Why the hate for Turner?

[clover]

He shoots slowly. His limbs do not seem to be under control at all times. His eyes are opened a little too wide.

More than anything, he seems to be cautious with the ball; I think he has what it takes, actually, to be a terrific NBA shooting guard. Something in his attitude will probably have to change first though. He definitely looks more professional: sharper in his movements - than he did in college. But he lacks that aggression and certainty. He does turn the ball over - and would do it a lot if he didn't work to protect it. I hope he can find that balance of professionalism and aggression that I think he needs to be successful.

What if we said to him: you're the starter at shooting guard - do you? I bet he would respond. But without that confidence, he is going to keep playing to protect the ball.

Compare this Ohio State highlights real:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdEMPnj0cwI

With this Celtics reel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm8AnRoSPrM

Didn't really watch firsthand, but I thought that was ET's problem before he got to Boston--he was asked to play off the ball and just not very good at that.

[littleteapot]

Didn't really watch firsthand, but I thought that was ET's problem before he got to Boston--he was asked to play off the ball and just not very good at that.

The issue is that he's not good enough to be ball-dominant on a good teamand doesn't know how to play without the ball.

[Smartacus]

Felt like LeBron exposed him in the playoffs last year. He wasn't able to get into the lane once he faced real perimeter D.

Don't think he's good enough to justify the amout of touches he gets.

Who doesn't Lebron expose to some degree.  I am not a Lebron fan. In fact, as I have mentioned before-Why does a Lebron Loss feel like a Celtic Win?

Lebron is arguable one of the better defenders in the NBA-and he can defend multiple positions.
He didn't expose Turner.  As one of the top athletes in the history of the NBA-Lebron simply did what he does to many opposing players on a nightly basis-limited what they want to do.


Turner deserves more respect.  He really does.  Yet he is mentioned in every poorly dreamt up trade from pundits on this blog.  Hell I swear I thought I saw someone want to trade him for Scalabrine in the announcer's booth.

 

What I mean by exposed is that LeBron entirely shut down everything Turner wanted to do. Not just contesting his shots but his ability to cut into the lane and either score or drive and kick out.

I thought Turner was very effective at using the spacing that our system creates during the regular season but when things tightened up and he had a true star in his face Turner was serving up little more than bricks and turnovers. LeBron showed that Turner really has no place as a good team's primary ball handler.

Think he'd make a great second unit primary ball handler but we already have IT for that.

[KG Living Legend]

 Until other players prove they can pass and dribble a well as Turner he's OK by me. The fact he's 6'6" and can defend fairly well is gravy. He's solid.

[Rondo9]

Felt like LeBron exposed him in the playoffs last year. He wasn't able to get into the lane once he faced real perimeter D.

Don't think he's good enough to justify the amout of touches he gets.

Who doesn't Lebron expose to some degree.  I am not a Lebron fan. In fact, as I have mentioned before-Why does a Lebron Loss feel like a Celtic Win?

Lebron is arguable one of the better defenders in the NBA-and he can defend multiple positions.
He didn't expose Turner.  As one of the top athletes in the history of the NBA-Lebron simply did what he does to many opposing players on a nightly basis-limited what they want to do.


Turner deserves more respect.  He really does.  Yet he is mentioned in every poorly dreamt up trade from pundits on this blog.  Hell I swear I thought I saw someone want to trade him for Scalabrine in the announcer's booth.

 

What I mean by exposed is that LeBron entirely shut down everything Turner wanted to do. Not just contesting his shots but his ability to cut into the lane and either score or drive and kick out.

I thought Turner was very effective at using the spacing that our system creates during the regular season but when things tightened up and he had a true star in his face Turner was serving up little more than bricks and turnovers. LeBron showed that Turner really has no place as a good team's primary ball handler.

Think he'd make a great second unit primary ball handler but we already have IT for that.

Lebron can make any player look bad, he's that good.

[slamtheking]

Am I the only person who doesn't hate Turner on this forum? I don't think he played terribly for the Celtics and his contract isn't outrageous or anything. Can someone just explain why everyone hates him? All the trade proposals to simply get rid of him seem a little crazy to me, in my eyes he's a pretty serviceable player.

I should also start a "why the hate for sully" thread but that's for another day.

I don't think it's 'hate'.  I think many feel there are better players out there than Turner that can provide more for us than he does.  Being a former #2 pick doesn't help him in his evaluations either.

[PhoSita]

In short: Turner is not very good now and there is little reason to believe he will be better in the future.

So, he's just taking up space in the rotation that could be used on a player who might have the goods to be a long term piece.


I feel the same way about Bradley at this point, though I think Bradley is a more useful player than Turner.

Both are overrated in these parts, though, because fans like guards who use crossover moves and take pull-up jumpers.

[Rondo9]

In short: Turner is not very good now and there is little reason to believe he will be better in the future.

So, he's just taking up space in the rotation that could be used on a player who might have the goods to be a long term piece.


I feel the same way about Bradley at this point, though I think Bradley is a more useful player than Turner.

