Author Topic: Why the hate for Turner?  (Read 16499 times)

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Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2015, 11:50:51 AM »

Offline saltlover

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One final stat -- Turner put his teammates into good shooting positions.  He was second to Rondo in assists per game, but here's a different stat.  The NBA now tracks assist opportunities per game, so we can divide APG by opportunities per game to calculate a FG% for when players passed the ball -- I'll call it Assist FG%.  (Note: the NBA rounds both APG and opportunities per game to the nearest tenth, which creates some small imprecision, and accordingly there are several players with the same rate.)

Nelson - 56.1%
Turner - 53.9%
Rondo - 52.7%
Sullinger - 50%
Smart - 50%
Bradley- 50%
Zeller - 50%
Datome - 50%
Olynyk - 48.6%
Pressey - 47.9%
Jerebko - 45.5%
Thomas - 45.4%
Crowder - 45.2%
Bass - 44.8%
Prince - 43.5%
Thornton  -39.1%
Green - 39%
Young - 33.3%
Wallace - 30%
Randolph - 25%

Anyway, this is another example that the team did just fine while Turner was running the offense.  It may look unorthodox, and may not be pretty, but he didn't take an unreasonable amount of pullups for someone with the ball a lot, he made those shots at a good rate, and when he passed the ball, which he did a lot, his teammates were more likely to make a shot than when almost anyone else passed it to them.

And we haven't even talked about his rebounding, which was also a plus for his position.  The Turner hate is full of various biases that people bring to the table -- from his relative lack of success as the #2 pick, to his really bad time in Indiana, and even to the fact that we won games with him instead of tanking.  The numbers bear this out.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2015, 12:07:09 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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I think the hate is from the fact that he can't help THIS team (rebuilding). I thought he was awesome last year and by himself had a couple game winning shots (3?).

Him being here also takes ball handling away from Thomas and Smart and sg/sf time from Bradley and Crowder. All of whom are considered better players.
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Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2015, 12:20:12 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Well for me I don't mind Turner as a bench player his skill and approach is perfect for off the bench. But the team insist on starting him. A negative is he handles the ball way too much instead of moving it. He also isn't a great shooter. I would absolutely still hold on to Turner despite his negatives but he is in last year. I don't think C's can resign him either as Crowder is signed and looks like the long term backup SF. So trading him at least gets you something instead of him just leaving. Decent player entertaining to watch last minute of a game.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2015, 12:31:13 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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I don't *hate* him by any means, but he's definitely not one of my favorite players on the Celtics. He'd be a good bench ball-handler on a good team, and I'd really like him in that role for us someday, especially because he truly is one of the best clutch-time players in the league (no real stat to back that up just the eye test). He had several game-winners last year, and I specifically remember several times that he buried us with a game-winning shot when he was in Philly.


That being said, quotes from him like this probably don't help his cause either.  :)


Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2015, 12:31:14 PM »

Offline greece66

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Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2015, 12:35:14 PM »

Offline jambr380

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ET just did a very ET thing.

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/627154042251288580

I guess, but I always thought Turner's willingness to pass, rebound, etc made him less than your typical 'me first' player...although he does like to be in control of the ball. Because of this, he could actually shoot a LOT more than he actually does.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2015, 12:37:20 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2015, 12:55:51 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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He shoots slowly. His limbs do not seem to be under control at all times. His eyes are opened a little too wide.

More than anything, he seems to be cautious with the ball; I think he has what it takes, actually, to be a terrific NBA shooting guard. Something in his attitude will probably have to change first though. He definitely looks more professional: sharper in his movements - than he did in college. But he lacks that aggression and certainty. He does turn the ball over - and would do it a lot if he didn't work to protect it. I hope he can find that balance of professionalism and aggression that I think he needs to be successful.

What if we said to him: you're the starter at shooting guard - do you? I bet he would respond. But without that confidence, he is going to keep playing to protect the ball.

