Rumor: Sully and Jones for Morris

[Rondo9]

Contract? Nope. Morris costs $8m/year. Sullinger is on the hook for $2.3m this year and a qualifying offer of $3.3 next year. If Sullinger goes for more than $8 on the open market it's because he earned it this year (and therefore be the superior player).

I think what you're missing here is that guys who "earned" a contract around $8 million (e.g. what Markieff is making for the next few years) are going to be getting $14-16 million on the open market next summer.


True Shooting for the last two years:

Sully - 49.7, 50.3
Markieff - 56.4, 52.3



It's been really interesting to me over the last few days seeing how high people's expectations still are for Sully.   I loved him as a rookie, but I think it's become clear why he fell in the draft.  He's missed a ton of games and he's never really been able to put it together enough to carve out a starting role and score the way I hoped he would.

Also, if you're talking about character, I've honestly never been particularly impressed with Sullinger.  Doesn't seem to take things as seriously as I'd like to see.  In any case, I'm not worried too much about character as a matter of roster construction.  The team identity will flow from whoever our star players are, and we don't know who those guys will be yet.  The star sets the tone.

His back is why he fell and despite his weight issues he still averaged 13 and 8 with a per 36 of 18 and 10 I don't understand why you want Morris for Sullinger when it's debatable that he's even better than sulliger it's a marginal upgrade at best and Morris rebounding is poor

[Cman]

Markieff Morris is ok, but if we're moving Sullinger we should be getting an obvious upgrade or filling a position of need.

I think if you take contract, health, and scoring efficiency into consideration, Markieff is an obvious upgrade over Sullinger.

I don't think we're going to get any huge asset in return for trading Sully.  Also not really confident in his ability to turn into a 30 minute a night regular.  Defense, health, and scoring efficiency are really big question marks for him at this point.  I'm definitely not excited to see the team pay 10-14 million per year to keep him next summer, even if he has a relatively good, healthy year.

Efficiency? Morris' career number is .479 and Sulinger is .470. Not much of an upgrade there if any given the different systems they play. Their 2 point percentage was the exact same last year. It's quite reasonable to think that Jared's effectiveness will rise as he matures.

Health? Yep. Morris has the clear advantage.

Contract? Nope. Morris costs $8m/year. Sullinger is on the hook for $2.3m this year and a qualifying offer of $3.3 next year. If Sullinger goes for more than $8 on the open market it's because he earned it this year (and therefore be the superior player). Even if Sully got $10m next year, his 4 year total would be almost exactly Morris' next 4 years.

Then there's Sullingers' advantages / Morris' disadvantages. Morris' attitude. Morris' 15 technical fouls last year. Truthfully, character matters and I don't see Morris having it. He's a problem on and off the court. Then there's the advantages of Sullinger's age and significantly better rebounding. If you're not crazy about resigning Jared, I can understand that. But if he does come back and has "a relatively good, healthy year", he'll be worth far more at the trade deadline than Morris.

Ainge doesn't sell low when there's a decent prospect of increasing the value of an asset later. I think everyone would recognize that Sully's value isn't particularly high right now. If he's planning on trading Sully, it's not going to be for a 26 year old malcontent whose upside is no better than fat Sullinger's.

I like your point about DA not selling low. But he likes to buy low as well. Which is why we are discussing M. Morris. I could see it happening.

[Celtics18]

I could see Sully backing up Lee this year... I could see Morris backing up Lee, too.

Roster is a mess.   Too many power forwards and I generally like most of them.  Lee, Sully, Oly, Amir, and Jonas are all power forwards.   Trading one power forward for an older power forward who might be worse next year?... just seems like a waste of time.

I get that nobody else has been able to wrap their heads around the concept of the "stretch 5" yet.

It is, however, the position Kelly Olynyk plays.  Everybody needs to adjust their minds to that fact. 

[Celtics18]

I'm not sure next season Morris will be an obvious upgrade.  Based on health, weight, attitude, etc it's easy to write off Sullinger.  But are you certain that 23 year old Sully is going to be dramatically worse than 26 year old Morris next season?  I'm not.

For me it's mostly about the fact that I have faith in Markieff's ability to play close to 82 games, average 30 minutes or more, and shoot over 45% from the field while making less than $10 million per year for the next 4 years.

