Author Topic: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?  (Read 13722 times)

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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2015, 06:26:24 PM »

Offline max215

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I think he'll be gone sooner rather than later. I don't see Noel and Okafor fitting well together, and Nerlens lacks the star potential that Okafor has. Hinkie is smart and will deal Noel before his value drops too low. I'd offer the Sixers Sully or Olynyk, Turner, Young, 2016 Celtics Pick, and the Memphis Pick. I don't want to mortgage our future for a guy like Noel, who I doubt will become a superstar. The problem is that we don't know when Philly will want to start winning, so if Nerlens is dealt this year, I'd expect him to dealt mostly for high upside future picks.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2015, 06:45:45 PM »

Offline oldtype

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I think he'll be gone sooner rather than later. I don't see Noel and Okafor fitting well together, and Nerlens lacks the star potential that Okafor has. Hinkie is smart and will deal Noel before his value drops too low. I'd offer the Sixers Sully or Olynyk, Turner, Young, 2016 Celtics Pick, and the Memphis Pick. I don't want to mortgage our future for a guy like Noel, who I doubt will become a superstar. The problem is that we don't know when Philly will want to start winning, so if Nerlens is dealt this year, I'd expect him to dealt mostly for high upside future picks.

Ultimately he's more Michael-Carter Williams than he is the transcendent superstar that Philly actually wants. Given that Philly looks to be terrible for at least another 2~3 years, do they really want to hand him the max in 2017? Think he'll be dealt for a pretty good haul (from us or otherwise) when his rookie contract starts winding down.


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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2015, 06:45:56 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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i think it would probably be more realistic if we didn't mention embiid for like 6 months until there is some report that he may actually play basketball again. The last report was that his career may be over.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2015, 06:48:08 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I think they'll give it 2-3 years with N.Noel and J.Okafor before deciding whether they can or cannot play together.

How long do they really have to wait and see, though?  Neither of them looks anything like a modern power forward.  Noel is somewhere between Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler in terms of how he plays.  Okafor is skilled but doesn't appear to have any range.  Neither is a reliable free throw shooter.

Noel's value may only go down if they try to integrate him with Okafor, especially if Embiid take the floor anytime soon and also earns significant time.  Okafor's develop will be helped a lot but playing next to quick defenders with range on the offensive end.

If I were Philly, I'd want to sell high on Noel before his or Okafor's development is hindered, and before I'm put in a position where I NEED to trade Noel, because that would hurt his trade value further.

When is Saric coming over, anyway, next year?  I'd probably want to clear the deck at the 4 before he does.  Saric at the 4 and Okafor / Embiid at the 5 is the hope for that franchise.
Unless the Sixers do an about face, Embiid won't play next season.  Saric will stay in Europe another 2 seasons before coming over which will get him out of his rookie contract.  Okafor is a rookie.  None of the three have played an NBA minute yet. 

Okafor and Noel haven't played a single minute together so projecting that combo as a failure already is ridiculous.  If Okafor gets 30 minutes at center that leaves 18 minutes for Noel.  When they're on the court together, there shouldn't be a spacing problem if the other 3 players are outside shooters.  Okafor's passing out of double teams should be a big plus. 

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2015, 06:52:54 PM »

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I think they'll give it 2-3 years with N.Noel and J.Okafor before deciding whether they can or cannot play together.

How long do they really have to wait and see, though?  Neither of them looks anything like a modern power forward.  Noel is somewhere between Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler in terms of how he plays.  Okafor is skilled but doesn't appear to have any range.  Neither is a reliable free throw shooter.

Noel's value may only go down if they try to integrate him with Okafor, especially if Embiid take the floor anytime soon and also earns significant time.  Okafor's develop will be helped a lot but playing next to quick defenders with range on the offensive end.

If I were Philly, I'd want to sell high on Noel before his or Okafor's development is hindered, and before I'm put in a position where I NEED to trade Noel, because that would hurt his trade value further.

When is Saric coming over, anyway, next year?  I'd probably want to clear the deck at the 4 before he does.  Saric at the 4 and Okafor / Embiid at the 5 is the hope for that franchise.

