Author Topic: If we don't make the 2016 playoffs, should we think about going even younger?  (Read 88016 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
I'm not saying this will happen, or that it's likely to happen, but it's not implausible:

- The Celts extend Tyler Zeller for 5 years / $50 million.

- Danny opts not to make a significant trade during the regular season, preferring to preserve cap flexibility.

- The team ends up with one pick in the back half of the top 10 and two picks in the middle of the 1st round.

- The team trades one, two, or all three of Isaiah Thomas, Kelly Olynyk and Avery Bradley along with one or two picks to move up in the draft. The team drafts three or more players who all stand to vie for playing time at the 3, 4, and 5.

- David Lee, Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, and Evan Turner all leave in free agency next summer.

- After a fairly strong season that nonetheless leaves significant concerns about his future, Jared Sullinger gets an offer in excess of $58 million from another team.  The Celts choose not to match.


With all that, the team a year from now could be comprised of:

Smart
Crowder
Rozier
Hunter
Young
Mickey
Zeller
Rookie #1
Rookie #2
Rookie #3

Throw in a couple of short-term make-good deals like what the Celts gave to Jerebko and Amir Johnson this summer.  Example -- Eric Gordon and Roy Hibbert.

It's not so crazy to think the team could be pretty bad in the following season, even though things would look pretty bright for the future if they're developing Smart, Hunter, Young, and Mickey, while integrating a couple of top 10 picks from the 2016 draft.


This type of scenario is actually a silver lining for me.  No matter how much the Celts seem to be invested in trying to be a respectable middle of the road team this season, the potential is still there to take a step back next summer and focus on developing young talent, provided they get some luck with the Nets and Mavs pick and perhaps find a trade partner higher in the lottery.

yep this is the crux of what I've been saying.
With all these picks and young guys at some point after Durant has made his decision clear, then we'll have a very plausible option of waiving the white towel.
Durant coming over to the Eastern Conference would give us more of a reason to go into heavy development mode.
Getting past Washington with Durant, Cleveland with Lebron and teams like the 76ers, Magic, Knicks with Carmelo and Porzingris (assuming he gets better) will make the East a playoff fodder nightmare for us.

I think missing out on Winslow this year may be a key factor in us taking this route. He was a potential franchise guy within our range and we lucked out. Now the Heat have Dragic, Winslow, Whiteside which is another young trio we'd have to get past in the playoffs.

I'd actually prefer to avoid getting the Amir+Jerebko 2.0 contracts and just letting Coach Brad try and tame some top 10 lottery talent.
Brandon Ingram, Malik Pope?
Chad Ford says we've been all over Malik Pope since his high school days.
Having our own top 10 picks+Brooklyn's top 10 picks would be a great way to gamble on some draft talent for 2-3 seasons.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182

I'd actually prefer to avoid getting the Amir+Jerebko 2.0 contracts and just letting Coach Brad try and tame some top 10 lottery talent.


Thing is, the Celts might have to sign a couple guys just to hit the salary floor, especially if they were to let Sullinger go instead of matching his deal.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.

I'd actually prefer to avoid getting the Amir+Jerebko 2.0 contracts and just letting Coach Brad try and tame some top 10 lottery talent.


Thing is, the Celts might have to sign a couple guys just to hit the salary floor, especially if they were to let Sullinger go instead of matching his deal.

Or we can take back some large expirings for picks too.

Hit the salary floor and give all the young guys a nice bonus :)
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline BDeCosta26

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1314
  • Tommy Points: 232
I'm not saying this will happen, or that it's likely to happen, but it's not implausible:

- The Celts extend Tyler Zeller for 5 years / $50 million.

- Danny opts not to make a significant trade during the regular season, preferring to preserve cap flexibility.

- The team ends up with one pick in the back half of the top 10 and two picks in the middle of the 1st round.

- The team trades one, two, or all three of Isaiah Thomas, Kelly Olynyk and Avery Bradley along with one or two picks to move up in the draft. The team drafts three or more players who all stand to vie for playing time at the 3, 4, and 5.

- David Lee, Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, and Evan Turner all leave in free agency next summer.

- After a fairly strong season that nonetheless leaves significant concerns about his future, Jared Sullinger gets an offer in excess of $58 million from another team.  The Celts choose not to match.