I don't have much confidence that Sully will play more games, more minutes, or shoot better from the field, and I think he'll probably cost more than $10 million per year to keep unless he suffers a major injury or his weight balloons again.

True. But I also have to ask myself who is more likely to average 19 and 9 and a block in 30 something minutes a game for about 75 games a year in the next two years.  I would think it might be Sully. Granted he'd want to be paid, but still. But I'm not throwing James Young and a draft pick on top of it.

I think Sully is more likely to hit those numbers, but we're talking a 5% chance versus a 3% chance, or something like that.   Neither Sully nor Markieff is going to approach 20-10 for a full season.

In today's league, I think a more mobile guy like Markieff is far likelier to get enough minutes to average a Paul Millsap-esque 16 and 8, though.

Markieff Morris wouldn't get thirty minutes a night on the Celtics. 

[LarBrd33]

I could see Sully backing up Lee this year... I could see Morris backing up Lee, too.

Roster is a mess.   Too many power forwards and I generally like most of them.  Lee, Sully, Oly, Amir, and Jonas are all power forwards.   Trading one power forward for an older power forward who might be worse next year?... just seems like a waste of time.

I get that nobody else has been able to wrap their heads around the concept of the "stretch 5" yet.

It is, however, the position Kelly Olynyk plays.  Everybody needs to adjust their minds to that fact.

Seen it. Pretty terrible defensively.  He's a power forward.

Do you consider dirk a stretch 5?

[Celtics18]

I could see Sully backing up Lee this year... I could see Morris backing up Lee, too.

Roster is a mess.   Too many power forwards and I generally like most of them.  Lee, Sully, Oly, Amir, and Jonas are all power forwards.   Trading one power forward for an older power forward who might be worse next year?... just seems like a waste of time.

I get that nobody else has been able to wrap their heads around the concept of the "stretch 5" yet.

It is, however, the position Kelly Olynyk plays.  Everybody needs to adjust their minds to that fact.

Seen it. Pretty terrible defensively.  He's a power forward.

Do you consider dirk a stretch 5?

Nope.  Dirk's a stretch four. 

Kelly was actually fairly good defensively as a center last year. 

I know it goes against common wisdom, but the numbers absolutely back up this observation. 

[PhoSita]

I'm not sure next season Morris will be an obvious upgrade.  Based on health, weight, attitude, etc it's easy to write off Sullinger.  But are you certain that 23 year old Sully is going to be dramatically worse than 26 year old Morris next season?  I'm not.

For me it's mostly about the fact that I have faith in Markieff's ability to play close to 82 games, average 30 minutes or more, and shoot over 45% from the field while making less than $10 million per year for the next 4 years.

I don't have much confidence that Sully will play more games, more minutes, or shoot better from the field, and I think he'll probably cost more than $10 million per year to keep unless he suffers a major injury or his weight balloons again.

True. But I also have to ask myself who is more likely to average 19 and 9 and a block in 30 something minutes a game for about 75 games a year in the next two years.  I would think it might be Sully. Granted he'd want to be paid, but still. But I'm not throwing James Young and a draft pick on top of it.

I think Sully is more likely to hit those numbers, but we're talking a 5% chance versus a 3% chance, or something like that.   Neither Sully nor Markieff is going to approach 20-10 for a full season.

In today's league, I think a more mobile guy like Markieff is far likelier to get enough minutes to average a Paul Millsap-esque 16 and 8, though.

Markieff Morris wouldn't get thirty minutes a night on the Celtics.

I suspect he'd earn more minutes than Sully will this year.

But hey, at least we get to watch 28 minutes per game of David Lee for a year.

[Celtics18]

I'm not sure next season Morris will be an obvious upgrade.  Based on health, weight, attitude, etc it's easy to write off Sullinger.  But are you certain that 23 year old Sully is going to be dramatically worse than 26 year old Morris next season?  I'm not.

For me it's mostly about the fact that I have faith in Markieff's ability to play close to 82 games, average 30 minutes or more, and shoot over 45% from the field while making less than $10 million per year for the next 4 years.