I would too (although I'd choose to keep Noel over J.Okafor) but most teams choose the other option - to keep both big men and try to develop them. So that that they can have one of the most dominant big man combinations in the league. For most the risk/reward of having that is greater than the risk/reward of any drop in trade value.

Teams rarely give up on a big man early in his development out of fear of fit. Especially hard to see a rebuilding team who does not prioritize winning choosing such an option.

Look around at other teams with talented young big men and see how many give up on them early in the process vs how many try to develop them so that they can play together more effectively somewhere down the road.

Young talented big men are treasured.



I don't think Embiid is a factor at all in any of this anymore. Not after his latest injury. He is the guy on the outside looking in. If would have to get back healthy, prove he can play & prove he can stay healthy before they think about dumping one of the other other two because of him ... which would take at least 2-3 years anyway. So same time-frame.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2015, 06:53:26 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Okafor and Noel haven't played a single minute together so projecting that combo as a failure already is ridiculous.  If Okafor gets 30 minutes at center that leaves 18 minutes for Noel.  When they're on the court together, there shouldn't be a spacing problem if the other 3 players are outside shooters.  Okafor's passing out of double teams should be a big plus.

Al Jefferson and Tyson Chandler have never played a minute together in the NBA.

Would it be ridiculous to project that combo as a failure?

If both of your big men are non-shooters (i.e. can't hit anything outside of the paint and poor free throw shooting), it doesn't matter what your guards and wings can do.  That's a spacing issue.


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I agree that Embiid is probably no longer a factor, but you never know.

I just don't think there's much hope of Noel and Okafor being able to play together.  I suppose you could look at them and think maybe they could function offensively the way Duncan and Splitter, for example, worked together at times for San Antonio. 

But Duncan can actually hit a jumper and Splitter is more skilled offensively than Noel, and that combo gave way to Diaw / Duncan much of the time in the playoffs, anyway.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2015, 06:58:27 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Look around at other teams with talented young big men and see how many give up on them early in the process vs how many try to develop them so that they can play together more effectively somewhere down the road.

Young talented big men are treasured.

Sure, and look how well it worked out for Detroit.

Don't you think the Pistons probably wish they had tried to trade Monroe before last summer, when they could get some good value for him?

Considering his knee issues, it's probably unlikely Noel would hold out on the Sixers the way Monroe did, but that might be a smart move for him if Okafor delivers on the promise he's shown as a scorer and rebounder in the paint.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2015, 06:59:24 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I'm hoping Noel becomes sick of the 76ers and how they work and demands a trade or won't resign with them

The GM is a real pecker head

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2015, 07:12:35 PM »

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Look around at other teams with talented young big men and see how many give up on them early in the process vs how many try to develop them so that they can play together more effectively somewhere down the road.

Young talented big men are treasured.

Sure, and look how well it worked out for Detroit.

Don't you think the Pistons probably wish they had tried to trade Monroe before last summer, when they could get some good value for him?

Considering his knee issues, it's probably unlikely Noel would hold out on the Sixers the way Monroe did, but that might be a smart move for him if Okafor delivers on the promise he's shown as a scorer and rebounder in the paint.

Sure. I share your point of view. I just don't think most NBA teams do.

Utah did the same with Favors and Kanter despite their problems playing together.
LA Lakers had problems with A.Bynum and P.Gasol.

They still keep them. They work with them. They try to develop them. So that they can improve individually and as a pairing to be play better together in the future.

Because if you can get it to work, you have one of if not the most dominant big man pairing in the league. That is hard to pass up on. I think Philly, like most teams in the league, will be very slow to give up on that possibility ... especially given that they are in no rush to win games right now. If anybody is in a position to be patient with their young bigs, it's Philly.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2015, 07:17:41 PM »

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I think that mid-range jump-shot is key to J.Okafor's development anyway.

