tough to find in this league, nevermind one's on cheap contracts.

I don't think Danny will salary dump, I think he'll find a trade worth doing. But if he does have to, Zeller is way down on the depth chart and will be a restricted free agent next year. Presumably his salary will increase after that negating your point about a cheap contract. Guys who can go off for a triple double are rare to find as well. Also we do have a gajillion picks we can use to develop a backup big if we need to.

I get its not a simple decision. ET is a great trade chip NOW. But I think he'll be better value in the future. But I just can't get behind the idea that one of our better players gets dumped because "We need to invest in our future", particularly when Danny seems focused on the now as much as the future.
I understand your viewpoint but when I see Turner play, I don't think this guy is our best/second best player and we need to keep him after this year.  I look at a guy similar to Bass -- NBA rotation player that belongs on a better team that can really use what he brings to the table.  He's not in our future plans and we should flip him for a better or equivalent asset if at all possible by the trading deadline if not sooner.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2015, 01:38:32 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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@Jambs: That Pacers team was humming along until Turner showed up and totally failed to produce on the floor or in the locker room, apparently. He seems to be fine in Boston but A) our team sucks and B) he's always had a reputation for being a bit of a jerk.

I think that Turner's numbers during the second half of the year with the Celtics were largely similar to the way he played in Philly: if you give him the ball nine out of every 10 possessions, he'll put up numbers that have about as much weight as a macaron (note: not a macaroon :) ). The problem is that he's certainly not good enough to be given as much time on the ball as he needs to be effective, and off the ball he's about as useful to the Celtics as a comb is to Charlie Vilanueva.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2015, 02:01:47 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I understand your viewpoint but when I see Turner play, I don't think this guy is our best/second best player and we need to keep him after this year.  I look at a guy similar to Bass -- NBA rotation player that belongs on a better team that can really use what he brings to the table.  He's not in our future plans and we should flip him for a better or equivalent asset if at all possible by the trading deadline if not sooner.

I think that's a fair assessment. He isn't going to carry our team through the playoffs. I think he could be part if the future but that is dependent on our direction. On your point about bass I agree. In fact that was kind of my original point, I think a contender could be interested at the deadline with a better offer than now. Maybe by that point Smart has shown the pg ability we hope for and Turner is surplus to requirement.

D.o.s. - I think we differ substantially on where we see the C's right now which is fair enough. I'm fully behind the road we're taking and in my eyes we're progressing. But equally I get that some don't agree with that.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2015, 02:50:45 PM »

Offline Pucaccia

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 Would you make the trade.

Absolutely not and I am happy that the majority of people on the poll understand how valuable he is.  He is the reason why we had a solid offense.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2015, 03:11:40 PM »

Offline jambr380

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@Jambs: That Pacers team was humming along until Turner showed up and totally failed to produce on the floor or in the locker room, apparently. He seems to be fine in Boston but A) our team sucks and B) he's always had a reputation for being a bit of a jerk.

I think that Turner's numbers during the second half of the year with the Celtics were largely similar to the way he played in Philly: if you give him the ball nine out of every 10 possessions, he'll put up numbers that have about as much weight as a macaron (note: not a macaroon :) ). The problem is that he's certainly not good enough to be given as much time on the ball as he needs to be effective, and off the ball he's about as useful to the Celtics as a comb is to Charlie Vilanueva.

TP for the macaroon joke. I get it, Turner isn't awesome, but he is effective and could be even more useful for a 2nd unit in need of versatility (or a spot-starter). Our roster is frustrating because we have one too many players and all have a case for staying. Turner is young enough that if he were willing to stay on at a salary similar to what he is getting now, I don't know how you say 'no'.

I totally agree that he needs to learn to play off the ball better, although last year we totally needed him as a facilitator. If Smart is still not ready for that role, then I am not sure what the plan is with no Turner there to save him.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2015, 03:51:45 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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I totally agree that he needs to learn to play off the ball better, although last year we totally needed him as a facilitator. If Smart is still not ready for that role, then I am not sure what the plan is with no Turner there to save him.

I think the plan is Terry Rozier?   ;)
But seriously, in terms of players we could trade.  Turner is a candidate, however he does offer a lot of versatility that Stevens can use.  He can score, penetrate, and assist.  A bit of a ball dominant player, but if he is making plays, then why not?

If Smart and Rozier are looking like starters by the TDL by all means move Turner, but until then who will facilitate the ball and handle?  Definitely not AB.

If we can move Turner+ for a 1st or future 1st round pick, I think that would be acceptable, although leave us thin in the ball-handling department.  Maybe the best move is just to trade PJIII.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2015, 03:58:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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@Jambs: That Pacers team was humming along until Turner showed up and totally failed to produce on the floor or in the locker room, apparently. He seems to be fine in Boston but A) our team sucks and B) he's always had a reputation for being a bit of a jerk.

I think that Turner's numbers during the second half of the year with the Celtics were largely similar to the way he played in Philly: if you give him the ball nine out of every 10 possessions, he'll put up numbers that have about as much weight as a macaron (note: not a macaroon :) ). The problem is that he's certainly not good enough to be given as much time on the ball as he needs to be effective, and off the ball he's about as useful to the Celtics as a comb is to Charlie Vilanueva.

Now I want a macaron.
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Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2015, 04:13:20 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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@Jambs: That Pacers team was humming along until Turner showed up and totally failed to produce on the floor or in the locker room, apparently. He seems to be fine in Boston but A) our team sucks and B) he's always had a reputation for being a bit of a jerk.

I think that Turner's numbers during the second half of the year with the Celtics were largely similar to the way he played in Philly: if you give him the ball nine out of every 10 possessions, he'll put up numbers that have about as much weight as a macaron (note: not a macaroon :) ). The problem is that he's certainly not good enough to be given as much time on the ball as he needs to be effective, and off the ball he's about as useful to the Celtics as a comb is to Charlie Vilanueva.

I agree that that Turner in Indy did not work out at all, but their season was spiraling out of control even before they acquired Turner. Turner didn't help, but he wasn't the reason why everything went wrong for the Pacers.

Re: Poll: Would you Trade Evan for two second rounders
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2015, 04:19:41 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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What team is going to want Turner if say we hypothetically trade him? The only team I can think of is the Jazz. Who else would want him?