Rumor: Sully and Jones for Morris

[Granath]

It'll be fun when people turn on David Lee a month or so into the season when he's getting more minutes than Bass did and Sully and / or Olynyk are sitting on the bench waving towels.


(It was made explicit before Lee was traded that the Warriors were looking to send him someplace he would have a significant role; undoubtedly Lee's agent made sure that would be the case in Boston before signing off on the trade; the Warriors were not required to find a good situation for Lee, but teams care about relationships with agents, so they most assuredly did)

The guy played 904 minutes last year. If he played Kelly Olynyk's minutes from 2014 (with Olynyk not playing about 20 games) that's 50% more than he played last year.

I think he'll have a significant role but I sincerely doubt he's getting more than 24 minutes per game. He may get more minutes than KO and that's the way it goes. If he gets more minutes than Sully? Then Sully is either hurt again or a total bust. Either way, I'm not going to hate on David Lee for that and I doubt anyone else will. Why would you think that people would "hate" on Lee if he's earned the starting job?

[D.o.s.]

He played 904 minutes because he got injured and lost his starting gig to Draymond Green.

The season prior he logged over 2200 minutes -- much more in line with his career average. He's also in Boston, as alluded to above, because he wanted a greater role to reestablish his value around the league. With all that in mind, the notion that he'll be playing closer to 900 minutes than 2000 seems more than a little misguided, and that's before you get to the idea that he is better at basketball than either Sully or Olynyk -- his main competitors for minutes, to my mind.

[PutItInTheAir]

why is everybody for a headcase, beating people up at the gym, trade demanding morris when the Cs already have like 5 PF.....

[Celtics18]

It depends whether or not you're going into the season with the expectation that Stevens is playing a roster designed to win games.

The alternative being a team that is focused on developing the rookies/young talent.

As it stands I'm fairly certain that playing David Lee 28 minutes per game is a better way to win games than giving that time to any of our other bigs.

And also we had a stretch five on our roster a few years ago -- that was Sheed. Sure, he might have just stopped at the three point line instead of even trying to get into position down low during the regular season... but that's a stretch 5, eh?

How could I forget about 'Sheed?

You may be right about Lee.  It just doesn't seem like it's Brad's MO to play big minutes to a few guys with a shortened bench.  Last year he showed a propensity for playing everybody and not giving huge minutes to anybody.

I suspect we'll see more of the same this year.  I think it will once again be a team that relies on bench strength and a myriad of different, varied lineups in an effort to mix things up.

I may be wrong, but that's what I'm expecting to see. 

[number_n9ne]

Can he play SF, or is that his brother?

[D.o.s.]

It depends whether or not you're going into the season with the expectation that Stevens is playing a roster designed to win games.

The alternative being a team that is focused on developing the rookies/young talent.

As it stands I'm fairly certain that playing David Lee 28 minutes per game is a better way to win games than giving that time to any of our other bigs.

And also we had a stretch five on our roster a few years ago -- that was Sheed. Sure, he might have just stopped at the three point line instead of even trying to get into position down low during the regular season... but that's a stretch 5, eh?

How could I forget about 'Sheed?

You may be right about Lee.  It just doesn't seem like it's Brad's MO to play big minutes to a few guys with a shortened bench.  Last year he showed a propensity for playing everybody and not giving huge minutes to anybody.

I suspect we'll see more of the same this year.  I think it will once again be a team that relies on bench strength and a myriad of different, varied lineups in an effort to mix things up.

I may be wrong, but that's what I'm expecting to see.

Yeah I think you're right, but I also don't think 28 minutes is 'big minutes' for a guy who's probably going to be playing the 4 and the 5.

[Granath]

He played 904 minutes because he got injured and lost his starting gig to Draymond Green.

The season prior he logged over 2200 minutes -- much more in line with his career average. He's also in Boston, as alluded to above, because he wanted a greater role to reestablish his value around the league. With all that in mind, the notion that he'll be playing closer to 900 minutes than 2000 seems more than a little misguided, and that's before you get to the idea that he is better at basketball than either Sully or Olynyk -- his main competitors for minutes, to my mind.

Some people on this board have a hard time understanding that Father Time stands still for no one.

I don't have the idea that he's better than Sullinger. He WAS better than Sullinger. He's 32 and coming off injury. We have no idea what his talent and physical levels are now. He may be better than Sully. He may be totally washed up. He may be like post-injury Rondo and moderately capable but not what he once was. The latter is the most likely scenario.