He needs to be able to hit that 14-16 footer to become a top flight offensive player. Al Jefferson had to do the same thing and he did. J.Okafor needs that to open up his driving game. Then he has the jumper, the driving game and the post game. A three dimensional scoring threat. He is too predictable and stagnant offensively when he plays as a post-only player.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2015, 07:28:43 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Okafor and Noel haven't played a single minute together so projecting that combo as a failure already is ridiculous.  If Okafor gets 30 minutes at center that leaves 18 minutes for Noel.  When they're on the court together, there shouldn't be a spacing problem if the other 3 players are outside shooters.  Okafor's passing out of double teams should be a big plus.

Al Jefferson and Tyson Chandler have never played a minute together in the NBA.

Would it be ridiculous to project that combo as a failure?

If both of your big men are non-shooters (i.e. can't hit anything outside of the paint and poor free throw shooting), it doesn't matter what your guards and wings can do.  That's a spacing issue.


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I agree that Embiid is probably no longer a factor, but you never know.

I just don't think there's much hope of Noel and Okafor being able to play together.  I suppose you could look at them and think maybe they could function offensively the way Duncan and Splitter, for example, worked together at times for San Antonio. 

But Duncan can actually hit a jumper and Splitter is more skilled offensively than Noel, and that combo gave way to Diaw / Duncan much of the time in the playoffs, anyway.
Jefferson and Chandler are old vets who aren't going to improve their games.  Noel and Okafor have plenty of time to develop their games more.  Noel still has a long way to go but he looked significantly better on offense at the end of last season.  You can add Gasol/Randolph to your list of examples. 

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2015, 07:41:20 PM »

Offline Robert24

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You guys seem to very high on Noel. I don't thinking giving up the 2016 BKN pick is a good idea at all.

That could realistically get us a top 3 pick, and I don't think Noel is worth that as well as someone like Olynyk.

I'd try and increase Sullinger's trade value as much as possible by giving him a lot of minutes. Make his stats look good. Then, if Noel becomes available, I'd offer Sullinger and the 2016 BOS pick for him. I think Sullinger fits well with Okafor and provides spacing, especially with all the threes he likes to throw up.

Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2015, 07:51:01 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think that mid-range jump-shot is key to J.Okafor's development anyway.

He needs to be able to hit that 14-16 footer to become a top flight offensive player. Al Jefferson had to do the same thing and he did. J.Okafor needs that to open up his driving game. Then he has the jumper, the driving game and the post game. A three dimensional scoring threat. He is too predictable and stagnant offensively when he plays as a post-only player.

Agreed, but Big Al never seemed likely to find long term success as a PF, and he never did.


You're probably right about Philly holding onto to Noel.  I wish they wouldn't, though, because I really want to see the Celts acquire a young piece who can be part of the foundation for this team.  Noel seems like he ought to be available given the questionable fit for him in Philly, but it may be a few years before they reach that final conclusion.

It's just hard to think of many names other than Noel who could really make a difference here and who might be gettable with the kind of assets the Celtics have.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2015, 07:52:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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  You can add Gasol/Randolph to your list of examples.


That's a phenomenally high bar.  I don't think people realize how difficult it is to combine that level of skill, toughness, and strength in a frontcourt.  Even so, the Grizzlies struggle mightily to score much of the time.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: What would it take to get Noel at the deadline?
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2015, 07:55:05 PM »

Offline Robert24

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I think that mid-range jump-shot is key to J.Okafor's development anyway.

He needs to be able to hit that 14-16 footer to become a top flight offensive player. Al Jefferson had to do the same thing and he did. J.Okafor needs that to open up his driving game. Then he has the jumper, the driving game and the post game. A three dimensional scoring threat. He is too predictable and stagnant offensively when he plays as a post-only player.

Agreed, but Big Al never seemed likely to find long term success as a PF, and he never did.


You're probably right about Philly holding onto to Noel.  I wish they wouldn't, though, because I really want to see the Celts acquire a young piece who can be part of the foundation for this team.  Noel seems like he ought to be available given the questionable fit for him in Philly, but it may be a few years before they reach that final conclusion.

It's just hard to think of many names other than Noel who could really make a difference here and who might be gettable with the kind of assets the Celtics have.
Yeah, he's definitely a guy I'd look at as our center of the future.

Smart and Noel would be so fun to watch with their defense. We'd begin to look like the '04 Pistons with Billups and Big Ben.