Author Topic: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?  (Read 13721 times)

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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2015, 02:10:31 AM »

Offline redrobot

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It can be tough to pair dominant big men - there's only so much room in the paint. Ask Detroit, I'm sure they would have preferred to keep Greg Monroe, it just wasn't going to work with him and Drummond.

Especially now when pretty much every team has a small-ball lineup that will ravage any kind of twin tower type pairing. I think if Philly feels like Okafor is the better prospect they will not hesitate to move Noel in favor of a future lottery pick.

But maybe Noel will adapt real well and compliment Okafor defensively. Tough to say until they share the court. In any case, it looks like Okafor is the more talented offensive player, so maybe Noel will be able to focus on defense and tackle the tougher assignment between the 2 of them?

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2015, 05:13:33 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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The Sixers aren't trading Noel unless they get Smart in the deal. How the season plays out determines what picks go where in such a deal but they're not just trying to be bad indefinitely. If they want Smart it's because they think the PG class coming in looks weak. Personally I'm holding onto Noel until draft night or the post-FA FML period(see: 2015, Mark Cuban types) if I'm Sam Hinkie and looking to trade him. That's when some desperate team will do something stupid. I don't anticipate Danny Ainge being that guy.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2015, 01:21:57 PM »

Offline ahonui06

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It can be tough to pair dominant big men - there's only so much room in the paint. Ask Detroit, I'm sure they would have preferred to keep Greg Monroe, it just wasn't going to work with him and Drummond.

Especially now when pretty much every team has a small-ball lineup that will ravage any kind of twin tower type pairing. I think if Philly feels like Okafor is the better prospect they will not hesitate to move Noel in favor of a future lottery pick.

But maybe Noel will adapt real well and compliment Okafor defensively. Tough to say until they share the court. In any case, it looks like Okafor is the more talented offensive player, so maybe Noel will be able to focus on defense and tackle the tougher assignment between the 2 of them?

Zach Lowe just had a podcast with Stan Van Gundy on 7/30 and he indicated he goes back and forth on letting Monroe walk to Milwaukee. Some days he feels like Monroe & Drummond could work together but other days he feels that the frontcourt duo could never work because of the spacing issues. Very interesting podcast and discussion.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2015, 01:26:01 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Typically I think counting stats are kind of overrated, but it is incredibly rare to have a player who can potentially average 2 steals and 2 blocks a game. Noel averaged 1.8 steals per game and 1.9 blocks per game in ~31 MPG. Only three players (well since blocks and steals were recorded at least) in NBA history were able to produce that kind of steal + block rate production in one package. Robinson. Hakeem. Noel. Noel will obviously never be that caliber of offensive player, but his defensive potential is seriously special.


Right.  I like the Camby comparison.  Camby was a much better rebounder, but he impacted the game a great deal on the defensive end despite never being a great offensive player.  Noel seems like he could be the same.  Ben Wallace is typically the comp to be made for that sort of player, but Noel is physically much more similar to Camby.

All of that is why I'd love to see the Celts get him, and why the Sixers will inevitably demand a hefty price for Noel.  I don't for a minute believe Noel and Okafor have a future playing together, though.  But the Sixers will keep Noel as long as they need to in order to maximize what they can get for him eventually, unless they decide to trade Okafor instead.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2015, 01:37:46 PM »

Offline oldtype

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It can be tough to pair dominant big men - there's only so much room in the paint. Ask Detroit, I'm sure they would have preferred to keep Greg Monroe, it just wasn't going to work with him and Drummond.

Especially now when pretty much every team has a small-ball lineup that will ravage any kind of twin tower type pairing. I think if Philly feels like Okafor is the better prospect they will not hesitate to move Noel in favor of a future lottery pick.

But maybe Noel will adapt real well and compliment Okafor defensively. Tough to say until they share the court. In any case, it looks like Okafor is the more talented offensive player, so maybe Noel will be able to focus on defense and tackle the tougher assignment between the 2 of them?

Zach Lowe just had a podcast with Stan Van Gundy on 7/30 and he indicated he goes back and forth on letting Monroe walk to Milwaukee. Some days he feels like Monroe & Drummond could work together but other days he feels that the frontcourt duo could never work because of the spacing issues. Very interesting podcast and discussion.

