Matt Moore on Rebuilding

[clover]

Eh, not really. I mean, I'm sure all teams want to advance and I think the C's are relatively ambitious for the upcoming year.

But with so many young players, it could well take another year for any of them to see their real future stars emerge. Washington is an example of such a team that looked shaky for a while, despite its supposed assets, and now its backcourt has matured into a real force for, most likely, the next decade-plus.

[PhoSita]

None of the Magic players scream bonofide All star to me.

Bona fide?  No.  But do they have that potential?  I think Oladipo, Harris, and Vucevic aren't that far off, Gordon has the physical tools and talent to get there, Hezonja sounds like he probably has that kind of ceiling, and Peyton may reach that level some day if he ever figures out how to shoot.

The Magic are nearly as talented top to bottom as the Hawks, they're just a heck of a lot younger, the pieces don't fit as nicely, and most of their guys are still a good distance from figuring out how to make the most of that talent.

[PhoSita]

Putting aside floors or ceilings for a minute, I wanted to throw the following out there:

In a seven game right now, who do you like?:

Elfrid Payton
Victor Oladipo
Tobias Harris
Aaron Gordon
Nikola Vucevic

vs.

Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley
Jae Crowder
Jared Sullinger
Kelly Olynyk

I'd take the Magic team.  I think Vooch would kill us inside and on the boards and Harris would have little trouble blowing past Sully or overpowering Crowder.

Oladipo could definitely get some good looks inside against Sullynyk, too.

[Evantime34]

Putting aside floors or ceilings for a minute, I wanted to throw the following out there:

In a seven game right now, who do you like?:

Elfrid Payton
Victor Oladipo
Tobias Harris
Aaron Gordon
Nikola Vucevic

vs.

Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley
Jae Crowder
Jared Sullinger
Kelly Olynyk

I'd take the Magic team.  I think Vooch would kill us inside and on the boards and Harris would have little trouble blowing past Sully or overpowering Crowder.

Oladipo could definitely get some good looks inside against Sullynyk, too.

Harris overpowering Crowder? I think that's unlikely at best.

[Rondo9]

Putting aside floors or ceilings for a minute, I wanted to throw the following out there:

In a seven game right now, who do you like?:

Elfrid Payton
Victor Oladipo
Tobias Harris
Aaron Gordon
Nikola Vucevic

vs.

Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley
Jae Crowder
Jared Sullinger
Kelly Olynyk

I'd take the Magic team.  I think Vooch would kill us inside and on the boards and Harris would have little trouble blowing past Sully or overpowering Crowder.

Oladipo could definitely get some good looks inside against Sullynyk, too.

And Harris will struggle defending against Turner and Celtics did a decent job defending Vuecic in their times they've met. Again the Magic have talent, but I think they are in the same boat as the Celtics.

[SHAQATTACK]

LeBron flex his muscles , he is still big dog on block

[PhoSita]

Putting aside floors or ceilings for a minute, I wanted to throw the following out there:

In a seven game right now, who do you like?:

Elfrid Payton
Victor Oladipo
Tobias Harris
Aaron Gordon
Nikola Vucevic

vs.

Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley
Jae Crowder
Jared Sullinger
Kelly Olynyk

I'd take the Magic team.  I think Vooch would kill us inside and on the boards and Harris would have little trouble blowing past Sully or overpowering Crowder.

Oladipo could definitely get some good looks inside against Sullynyk, too.

And Harris will struggle defending against Turner and Celtics did a decent job defending Vuecic in their times they've met. Again the Magic have talent, but I think they are in the same boat as the Celtics.

I'd prefer not to get too deep into this hypo (might as well simulate this in NBA 2K or something), but I wouldn't be too worried about Evan Turner being the guy that beats me in this scenario.

I just think if you're going solely on the lineups C18 provided, it's hard to pick the Celts.  Sullinger and Olynyk is a pairing that has been shown to be horrid defensively, and the Magic have the best three scorers on the floor in that matchup (Vooch, Oladipo, Harris).

In the big picture, neither of the lineups provided is very good right now. 