Compare this Ohio State highlights real:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdEMPnj0cwI

With this Celtics reel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm8AnRoSPrM

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2015, 12:58:42 PM »

Offline apc

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ET just did a very ET thing.

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/627154042251288580
You always have to explain to Americans what offside in soccer means  ;)

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2015, 12:58:51 PM »

Offline jayk009

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Evan Turner is a weird player...he can't really be effective without the ball being in his hands yet teams can't really be that good when he has the ball in his hands.

I think last year was the perfect storm for him in terms of being effective while also being able to have the main ball handling abilities and having the team win. We had to use him out of necessity.

I think he had a great season for us last year...and I don't have any complaints..that being said I really think that any team that can use him as a main player will cap out at 45 wins.

He is really talented but he has an awkward skill set...and he thing is he doesnt know how to be a role player..it's like....he is so close to being able to be an all-star but not close enough...he's not really a good enough shooter or able to move off the ball to be an elite role player....he's extremely talented but just in the wrong areas for him to be able to maximize his potential in the nba.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2015, 01:19:52 PM »

Offline showtime

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I thought he was our MVP last year, and expect him to be better this season!

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2015, 01:41:02 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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Felt like LeBron exposed him in the playoffs last year. He wasn't able to get into the lane once he faced real perimeter D.

Don't think he's good enough to justify the amout of touches he gets.


Who doesn't Lebron expose to some degree.  I am not a Lebron fan. In fact, as I have mentioned before-Why does a Lebron Loss feel like a Celtic Win?

Lebron is arguable one of the better defenders in the NBA-and he can defend multiple positions.
He didn't expose Turner.  As one of the top athletes in the history of the NBA-Lebron simply did what he does to many opposing players on a nightly basis-limited what they want to do.


Turner deserves more respect.  He really does.  Yet he is mentioned in every poorly dreamt up trade from pundits on this blog.  Hell I swear I thought I saw someone want to trade him for Scalabrine in the announcer's booth.

 ???
"Just do what you do best."  -Red Auerbach-

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2015, 01:52:10 PM »

Offline jambr380

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He shoots slowly. His limbs do not seem to be under control at all times. His eyes are opened a little too wide.


I am pretty sure this is the real reason people don't like him...as ridiculous as it sounds.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2015, 01:55:58 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Here is the issue with Turner.  He needs to have the ball a lot (high usage) to be effective.  Overall, for him to have the ball a lot is not a good thing.

So it is a classic catch 22.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2015, 02:07:48 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Here is the issue with Turner.  He needs to have the ball a lot (high usage) to be effective.  Overall, for him to have the ball a lot is not a good thing.

So it is a classic catch 22.

As shown above, it is not necessarily a bad thing when he has the ball.  He passes a lot, and he's an effective passer.  When he takes pull-up jumpers, he makes them at a reasonable rate.  And he doesn't take that many pull-ups relative to his usage.

It's fine to speak in generalities, but the numbers just don't bear out the criticisms.  The main issue with him is that he's got a PG's game in the body of a SF with average athleticism.  You want your PG's to be quick, which turner isn't.  And you want your SF's to be able to shoot of the catch, which Turner can't, or be exceptionally strong and athletic, which Turner isn't.  So he looks wrong.  But his play last year was just fine.

Kyle Anderson was a really popular player on this blog pre-2014 draft, and again this summer league.  To me, Anderson and Turner are pretty similar players -- guys with skillsets that don't match their body types.  But in the case of Turner, he's figured out how to play who he is, and not what people expect from a 6'6" SF.  And that's a useful player.

Also, Turner makes the 8th-most in salary on this team.  He's the 3rd-highest paid SF (if that's what you think he is) or the 4th-highest paid guard, if that's how you classify him.  He's not paid to be a star, and he's definitely providing at least the value his salary would indicate.  Normally when people are down on players who perform reasonably well it's because they're not living up to expectations -- but what expectations could have possibly been set for someone on his contract??

I just don't get it at all.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 02:18:53 PM by saltlover »