With all that, the team a year from now could be comprised of:

Smart
Crowder
Rozier
Hunter
Young
Mickey
Zeller
Rookie #1
Rookie #2
Rookie #3

Throw in a couple of short-term make-good deals like what the Celts gave to Jerebko and Amir Johnson this summer.  Example -- Eric Gordon and Roy Hibbert.

It's not so crazy to think the team could be pretty bad in the following season, even though things would look pretty bright for the future if they're developing Smart, Hunter, Young, and Mickey, while integrating a couple of top 10 picks from the 2016 draft.


This type of scenario is actually a silver lining for me.  No matter how much the Celts seem to be invested in trying to be a respectable middle of the road team this season, the potential is still there to take a step back next summer and focus on developing young talent, provided they get some luck with the Nets and Mavs pick and perhaps find a trade partner higher in the lottery.

yep this is the crux of what I've been saying.
With all these picks and young guys at some point after Durant has made his decision clear, then we'll have a very plausible option of waiving the white towel.
Durant coming over to the Eastern Conference would give us more of a reason to go into heavy development mode.
Getting past Washington with Durant, Cleveland with Lebron and teams like the 76ers, Magic, Knicks with Carmelo and Porzingris (assuming he gets better) will make the East a playoff fodder nightmare for us.

I think missing out on Winslow this year may be a key factor in us taking this route. He was a potential franchise guy within our range and we lucked out. Now the Heat have Dragic, Winslow, Whiteside which is another young trio we'd have to get past in the playoffs.

I'd actually prefer to avoid getting the Amir+Jerebko 2.0 contracts and just letting Coach Brad try and tame some top 10 lottery talent.
Brandon Ingram, Malik Pope?
Chad Ford says we've been all over Malik Pope since his high school days.
Having our own top 10 picks+Brooklyn's top 10 picks would be a great way to gamble on some draft talent for 2-3 seasons.

I like Winslow as a player and would've been happy to get him, but lamenting over the playoff run for his sake is awful premature. Besides, no one ever thought our team was sniffing the playoffs after the Rondo/Green trades. It's not like Ainge didn't try for a higher draft pick. The only way we were getting Winslow or someone like him would be by purposely losing games. That's not worth upsetting Stevens.

Plus, do you really think teams like the Knicks or 76ers are gonna make it hard for us to make the playoffs in the next 2-3 years? Anything is possible I guess, but Philly isn't going to be competing for a playoff spot for at least that long. They don't have anywhere near enough talent to make a playoff push. I really like Noel for what he is, I think Okafor has star potential, but one good role player and a developing potential star on a team of D-leaguers plus a couple more rookies isn't enough to get them to the playoffs.

Regardless, the thing I think is totally overlooked when people talk about our current rebuild is the flexibility Ainge has managed to accrue. Basketball is a funny sport. Crazy things happen all the time. If your not a contender, being able to pursue any and all paths to contendership is a smart play. We have the cap space to pursue FA's and a team/coach they might actually consider going to, we have trade assets out the wazoo and draft assets that look like we might be able to get a few lottery picks while playing in the playoffs. That flexibility is a huge asset. Part of the reason is because, should things not go well for us this year, we have the ability to go for a total youth movement and add a few lottery picks to our young core.

I think it would take a certain set of circumstances to see it happen (We fall out of the playoff picture, young guys regress, we get trades that are too good to pass up, etc.) but I think it's totally possible. I like our chances this year and I think this team could even win 50 games if all goes right. But if that doesn't work out, which could totally happen, I can see us going right back into development mode. I'm glad we have that flexibility. If we end up in the lottery and those Brooklyn and Dallas picks fall our way we could add three top 15 talents to our already fairly large core. That's a great option to have.

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182

I'd actually prefer to avoid getting the Amir+Jerebko 2.0 contracts and just letting Coach Brad try and tame some top 10 lottery talent.


Thing is, the Celts might have to sign a couple guys just to hit the salary floor, especially if they were to let Sullinger go instead of matching his deal.

Or we can take back some large expirings for picks too.

Hit the salary floor and give all the young guys a nice bonus :)

Heh.