He's an expiring contract, 32 year old who averaged 8/5 last year and was a healthy scratch during the playoffs and who is considered greatly overpaid. He simply doesn't have the leverage to dictate his minutes. He didn't have a no-trade clause. His cap penalty was enormous on the Warriors. He was getting moved regardless and didn't have a choice. He doesn't get to dictate his minutes and to think otherwise is laughable. If he ends up starting and plays 2,200 minutes I'm more happy with that. It means he's back to where he was and is contributing greatly to the team. But he's not coming in as the definitive starter nor is he going to be handed 2,000 minutes for the season because his claim to fame is that he was an All-Star. That's a laughable scenario.

[Celtics18]

It depends whether or not you're going into the season with the expectation that Stevens is playing a roster designed to win games.

The alternative being a team that is focused on developing the rookies/young talent.

As it stands I'm fairly certain that playing David Lee 28 minutes per game is a better way to win games than giving that time to any of our other bigs.

And also we had a stretch five on our roster a few years ago -- that was Sheed. Sure, he might have just stopped at the three point line instead of even trying to get into position down low during the regular season... but that's a stretch 5, eh?

How could I forget about 'Sheed?

You may be right about Lee.  It just doesn't seem like it's Brad's MO to play big minutes to a few guys with a shortened bench.  Last year he showed a propensity for playing everybody and not giving huge minutes to anybody.

I suspect we'll see more of the same this year.  I think it will once again be a team that relies on bench strength and a myriad of different, varied lineups in an effort to mix things up.

I may be wrong, but that's what I'm expecting to see.

Yeah I think you're right, but I also don't think 28 minutes is 'big minutes' for a guy who's probably going to be playing the 4 and the 5.

I think he'll probably play some 5 as Stevens likes to play a bunch of small ball, but I think his minutes at center will be sporadic at best.

You're right that 28 MPG isn't exactly "big minutes," but I still think it's more than David Lee will be getting next season. 

If both Lee and Johnson are getting 28 minutes, one of Sully, Zeller, and Olynyk will have to fall completely out of the rotation.

I don't see that happening. 

[PhoSita]

All I can say is I think you're telling yourself a story to avoid being disappointed by the idea that one of the young guys will have to be sitting on the bench.

Stevens has repeatedly stated his preference for a 4 big rotation, and that's not even taking into account the fact that the team will probably go small fairly often.

I don't expect to see 4 of the bigs averaging more than 20 minutes a night, let alone 5 of them.

[Celtics18]

All I can say is I think you're telling yourself a story to avoid being disappointed by the idea that one of the young guys will have to be sitting on the bench.

Stevens has repeatedly stated his preference for a 4 big rotation, and that's not even taking into account the fact that the team will probably go small fairly often.

I don't expect to see 4 of the bigs averaging more than 20 minutes a night, let alone 5 of them.

You might be right.  It may be a complete rationalization owing to the fact that I really don't want to see any of our promising youngsters fall out of the rotation in favor of a couple of thirty-something year old journeymen vets.

I really don't. 

If that does happen, I particularly don't want it to be Kelly who's out. 

[Celtics18]

He played 904 minutes because he got injured and lost his starting gig to Draymond Green.

The season prior he logged over 2200 minutes -- much more in line with his career average. He's also in Boston, as alluded to above, because he wanted a greater role to reestablish his value around the league. With all that in mind, the notion that he'll be playing closer to 900 minutes than 2000 seems more than a little misguided, and that's before you get to the idea that he is better at basketball than either Sully or Olynyk -- his main competitors for minutes, to my mind.

Some people on this board have a hard time understanding that Father Time stands still for no one.

I don't have the idea that he's better than Sullinger. He WAS better than Sullinger. He's 32 and coming off injury. We have no idea what his talent and physical levels are now. He may be better than Sully. He may be totally washed up. He may be like post-injury Rondo and moderately capable but not what he once was. The latter is the most likely scenario.

He's an expiring contract, 32 year old who averaged 8/5 last year and was a healthy scratch during the playoffs and who is considered greatly overpaid. He simply doesn't have the leverage to dictate his minutes. He didn't have a no-trade clause. His cap penalty was enormous on the Warriors. He was getting moved regardless and didn't have a choice. He doesn't get to dictate his minutes and to think otherwise is laughable. If he ends up starting and plays 2,200 minutes I'm more happy with that. It means he's back to where he was and is contributing greatly to the team. But he's not coming in as the definitive starter nor is he going to be handed 2,000 minutes for the season because his claim to fame is that he was an All-Star. That's a laughable scenario.