Both are overrated in these parts, though, because fans like guards who use crossover moves and take pull-up jumpers.

Turner was pretty solid for the Celtics last year, and who can replace Turner right now besides Jae Crowder?

[Chris22]

Didn't Turner hit a lot of big shots at the end of games last year?

[Celtics4ever]

Am I the only person who doesn't hate Turner on this forum? I don't think he played terribly for the Celtics and his contract isn't outrageous or anything. Can someone just explain why everyone hates him? All the trade proposals to simply get rid of him seem a little crazy to me, in my eyes he's a pretty serviceable player.

I should also start a "why the hate for sully" thread but that's for another day.

I don't think there has been a good OSU player since Hondo in the NBA, except Mike Conley, and I am from Ohio.  Perhaps your a buckeye who often think that their guys have no fault.  I have seen perfectly rational people absorbed into the fold there and come out brainwashed by "the Ohio state". crowd to the point where they can no longer think rationally.

  These reason people do not Turner, is that he is a stop gap who has no place on this team, and takes minutes from young guys.    He disappeared during the Cavs series too, after talking some tough guy talk.

He is inefficient, does not shoot particularly well.   He can get his own shot. But at a career 42% it means it is maddening.  Because he will get open and miss a lot of them.   The guy makes the crazy hard shots and misses the bad ones.  Ainge did get him on the cheap as he is a guy on the verge of bustdom prior to coming here.

Sully ate himself into a position where it affected his game.   I suppose you think that is the mark of a good player too.    Would you name some good players so we can discern more of your basketball wisdom?  Jim Jackson perhaps?  Greg Oden?   Tony Campbell?

[biggs]

I don't hate him. He acutally kind of grew on me as the season went on, and to be honest, I would love him off the bench. I think it's just disappointing to have him as our starting SF, and especially in the playoffs.

To me, his moves are good enough for a weak Atlantic division, but put him against the big boys and he struggles.

Essentially, he's a good "for now" player, but if we're moving forward he doesn't quite fit as a starter.

[PhoSita]

In short: Turner is not very good now and there is little reason to believe he will be better in the future.

So, he's just taking up space in the rotation that could be used on a player who might have the goods to be a long term piece.


I feel the same way about Bradley at this point, though I think Bradley is a more useful player than Turner.

Both are overrated in these parts, though, because fans like guards who use crossover moves and take pull-up jumpers.

Turner was pretty solid for the Celtics last year, and who can replace Turner right now besides Jae Crowder?

I'd give his minutes at the 3 to Crowder and Jerebko.

I'd give his minutes at the 1 & 2 to Smart, Thomas, Rozier, Hunter, Young . . . whoever earns them.


Like I said, he was useful to the team last year because they needed his ballhandling ability when Smart and Bradley were on the floor together. 

Now that Smart is entering his second year, the team has IT on board from the start, and they just used a 1st round pick on a combo guard, I think they ought to be able to get by without Turner's ball-handling.


My preference at this point is to install Smart at the 2 and pair him with point guards.

[GreenWarrior]

Didn't Turner hit a lot of big shots at the end of games last year?

he hit some. I was more impressed with Turner in the playoffs than I was Bradley, even though that's not saying much. but at least Turner looked like he could get a shot off.

[jaketwice]

Here is the issue with Turner.  He needs to have the ball a lot (high usage) to be effective.  Overall, for him to have the ball a lot is not a good thing.

So it is a classic catch 22.

As shown above, it is not necessarily a bad thing when he has the ball.  He passes a lot, and he's an effective passer.  When he takes pull-up jumpers, he makes them at a reasonable rate.  And he doesn't take that many pull-ups relative to his usage.

It's fine to speak in generalities, but the numbers just don't bear out the criticisms.  The main issue with him is that he's got a PG's game in the body of a SF with average athleticism.  You want your PG's to be quick, which turner isn't.  And you want your SF's to be able to shoot of the catch, which Turner can't, or be exceptionally strong and athletic, which Turner isn't.  So he looks wrong.  But his play last year was just fine.

Kyle Anderson was a really popular player on this blog pre-2014 draft, and again this summer league.  To me, Anderson and Turner are pretty similar players -- guys with skillsets that don't match their body types.  But in the case of Turner, he's figured out how to play who he is, and not what people expect from a 6'6" SF.  And that's a useful player.

Also, Turner makes the 8th-most in salary on this team.  He's the 3rd-highest paid SF (if that's what you think he is) or the 4th-highest paid guard, if that's how you classify him.  He's not paid to be a star, and he's definitely providing at least the value his salary would indicate.  Normally when people are down on players who perform reasonably well it's because they're not living up to expectations -- but what expectations could have possibly been set for someone on his contract??

I just don't get it at all.

This was just excellent. TP.

[jayk009]

Do you remember when he was traded to Indiana and was expected to help off the bench?

He was a disaster and while I don't blame him for their implosion..they seemed to have bottomed out as soon as they acquired him.

I haven't seen anything from him that shows he can be a good role player..