I don't have much confidence that Sully will play more games, more minutes, or shoot better from the field, and I think he'll probably cost more than $10 million per year to keep unless he suffers a major injury or his weight balloons again.

True. But I also have to ask myself who is more likely to average 19 and 9 and a block in 30 something minutes a game for about 75 games a year in the next two years.  I would think it might be Sully. Granted he'd want to be paid, but still. But I'm not throwing James Young and a draft pick on top of it.

I think Sully is more likely to hit those numbers, but we're talking a 5% chance versus a 3% chance, or something like that.   Neither Sully nor Markieff is going to approach 20-10 for a full season.

In today's league, I think a more mobile guy like Markieff is far likelier to get enough minutes to average a Paul Millsap-esque 16 and 8, though.

Markieff Morris wouldn't get thirty minutes a night on the Celtics.

I suspect he'd earn more minutes than Sully will this year.

But hey, at least we get to watch 28 minutes per game of David Lee for a year.

I'll take the under.

[Smartacus]

The Celtics traded multiple All Star Perry Jones III, perennial 6th man of the year contender James Young, a first round pick that turned into Jakob Poeltl and fringe hall of fame candidate Jared Sullinger(Sulley in a hunt for revenge against the team who traded him, slims down to his ideal playing weight and starts putting up Kevin love numbers torching the Celtics for a career average of 30 point 15 rebound against Boston) for Markieff "freaking" Morris? What were they thinking?

God bless Celtics blog.   That's all I can say.   This place is priceless.

given the boatload of intrepidation above in "fear red", i would be afraid to have danny ever again make any sort of personnel move. what if the celtics actually lose a trade of let a good player go? whoa, whoa, whoa!!! 

yes, managing through fear of making a mistake is an excellent way to steer the good-ship-celtics into a bright and lovely future.

You'll have to excuse me everyone, I've never had a chance to use the "fear red" font before and the apocalyptic Danny trades away the future scenario seemed to good an opportunity as any.

Joking of course, fully trust Danny's ability to bring back value in a trade.

[LilRip]

seems like a pretty lateral move unless we're getting a pick or something. i'd rather keep PJIII though.

[Granath]

But hey, at least we get to watch 28 minutes per game of David Lee for a year.

Want to make a wager on that?

I'll be surprised if Lee gets the same number of minutes Brandon Bass got last year.

[PhoSita]

It'll be fun when people turn on David Lee a month or so into the season when he's getting more minutes than Bass did and Sully and / or Olynyk are sitting on the bench waving towels.


(It was made explicit before Lee was traded that the Warriors were looking to send him someplace he would have a significant role; undoubtedly Lee's agent made sure that would be the case in Boston before signing off on the trade; the Warriors were not required to find a good situation for Lee, but teams care about relationships with agents, so they most assuredly did)

[Celtics4ever]

It'll be fun when people turn on David Lee a month or so into the season when he's getting more minutes than Bass did and Sully and / or Olynyk are sitting on the bench waving towels.

I would be elated.  Thought I have reservations about Lee's defense, he can't be a worse athlete than these two.

[Celtics18]

It'll be fun when people turn on David Lee a month or so into the season when he's getting more minutes than Bass did and Sully and / or Olynyk are sitting on the bench waving towels.


(It was made explicit before Lee was traded that the Warriors were looking to send him someplace he would have a significant role; undoubtedly Lee's agent made sure that would be the case in Boston before signing off on the trade; the Warriors were not required to find a good situation for Lee, but teams care about relationships with agents, so they most assuredly did)

I just don't think he'll get 28+ minutes per game.  I know he was looking for a situation with a bigger role.  I think a bigger role will mean something more in the range of 18 to 22 minutes.  If I'm wrong, though, I don't plan to turn on anyone.  Instead, I'll root for him to play well.

[D.o.s.]

It depends whether or not you're going into the season with the expectation that Stevens is playing a roster designed to win games.

The alternative being a team that is focused on developing the rookies/young talent.

As it stands I'm fairly certain that playing David Lee 28 minutes per game is a better way to win games than giving that time to any of our other bigs.

And also we had a stretch five on our roster a few years ago -- that was Sheed. Sure, he might have just stopped at the three point line instead of even trying to get into position down low during the regular season... but that's a stretch 5, eh?