I agree with the sentiment that I don't think David Lee is automatically pencilled in as a starter due to his former years as an All Star.

I think Brad will evaluate the roster during training camp and pre-season and give the minutes to those players who he thinks will best help the team succeed on the court.

I'm pulling for Kelly Olynyk, in particular, to be one of the guys who earns a significant spot in the rotation based on the fact that I have really grown to like the diversity of his game (and, full disclosure, he happens to play for my DKC Seventy-Sixers).

It seems to me that many believe that next year's rotation is already set in stone here in mid-August.  I don't buy that line of thinking. 

[D.o.s.]

He played 904 minutes because he got injured and lost his starting gig to Draymond Green.

The season prior he logged over 2200 minutes -- much more in line with his career average. He's also in Boston, as alluded to above, because he wanted a greater role to reestablish his value around the league. With all that in mind, the notion that he'll be playing closer to 900 minutes than 2000 seems more than a little misguided, and that's before you get to the idea that he is better at basketball than either Sully or Olynyk -- his main competitors for minutes, to my mind.

Some people on this board have a hard time understanding that Father Time stands still for no one.

I don't have the idea that he's better than Sullinger. He WAS better than Sullinger. He's 32 and coming off injury. We have no idea what his talent and physical levels are now. He may be better than Sully. He may be totally washed up. He may be like post-injury Rondo and moderately capable but not what he once was. The latter is the most likely scenario.

He's an expiring contract, 32 year old who averaged 8/5 last year and was a healthy scratch during the playoffs and who is considered greatly overpaid. He simply doesn't have the leverage to dictate his minutes. He didn't have a no-trade clause. His cap penalty was enormous on the Warriors. He was getting moved regardless and didn't have a choice. He doesn't get to dictate his minutes and to think otherwise is laughable. If he ends up starting and plays 2,200 minutes I'm more happy with that. It means he's back to where he was and is contributing greatly to the team. But he's not coming in as the definitive starter nor is he going to be handed 2,000 minutes for the season because his claim to fame is that he was an All-Star. That's a laughable scenario.

No one's saying that he's dictating his minutes -- the point is that using his 904 minute season as basis for your idea of what he'll play for us next season is problematic for reasons previously described. I already typed that, but I'll retierate because your last two sentences (bolded for your pleasure) indicate a pretty serious misunderstanding of what I wrote.

the notion that he'll be playing closer to 900 minutes than 2000 seems more than a little misguided

[PhoSita]

David Lee won't be "handed" a starting spot, but at the same time, he would not have been traded here if his agent hadn't been given some kind of assurance that the starting spot was more or less his to lose.  If not the starting spot, then very significant minutes (28-30+). 

Lee was traded here so he could rehab his value prior to hitting the free agent market next summer.  No way the deal gets done unless there is the understanding that he'll be given the chance to do that.

[Celtics18]

David Lee won't be "handed" a starting spot, but at the same time, he would not have been traded here if his agent hadn't been given some kind of assurance that the starting spot was more or less his to lose.  If not the starting spot, then very significant minutes (28-30+). 

Lee was traded here so he could rehab his value prior to hitting the free agent market next summer.  No way the deal gets done unless there is the understanding that he'll be given the chance to do that.

Not buying that at all.  I don't think there's any way that Danny gave assurances to David Lee or his agent that the starting spot (or 28+ minutes) was his to lose.

I mean, c'mon, the Warriors traded him for Gerald "Once Was" Wallace.  I know the narrative is that the Warriors did this completely as a favor to Lee, but it doesn't seem like the Lee team was exactly sitting in a huge position of strength here.  GSW obviously felt like $5Million extra in cap space was more valuable to them than another year of David Lee.

He's got a nice opportunity to gain some valuable minutes on a team with a young, relatively inexperienced front court, but to think that guarantees were made about how many minutes he would get seems farfetched. 

It's not likely David Lee had the choice of going anywhere he wanted. 

He was traded after all.  He wasn't a free agent. 

[Granath]

No one's saying that he's dictating his minutes -- the point is that using his 904 minute season as basis for your idea of what he'll play for us next season is problematic for reasons previously described. I already typed that, but I'll retierate because your last two sentences (bolded for your pleasure) indicate a pretty serious misunderstanding of what I wrote.

the notion that he'll be playing closer to 900 minutes than 2000 seems more than a little misguided

Yet the number I chose - KOs minutes from last season (1423) - is almost exactly in between those two.