I actually think the most likely outcome (barring a dramatic change with the Sixers) is that Noel will go the Greg Monroe route: take the QO after 2016-2017, and then move in free agency in summer 2018. Obviously it's pointless projecting things that far ahead, but we would probably be one of the front runners to get him at that point assuming we have cap space.


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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2015, 01:48:19 PM »

Offline saltlover

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It can be tough to pair dominant big men - there's only so much room in the paint. Ask Detroit, I'm sure they would have preferred to keep Greg Monroe, it just wasn't going to work with him and Drummond.

Especially now when pretty much every team has a small-ball lineup that will ravage any kind of twin tower type pairing. I think if Philly feels like Okafor is the better prospect they will not hesitate to move Noel in favor of a future lottery pick.

But maybe Noel will adapt real well and compliment Okafor defensively. Tough to say until they share the court. In any case, it looks like Okafor is the more talented offensive player, so maybe Noel will be able to focus on defense and tackle the tougher assignment between the 2 of them?

Zach Lowe just had a podcast with Stan Van Gundy on 7/30 and he indicated he goes back and forth on letting Monroe walk to Milwaukee. Some days he feels like Monroe & Drummond could work together but other days he feels that the frontcourt duo could never work because of the spacing issues. Very interesting podcast and discussion.

I actually think the most likely outcome (barring a dramatic change with the Sixers) is that Noel will go the Greg Monroe route: take the QO after 2016-2017, and then move in free agency in summer 2018. Obviously it's pointless projecting things that far ahead, but we would probably be one of the front runners to get him at that point assuming we have cap space.

This is by far the least likely scenario in my book.  We'll see what happens in any CBA negotiations, but there is currently forecast to be a significant cap contraction in 2018.  As max salaries are directly linked to the cap, and all salaries are indirectly linked, it is likely he'd get less in 2018 than he would in 2017, on top of having played on a 1-year deal for an extra year.  Assuming Noel continues to develop his game the next 2 seasons, he should have little trouble finding a team willing to pay him enough money to dare Hinkie to match.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2015, 01:52:28 PM »

Offline oldtype

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It can be tough to pair dominant big men - there's only so much room in the paint. Ask Detroit, I'm sure they would have preferred to keep Greg Monroe, it just wasn't going to work with him and Drummond.

Especially now when pretty much every team has a small-ball lineup that will ravage any kind of twin tower type pairing. I think if Philly feels like Okafor is the better prospect they will not hesitate to move Noel in favor of a future lottery pick.

But maybe Noel will adapt real well and compliment Okafor defensively. Tough to say until they share the court. In any case, it looks like Okafor is the more talented offensive player, so maybe Noel will be able to focus on defense and tackle the tougher assignment between the 2 of them?

Zach Lowe just had a podcast with Stan Van Gundy on 7/30 and he indicated he goes back and forth on letting Monroe walk to Milwaukee. Some days he feels like Monroe & Drummond could work together but other days he feels that the frontcourt duo could never work because of the spacing issues. Very interesting podcast and discussion.

I actually think the most likely outcome (barring a dramatic change with the Sixers) is that Noel will go the Greg Monroe route: take the QO after 2016-2017, and then move in free agency in summer 2018. Obviously it's pointless projecting things that far ahead, but we would probably be one of the front runners to get him at that point assuming we have cap space.

This is by far the least likely scenario in my book.  We'll see what happens in any CBA negotiations, but there is currently forecast to be a significant cap contraction in 2018.  As max salaries are directly linked to the cap, and all salaries are indirectly linked, it is likely he'd get less in 2018 than he would in 2017, on top of having played on a 1-year deal for an extra year.  Assuming Noel continues to develop his game the next 2 seasons, he should have little trouble finding a team willing to pay him enough money to dare Hinkie to match.

I think it's unlikely the players agree to a cap contraction, but I take your point that it's even more pointless projecting this far into the future than usual given that we don't even know what the CBA will look like after 2017. For all we know RFA may not even exist by then.

The reason I think he'll take the QO isn't necessarily the money, but rather that he'll want to leave Philly for the same reason Monroe wanted to leave Detroit. (Bad team; younger, more highly-rated prospect in same position; no opportunities to shine)


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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2015, 01:52:40 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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The celtics need to

Underground recruit Nerlins ....coax him out

To give Hinkie the finger and pack his bags

That is a no where situation , which is fine if your 35 years old or more and just looking for a pay check.