[Evantime34]

Putting aside floors or ceilings for a minute, I wanted to throw the following out there:

In a seven game right now, who do you like?:

Elfrid Payton
Victor Oladipo
Tobias Harris
Aaron Gordon
Nikola Vucevic

vs.

Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley
Jae Crowder
Jared Sullinger
Kelly Olynyk

I'd take the Magic team.  I think Vooch would kill us inside and on the boards and Harris would have little trouble blowing past Sully or overpowering Crowder.

Oladipo could definitely get some good looks inside against Sullynyk, too.

And Harris will struggle defending against Turner and Celtics did a decent job defending Vuecic in their times they've met. Again the Magic have talent, but I think they are in the same boat as the Celtics.

I'd prefer not to get too deep into this hypo (might as well simulate this in NBA 2K or something), but I wouldn't be too worried about Evan Turner being the guy that beats me in this scenario.

I just think if you're going solely on the lineups C18 provided, it's hard to pick the Celts.  Sullinger and Olynyk is a pairing that has been shown to be horrid defensively, and the Magic have the best three scorers on the floor in that matchup (Vooch, Oladipo, Harris).

In the big picture, neither of the lineups provided is very good right now.

Smart, Bradley and Crowder looked to be players capable of leading their team to a top 10 defense in the second half of the year. I think our hypothetical team would play much better defense than the hypothetical Magic.

Also the way our wings force the ball away from picks really protects our bigs and allows us to defend at a high level without high level defensive bigs. I'm absolutely a homer but I'd take our guys.

[Rondo9]

Putting aside floors or ceilings for a minute, I wanted to throw the following out there:

In a seven game right now, who do you like?:

Elfrid Payton
Victor Oladipo
Tobias Harris
Aaron Gordon
Nikola Vucevic

vs.

Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley
Jae Crowder
Jared Sullinger
Kelly Olynyk

I'd take the Magic team.  I think Vooch would kill us inside and on the boards and Harris would have little trouble blowing past Sully or overpowering Crowder.

Oladipo could definitely get some good looks inside against Sullynyk, too.

And Harris will struggle defending against Turner and Celtics did a decent job defending Vuecic in their times they've met. Again the Magic have talent, but I think they are in the same boat as the Celtics.

I'd prefer not to get too deep into this hypo (might as well simulate this in NBA 2K or something), but I wouldn't be too worried about Evan Turner being the guy that beats me in this scenario.

I just think if you're going solely on the lineups C18 provided, it's hard to pick the Celts.  Sullinger and Olynyk is a pairing that has been shown to be horrid defensively, and the Magic have the best three scorers on the floor in that matchup (Vooch, Oladipo, Harris).

In the big picture, neither of the lineups provided is very good right now.

You keep assuming that Sullinger and Olynyk are going to be paired together against the Magic. You honestly think Stevens will keep on the floor if they both horribly? That's assuming if the poster posting the lineups includes Amir Johson and Tyler Zeller.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Putting aside floors or ceilings for a minute, I wanted to throw the following out there:

In a seven game right now, who do you like?:

Elfrid Payton
Victor Oladipo
Tobias Harris
Aaron Gordon
Nikola Vucevic

vs.

Marcus Smart
Avery Bradley
Jae Crowder
Jared Sullinger
Kelly Olynyk

I'd take the Magic team.  I think Vooch would kill us inside and on the boards and Harris would have little trouble blowing past Sully or overpowering Crowder.

Oladipo could definitely get some good looks inside against Sullynyk, too.

And Harris will struggle defending against Turner and Celtics did a decent job defending Vuecic in their times they've met. Again the Magic have talent, but I think they are in the same boat as the Celtics.

I'd prefer not to get too deep into this hypo (might as well simulate this in NBA 2K or something), but I wouldn't be too worried about Evan Turner being the guy that beats me in this scenario.

I just think if you're going solely on the lineups C18 provided, it's hard to pick the Celts.  Sullinger and Olynyk is a pairing that has been shown to be horrid defensively, and the Magic have the best three scorers on the floor in that matchup (Vooch, Oladipo, Harris).

In the big picture, neither of the lineups provided is very good right now.

Smart, Bradley and Crowder looked to be players capable of leading their team to a top 10 defense in the second half of the year. I think our hypothetical team would play much better defense than the hypothetical Magic.

