Author Topic: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart  (Read 11955 times)

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Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2015, 12:21:35 AM »

Offline redrobot

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Lindsey Hunter was a 2 guard from a tiny school that was the focal point of their offense. He jacked up 20+ shots a game and generally scored at will. The NBA was different when he was drafted - most undersized 2 guards were unable to make the transition to combo guard. He happened to land in Detroit, who had developed a liking to the undersized scoring machine role carved out by the recently departed Vinnie Johnson.

His situation is so entirely different than what Marcus Smart is experiencing right now with this squad and today's NBA, it's pretty tough to draw a straight up comparison - not even mentioning the age & build factors that other posters have pointed out.

But suspending all of that, for the sake of argument - if you truly feel like Smart's game is similar to Hunter's career highlight reel, then combine that with Smart's leadership / floor general / bulldog personality and I think the comparison is definitely not sad at all.

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2015, 12:27:55 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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Disagree.

My best possible outcome for Smart is either Kyle Lowry or Chauncey Billups.

Worst possible outcome I'm not sure.  If he never gets better than he is now, he's still a valuable defensive role player who can hit a three.


It's too early to say what the "best comparison" is for Smart.  I'm pretty confident it's not Lindsay Hunter.

If Lyndsay Hunter is not close

than what do you call , Gary Payton , Wade, or Deron Williams comparison's?

the ones that 95% of Celtics Bloggers give to us?

When I look at Lynday's style of play, how he was used, some of his game footage, what he was known for and lastly his statistics which resemble Smart's almost to a tee.....

He is very much like Hunter,,,,,,im not saying that Marcus can become better or way better...but this comparion even with stats looks good a the moment.


Would you like me to compare Smart with Eric Snow?

Lyndsay guarded bigger guards too, but wasnt strong enough for the 3 positions on defense...

Snow was built more like Smart.

His statistics do not match Smart's to a tee, though. Smart took 57% of his shot attempts from 3. Hunter took 39% of his shots from 3 in his career. Smart's FTr was 27% as a rookie. Hunter's was 16.5% for his career. Hunter couldn't even finish at the rim at above 50% FG for his career. Smart finished at the rim at a 56% FG clip as a rookie. Smart had a .077 WS/48 as a rookie. Hunter didn't match that until he was 25 years old and in the league for three years. Smart did all of this as a 20 year old. Their offensive styles aren't really similar at all. They take different types of shots and Smart is a much better finisher already. Hunter couldn't even match Smart's rookie DBPM (defensive box plus minus) until he was 33 years old.

Also, while I've always thought prime Eric Snow (Philly) was an underrated player, he didn't become as good as rookie Smart until his 4th season at the age of 25. I hope you can understand why people are saying these comparisons are kind of really off. You are trying to find a realistic comparison for Smart, but ignoring the fact that the two guys you compared him to were not as good as 20 year old Smart until they were 25. That is a big sticking point and a huuuuuge difference. How good do you think Smart will be in 4 years by the time he is 25? That's a ton of time. Most players don't even hit their prime until 26, and Smart is still 5 years away from that (to be fair, he is really physically mature for his age which may not change much by the time he is 25-26).

Also, not sure why you are saying either player had a similar build to Smart. Both Snow and Hunter weighed 190-195 pounds. Smart has ~30-35 pounds on both players. Pretty big difference. Smart is only 10 pounds lighter than prime Paul Pierce, lol. Actually at the time of their respective drafts, Smart weighed 227 while Pierce weighed 229. Smart is built.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 12:54:17 AM by DarkAzcura »

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2015, 01:38:48 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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A poster here Defense Wins Championships showed through statiscal analysis that Smart may not have put up the Stats that Payton did but graded out as a much more impactful defender.

Rookie year Payton, maybe. even so, I have doubts.  Link to the post?
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Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2015, 01:55:07 AM »

Offline redrobot

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How about this? Gary Payton attempted 13 3-pointers his rookie year. Marcus Smart? 272. That's more than the top 3 of the 90-91 Sonics combined. Noted gunners Eddie Johnson, Dale Ellis & old friend Dana Barros totaled only 269 attempts that year, three less than Smart managed all by himself.

If that doesn't illustrate what a different situation today's NBA is and how difficult it is to compare players from different generations, I don't know what will.


Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2015, 02:04:16 AM »

Offline colincb

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A poster here Defense Wins Championships showed through statiscal analysis that Smart may not have put up the Stats that Payton did but graded out as a much more impactful defender.

Rookie year Payton, maybe. even so, I have doubts.  Link to the post?

Here's a rookie stat comparison between the two FWIW. Very similar advanced stats, but comparing rookie stats is pretty useless.

http://bkref.com/tiny/YP6nq

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2015, 02:14:23 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Bledsoe and Lowry. That is the floor for Smart.

Ok, I like Smart a lot - but I wouldn't go that far.

He hasn't shown us yet that he's got the potential to be as good as those guys, so to say that is his 'floor' is (IMHO) a bit unrealistic. 

I think those guys are closer to being Smart's Ceiling to be honest.

I'd say his Floor is more like Derek Fisher.

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2015, 04:15:16 AM »

Offline Iggzilla

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Alvin Robertson would probably be my best comparison. Good size (6-3). Played a lot of point, but wasn't a natural point guard and played a lot of off guard too. Great defender (1 defensive player of the year award and 7 all defensive team selections) who was a ball hawk (led league in steals 5 times). Made 4 all-star teams. Wasn't the best perimeter shooter, but managed to finish with a career scoring average of 15.9, along with 5.9 RPG, 5.7 APG, and 3.1 SPG.