There's no way in heck Danny "Assets" Ainge would ever do that, if there's a way to use the money to acquire value.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline Future Celtics Owner

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3097
  • Tommy Points: 191
  • Celtic's only raise championship Banners

I'd actually prefer to avoid getting the Amir+Jerebko 2.0 contracts and just letting Coach Brad try and tame some top 10 lottery talent.


Thing is, the Celts might have to sign a couple guys just to hit the salary floor, especially if they were to let Sullinger go instead of matching his deal.

Or we can take back some large expirings for picks too.

Hit the salary floor and give all the young guys a nice bonus :)

Heh.

There's no way in heck Danny "Assets" Ainge would ever do that, if there's a way to use the money to acquire value.
At least we agree we need to stick to a plan of development and asset gathering by using our cap space to get the Marcus thorntons and picks. But most importantly the lottery and adding some studs on this team.

Is the Memphis pick more likely to be in 2018?

Offline Future Celtics Owner

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3097
  • Tommy Points: 191
  • Celtic's only raise championship Banners
I'm not saying this will happen, or that it's likely to happen, but it's not implausible:

- The Celts extend Tyler Zeller for 5 years / $50 million.

- Danny opts not to make a significant trade during the regular season, preferring to preserve cap flexibility.

- The team ends up with one pick in the back half of the top 10 and two picks in the middle of the 1st round.

- The team trades one, two, or all three of Isaiah Thomas, Kelly Olynyk and Avery Bradley along with one or two picks to move up in the draft. The team drafts three or more players who all stand to vie for playing time at the 3, 4, and 5.

- David Lee, Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, and Evan Turner all leave in free agency next summer.

- After a fairly strong season that nonetheless leaves significant concerns about his future, Jared Sullinger gets an offer in excess of $58 million from another team.  The Celts choose not to match.


With all that, the team a year from now could be comprised of:

Smart
Crowder
Rozier
Hunter
Young
Mickey
Zeller
Rookie #1
Rookie #2
Rookie #3

Throw in a couple of short-term make-good deals like what the Celts gave to Jerebko and Amir Johnson this summer.  Example -- Eric Gordon and Roy Hibbert.

It's not so crazy to think the team could be pretty bad in the following season, even though things would look pretty bright for the future if they're developing Smart, Hunter, Young, and Mickey, while integrating a couple of top 10 picks from the 2016 draft.


This type of scenario is actually a silver lining for me.  No matter how much the Celts seem to be invested in trying to be a respectable middle of the road team this season, the potential is still there to take a step back next summer and focus on developing young talent, provided they get some luck with the Nets and Mavs pick and perhaps find a trade partner higher in the lottery.

yep this is the crux of what I've been saying.
With all these picks and young guys at some point after Durant has made his decision clear, then we'll have a very plausible option of waiving the white towel.
Durant coming over to the Eastern Conference would give us more of a reason to go into heavy development mode.
Getting past Washington with Durant, Cleveland with Lebron and teams like the 76ers, Magic, Knicks with Carmelo and Porzingris (assuming he gets better) will make the East a playoff fodder nightmare for us.

I think missing out on Winslow this year may be a key factor in us taking this route. He was a potential franchise guy within our range and we lucked out. Now the Heat have Dragic, Winslow, Whiteside which is another young trio we'd have to get past in the playoffs.

I'd actually prefer to avoid getting the Amir+Jerebko 2.0 contracts and just letting Coach Brad try and tame some top 10 lottery talent.
Brandon Ingram, Malik Pope?
Chad Ford says we've been all over Malik Pope since his high school days.
Having our own top 10 picks+Brooklyn's top 10 picks would be a great way to gamble on some draft talent for 2-3 seasons.

I like Winslow as a player and would've been happy to get him, but lamenting over the playoff run for his sake is awful premature. Besides, no one ever thought our team was sniffing the playoffs after the Rondo/Green trades. It's not like Ainge didn't try for a higher draft pick. The only way we were getting Winslow or someone like him would be by purposely losing games. That's not worth upsetting Stevens.

Plus, do you really think teams like the Knicks or 76ers are gonna make it hard for us to make the playoffs in the next 2-3 years? Anything is possible I guess, but Philly isn't going to be competing for a playoff spot for at least that long. They don't have anywhere near enough talent to make a playoff push. I really like Noel for what he is, I think Okafor has star potential, but one good role player and a developing potential star on a team of D-leaguers plus a couple more rookies isn't enough to get them to the playoffs.