Also the way our wings force the ball away from picks really protects our bigs and allows us to defend at a high level without high level defensive bigs. I'm absolutely a homer but I'd take our guys.

Scott Skiles as a coach. I am shaking in my boots.
Stevens would win this easy. Hey we did better than the hawks did against the Cavs. Added a 2013 All-Star and a center. We win in 5.

[D.o.s.]

Scott Skiles could be a better coach than Brad Stevens. hard to say.

[Celtics18]

Some of you have misunderstood my hypothetical.

It's not the Celtics vs. the Magic.  It's Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Gordon, and Vucevic vs. Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Sullinger, and Olynyk.

Pretend they met up in an empty gym somewhere and just decided to play.  Make it a seven game series, playground rules, each game to twenty-one, win by two.  Call your own fouls.

I'm going with the Celtics.

[redrobot]

Orlando has mired in the lottery for years. They should be trying to break out of it at all costs. How many times have they won the lottery? How has it worked out for them? Did Shaq bring them a banner? Did Penny? Dwight? Do you think Oladipo will? Best of luck!

Orlando got two Finals appearances and a great many wins from Shaq and Dwight.  I doubt they really regret losing the games necessary to draft them.

I'd say the fact that you weren't able to win a title with the two historically dominant big men you drafted at the top of the lottery is not a good reason to avoid trying to get another star in the lottery.

All in all, I'd say the Magic are doing a pretty good job with their rebuild so far.  They've assembled some nice talent.  They've spent enough time in the lottery since Dwight left, though, and now they need to see what they can make of the players they've assembled.

...

But my point was more about how they were super lucky to have landed franchise players, but were unable to win it all and ultimately lost the players. Theoretically they could have kept them if they had had a better supporting cast.

And as far as their current roster goes, they do have some nice pieces - arguably with greater potential than what we have in Boston, but at least in a similar neighborhood. The difference is that their last three years have seen 20, 23 & 25 wins.

Whereas the Celtics have made the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years and managed to arrange a similarly talented roster of solid role players and a couple high ceiling projects. Plus Boston has the added Brooklyn picks and better financials. Not that Orlando's money situation is any real concern, but the C's have even more cap flexibility than the Magic in the next couple years. Could be the difference in adding 1 or 2 max deals.

[jpotter33]

Some of you have misunderstood my hypothetical.

It's not the Celtics vs. the Magic.  It's Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Gordon, and Vucevic vs. Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Sullinger, and Olynyk.

Pretend they met up in an empty gym somewhere and just decided to play.  Make it a seven game series, playground rules, each game to twenty-one, win by two.  Call your own fouls.

I'm going with the Celtics.

I think it's pretty close. As big of a mismatch as Vuc is on offense, so are the floor-spreaders of Sully and KO for Vuc and AG. Sully would overpower Gordon down low, and KO would stetch out Vuc to the perimeter. Also, Bradley can guard EP Rondo-style with his horrid shot, leaving Oladipp to Smart to try and contain. It's very very close, but given our shooting advantages I'd give us the edge in a series slightly. That isn't to say that we have more talent, though. They definitely have more raw talent than us, but our guys' experience, both overall and in meaningful games, along with our better fit together and superior shooting gives us the edge, imo.

Also, there's no way Harris overpowers Crowder. Crowder is supposedly ridiculously strong, and he's built like a brick Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.house for a basketball player.

[D.o.s.]

Some of you have misunderstood my hypothetical.

It's not the Celtics vs. the Magic.  It's Payton, Oladipo, Harris, Gordon, and Vucevic vs. Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Sullinger, and Olynyk.

Pretend they met up in an empty gym somewhere and just decided to play.  Make it a seven game series, playground rules, each game to twenty-one, win by two.  Call your own fouls.

I'm going with the Celtics.

If it's playground rules meaning make-it-take-it... neither "team" can actually shoot the ball, so I assume Olynyk fouls out trying to deal with PnR's involving Vucevic, which score orlando uncontested buckets since neither of our bigs can defend worth anything.

Seriously, if Orlando runs straight pick and rolls, what are the Celtics 5 going to do besides foul?