Nerlins needs to get OUT ASAP ......it's worse ....a lot worse than KG s situation at Minn. when he was young.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2015, 02:25:05 PM »

Offline PaulAllen

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The Sixers aren't trading Noel unless they get Smart in the deal. How the season plays out determines what picks go where in such a deal but they're not just trying to be bad indefinitely. If they want Smart it's because they think the PG class coming in looks weak. Personally I'm holding onto Noel until draft night or the post-FA FML period(see: 2015, Mark Cuban types) if I'm Sam Hinkie and looking to trade him. That's when some desperate team will do something stupid. I don't anticipate Danny Ainge being that guy.

They are not trading him period.. Smart or no Smart..

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2015, 02:38:19 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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The Sixers aren't trading Noel unless they get Smart in the deal. How the season plays out determines what picks go where in such a deal but they're not just trying to be bad indefinitely. If they want Smart it's because they think the PG class coming in looks weak. Personally I'm holding onto Noel until draft night or the post-FA FML period(see: 2015, Mark Cuban types) if I'm Sam Hinkie and looking to trade him. That's when some desperate team will do something stupid. I don't anticipate Danny Ainge being that guy.
On the other hand if Noel wants to leave the time when they could get the most for him would probably be after the 2015-2016 season.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2015, 07:44:25 PM »

Offline Big333223

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It would have to be a situation like the OP described where Oakfor is looking like a ROY but he and Noel don't look good together at all. In that case, offering a PF who could work with Okafor (Sullinger or Olynyk) along with a redundant player on out roster (Bradley if Rozier looks good, Young if Hunter comes on strong) and a couple of future picks might get it done, but only if Philly wants to part with him to start.

I wouldn't trade Marcus Smart or Brooklyn's pick for Noel, who is terrific but limited.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2015, 02:39:25 AM »

Offline Londongreen

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It would have to be a situation like the OP described where Oakfor is looking like a ROY but he and Noel don't look good together at all. In that case, offering a PF who could work with Okafor (Sullinger or Olynyk) along with a redundant player on out roster (Bradley if Rozier looks good, Young if Hunter comes on strong) and a couple of future picks might get it done, but only if Philly wants to part with him to start.

I wouldn't trade Marcus Smart or Brooklyn's pick for Noel, who is terrific but limited.

But Noel looked like ROY with a better Rookie Class and Wiggins.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2015, 06:24:26 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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At some point , the fans are going to get disgusted , after all this fake basketball and nothing to show for their ticket money .

What a mess. 

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2015, 07:20:50 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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At some point , the fans are going to get disgusted , after all this fake basketball and nothing to show for their ticket money .

What a mess.

  ::)

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2015, 09:01:10 AM »

Offline loco_91

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Scenario:

Jahlil Okafor is leading the pack for rookie of the year, putting up double doubles and generally giving Philly fans hope for the future.

Neither Okafor nor Noel shows any sign of developing good NBA range.  Indeed, lineups with both on the floor are near the bottom of the league in offensive productive despite Okafor's skill in the paint.  Noel's attempts to play at the 4 have led to him averaging below 45% from the field.  However, whenever Noel is playing at the 5 with a rangier player at the 4, he shoots over 50% and the team defends at top 10 levels.

On top of this, Embiid's rehab is going well and there is talk about him possibly taking the court before the season is over.


Question:

In this scenario, or a similar one, what would it take for the Celtics to pull off a trade for Noel?  Adding a young defensive center with Marcus Camby upside to this roster could be a huge step toward assembling a long term core structure for the team.

Can it be done without trading Marcus Smart?  It seems to me at least one of the Nets' picks would have to be in play.  What about Bradley + Sullinger (or Olynyk) and a couple of 1sts?

Even if Noel is having a poor year, it is hard for me to imagine this getting done without Smart being involved. Hinkie isn't stupid, and he knows that Noel is a hugely valuable player. As much as I love Smart, I would absolutely trade him (plus picks) for Noel, since an elite defensive center is way more valuable than an elite defensive guard.