Great comparison, IMO. I think Smart can realistically replicate Robertson's career averages, but right now it seems like he has an even higher upside because he already has a three-point shot and has a bigger, stronger body. With his tenacious defense, I believe Smart can lead the league in steals one day, which Robertson did once or twice in his career.

I just hope he doesn't follow Robertson when it comes to off-court problems as well  ;D

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #52 on: August 04, 2015, 06:14:56 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Marcus, at age 20, showed a lot more as a rookie than the 23 year old Lindsey Hunter did.  It would take a total lack of development for Marcus to bottom out at Hunter.


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Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #53 on: August 04, 2015, 06:49:49 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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Disagree.

My best possible outcome for Smart is either Kyle Lowry or Chauncey Billups.

Worst possible outcome I'm not sure.  If he never gets better than he is now, he's still a valuable defensive role player who can hit a three.


It's too early to say what the "best comparison" is for Smart.  I'm pretty confident it's not Lindsay Hunter.

If Lyndsay Hunter is not close

than what do you call , Gary Payton , Wade, or Deron Williams comparison's?

the ones that 95% of Celtics Bloggers give to us?

When I look at Lynday's style of play, how he was used, some of his game footage, what he was known for and lastly his statistics which resemble Smart's almost to a tee.....

He is very much like Hunter,,,,,,im not saying that Marcus can become better or way better...but this comparion even with stats looks good a the moment.


Would you like me to compare Smart with Eric Snow?

Lyndsay guarded bigger guards too, but wasnt strong enough for the 3 positions on defense...

Snow was built more like Smart.

His statistics do not match Smart's to a tee, though. Smart took 57% of his shot attempts from 3. Hunter took 39% of his shots from 3 in his career. Smart's FTr was 27% as a rookie. Hunter's was 16.5% for his career. Hunter couldn't even finish at the rim at above 50% FG for his career. Smart finished at the rim at a 56% FG clip as a rookie. Smart had a .077 WS/48 as a rookie. Hunter didn't match that until he was 25 years old and in the league for three years. Smart did all of this as a 20 year old. Their offensive styles aren't really similar at all. They take different types of shots and Smart is a much better finisher already. Hunter couldn't even match Smart's rookie DBPM (defensive box plus minus) until he was 33 years old.

Also, while I've always thought prime Eric Snow (Philly) was an underrated player, he didn't become as good as rookie Smart until his 4th season at the age of 25. I hope you can understand why people are saying these comparisons are kind of really off. You are trying to find a realistic comparison for Smart, but ignoring the fact that the two guys you compared him to were not as good as 20 year old Smart until they were 25. That is a big sticking point and a huuuuuge difference. How good do you think Smart will be in 4 years by the time he is 25? That's a ton of time. Most players don't even hit their prime until 26, and Smart is still 5 years away from that (to be fair, he is really physically mature for his age which may not change much by the time he is 25-26).

Also, not sure why you are saying either player had a similar build to Smart. Both Snow and Hunter weighed 190-195 pounds. Smart has ~30-35 pounds on both players. Pretty big difference. Smart is only 10 pounds lighter than prime Paul Pierce, lol. Actually at the time of their respective drafts, Smart weighed 227 while Pierce weighed 229. Smart is built.

I see your point, but that is where im going, i can't look into the future, but Im just seeing how they play. They just look the same on the court.........not only based of the highlight reel, just the way they make their statement on the court.

You have to remember, the era's were different, roles different, not every stat will be the same.

When I meant compare stats, I meant averages. I doubt Smart will shoot 56% of his shots as three's , as that will be terrible for him to continue.

Lyndsay Hunter became just that , a spot up 3 point shooter, who barely shot 38-41 % and played hard on both ends....difficulty finishing, not that greatest ball handler, not the best of passers. A hard working player.

That is how I see Smart. That's how Lyndsay was most if not all of his career.

Of course Smart is 2 and a half years younger when they both started. So yes maybe Smart will develop into something Hunter never was by the time he hits Hunter's rookie year.....I just think he won't change much. Although he definently can.

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #54 on: August 04, 2015, 07:05:55 AM »

Offline rickyfan3.0...

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I actually LOVED Lyndsey Hunter.

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2015, 08:09:26 AM »

Offline celtics2030

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I actually LOVED Lyndsey Hunter.

Yea Lyndsay Hunter played hard.

His biggest downfall was how bad he shot in the playoffs.

Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2015, 08:47:33 AM »

Offline littleteapot

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You also have to look at what situations are leading to defensive plays. Most of Smart's crazy steals and other defensive plays last year came when he guarded the lead ball handler, the opponents tried to set a screen to free him up and Smart made a play that blew up the offensive possession. Then the offense sometimes took a desperate risk and Smart cleaned up with a steal. Plenty of guys can occasionally make plays like that when they are away from the ball and they gamble or the ball happens to end up near them, but it's not the same as people who are actually disrupting what the other team does.
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Re: The sad but best comparison to Marcus Smart
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2015, 09:00:55 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Marcus, at age 20, showed a lot more as a rookie than the 23 year old Lindsey Hunter did.  It would take a total lack of development for Marcus to bottom out at Hunter.

Yeah, rookie comparisons really need to factor in age. Marcus is still a year from the age a lot of rookies 20 years ago were coming into the NBA.