Regardless, the thing I think is totally overlooked when people talk about our current rebuild is the flexibility Ainge has managed to accrue. Basketball is a funny sport. Crazy things happen all the time. If your not a contender, being able to pursue any and all paths to contendership is a smart play. We have the cap space to pursue FA's and a team/coach they might actually consider going to, we have trade assets out the wazoo and draft assets that look like we might be able to get a few lottery picks while playing in the playoffs. That flexibility is a huge asset. Part of the reason is because, should things not go well for us this year, we have the ability to go for a total youth movement and add a few lottery picks to our young core.

I think it would take a certain set of circumstances to see it happen (We fall out of the playoff picture, young guys regress, we get trades that are too good to pass up, etc.) but I think it's totally possible. I like our chances this year and I think this team could even win 50 games if all goes right. But if that doesn't work out, which could totally happen, I can see us going right back into development mode. I'm glad we have that flexibility. If we end up in the lottery and those Brooklyn and Dallas picks fall our way we could add three top 15 talents to our already fairly large core. That's a great option to have.
Chambers and kid Pho Pho are making way too much sense to me. Id like to add my vision of how this plays out: We get a top pick along with BKN this year and Dallas gets the 10th pick (also if Minny makes it past 12 we get their 1st, but they would be smart to suck and draft a sf).

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
In a word, no.

Perpetual rebuilding doesn't work, and it's not what this franchise is all about.

It is time for Ainge to put up or step aside.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
No reason to trade young players for more draft picks. 


The Celtics are loaded with picks.   



The Celtics need to make moves that get them closer to adding a star.

Finally. Someone who gets it.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
In a word, no.

Perpetual rebuilding doesn't work, and it's not what this franchise is all about.

It is time for Ainge to put up or step aside.


As always, I'm eager to hear your ideas on what that actually looks like.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
Zeller is older than both Sully and KO and has a full season over KO. Now up to be paid ridiculous money when he isn't better than either of them. I can see shipping out Sully for other reasons but you are talking about getting younger, how is it that Zeller stays?
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Zeller is older than both Sully and KO and has a full season over KO. Now up to be paid ridiculous money when he isn't better than either of them. I can see shipping out Sully for other reasons but you are talking about getting younger, how is it that Zeller stays?

Zeller is more durable and reliable, and plays a position with a lot of talent scarcity.

Sullinger and Olynyk are redundant and hurt the team defensively.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
In a word, no.

Perpetual rebuilding doesn't work, and it's not what this franchise is all about.

It is time for Ainge to put up or step aside.

so perpetual mediocrity is acceptable as long as we're fighting for a playoff spot?

If you're going to make statements like this, please elaborate on how we'll get multiple top 20 NBA players on our team, whilst beating Lebron, Durant, Clippers, Rockets, GSW etc for the next 6 or 7 years. What is your plan?

At least have the decency to explain how we'll get a championship contender.

What is your method? To wait for the next Kevin Love and then watch him get traded away to a better team?

You say that perpetual rebuilding is not what this franchise is about.
You're 100% right. This franchise is about winning championships and hanging banners in the rafters- not scraping for a 4th or 5th seed in the playoffs and hoping that the real contenders suffer multiple injuries so we can sneak past the first round somehow.

"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
No reason to trade young players for more draft picks. 


The Celtics are loaded with picks.   



The Celtics need to make moves that get them closer to adding a star.

Finally. Someone who gets it.

And I need a Ferrari. Let me just pull the money out of thin air shall I?
Do you know a genie in a bottle?
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7482
  • Tommy Points: 943
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
Posted by: Future Celtics Owner
ォ on: Today at 04:03:33 PM サ

Quote
Chambers and kid Pho Pho are making way too much sense to me. Id like to add my vision of how this plays out: We get a top pick along with BKN this year and Dallas gets the 10th pick (also if Minny makes it past 12 we get their 1st, but they would be smart to suck and draft a sf).

We really need an elite big man or small forward. Just some kind of All Star caliber talent with scoring ability...so hopefully we can throw all those picks together and somehow come out with a legit SF prospect- there are quite a few this draft.

If these Brooklyn picks end up like 14 or 15 each year it's going to suck bawls lol.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.