Author Topic: Why the hate for Turner?  (Read 16501 times)

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Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2015, 10:35:16 AM »

Offline timpiker

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I like him.  Plays well and knows what he's doing.  He's a hidden crunch time player to me and was last years MVP.  He's a keeper at the right price.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2015, 10:37:54 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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His basketball IQ is so low it's pathetic. He doesn't fit BS's offense because he is so.... Dang... Slow... With the ball. He's an iso player who makes the ball stick. It's so frustrating to watch him iso for 20 seconds in slow motion then throw up a brick.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2015, 10:39:10 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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To use a recent CB discussion: Evan Turner is to a good NBA basketball player what Isaiah Thomas is to Kyrie Irving.


Fun fact: Evan Turner has never posted a positive Box plus minus in his NBA career.

Also, per Crimson Stallion in another thread:
Quote
Turner's Advanced stats this year:

Offensive RPM: -1.09 (58th Among SG)
Defensive RPM: -0.28 (33rd Among SG)
Total RPM: -1.37 (45th among SG)
WAR: 1.39 (30th among SG)

At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2015, 10:41:02 AM »

Offline kheldar52077

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I like him because he is trying to defend and still run the offense unlike the last "defensive" point guard who did not play defense for the last 2 years.    >:(

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2015, 10:42:09 AM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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He's a Celtics.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2015, 10:42:26 AM »

Offline Smartacus

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Felt like LeBron exposed him in the playoffs last year. He wasn't able to get into the lane once he faced real perimeter D.

Don't think he's good enough to justify the amout of touches he gets.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2015, 10:44:32 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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What I like about him is he can play three positions fairly well. He has decent size, and is contract friendly. He actually got away with playing PG for extended minutes during last the season. He's not terrible anywhere you decide to "plug him in"

What I don't like about him is he can't do a dam thing without the ball in his hands. His goal when he doesn't have the ball, is to get the ball back in his hands. He is turnover prone too.

He's not a bad guy to have on a team that spends all their money on 2 or 3 super stars, and the team needs cap space relief, like the Clippers, or Cavs. He can be inserted in and fill many positions, while the big names rest or are in foul trouble.

He's just not a good fit on the Celtics.   

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2015, 10:45:02 AM »

Offline timobusa

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I actually really like ET.
We need a reckless guy out there sometimes.
He knows how to get buckets at the right time.
He has hit multiple game winners in his short career.

And also because he has the best contract in this roster for his production. ($3,425,510 expiring)

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2015, 11:02:46 AM »

Offline Eric M VAN

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Evan Turner is fine when he's the 11th through 15th best player on a team not when he's the 1st through 5th best player. The 6th through 10th is a bit murkier

That's not Turner's fault though.
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Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2015, 11:05:22 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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I used to really hate on Turner, at times I still do, but he genuinely got better as the season professed and played the best NBA ball of his life during our playoff run. I think he still has room to improve. If he could play off the ball AT ALL he'd be much more valuable to us. Part of the problem I have with him going forward is his ball-dominance. You can't have someone that ball dominant next to IT off the bench and you can't really have him start if you want Smart and Rozier to maximize their potential. Deff has value in the league though, he could help a contender running an offense off the bench.

Still, with Wallace gone we need Turner for his sound bytes after a game.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2015, 11:06:05 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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He's a guy who starts and plays big minutes despite the fact that he's mediocre in nearly ever respect and by most measures he's an inefficient offensive player and a poor defensive player.

He filled an important role for last year's team as a secondary ball-handler while Smart and Bradley were on the floor.

Hopefully he won't be needed to fill that role as much this year.
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Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2015, 11:19:54 AM »

Offline saltlover

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His basketball IQ is so low it's pathetic. He doesn't fit BS's offense because he is so.... Dang... Slow... With the ball. He's an iso player who makes the ball stick. It's so frustrating to watch him iso for 20 seconds in slow motion then throw up a brick.

Yeah, that can be frustrating.  It probably doesn't happen all that much, however.  These things get tracked now.  For example, here is the percentage of time on the court each Celtic player had possession of the ball.

Thomas - 21.2%
Rondo - 20.4%
Pressey - 18.3%
Nelson - 17.8%
Turner - 16.0%
Smart - 10.4%
Thornton - 5.5%
Powell - 5.3%
Sullinger - 5.2%
Green - 5.1%
Prince - 4.5%
Bradley - 4.4%
Bass - 4.3%
Olynyk - 4.1%
Randolph - 4.0%
Jerebko - 3.8%
Zeller  - 3.8%
Datome - 3.7%
Crowder - 3.7%
Wallace - 3.4%
Young - 2,8%
Wright - 2.8%

Relative to other primary ballhandlers, Turner didn't have the ball as much.  This partly speaks to his role -- ideally he's a secondary ballhandler, but because Smart wasn't really ready to run an offense, he took some of Smart's duties.  Which was useful.

Anyway, did he chuck up a lot of bricks?  Not all that many for someone in his role -- here's pull-up shooting percentage:

Prince - 47.6%
Turner  - 41.9%
Datome - 40.7%
Bass - 40.6%
Bradley - 38.4%
Thornton - 35.1%
Pressey - 34.9%
Zeller - 33.3%
Green - 33.1%
Thomas - 33%
Olynyk - 32.9%
Crowder - 31.8%
Sullinger - 31%
Rondo - 30.3%
Smart - 30%
Young - 26.1%
Nelson - 22.7%
Jerebko - 15%
Wallace - 0%

When you look at Turner compared to other primary ballhandlers, and pretty much all of the team, he was a good option to take the pull-up jumper.  Is that a good shot in general?  No.  But that's the shot teams try to force you into, and he was not bad at it.

Finally, it's not like he was taking those shots all the time.  Here's pull-up attempts per game:

Bradley - 5.0
Thomas - 5.0
Turner - 4.3
Green - 3.8
Nelson - 3.7 (and he made 22.7% -- talk about offense-killing)
Rondo - 3.5
Thornton - 2.4
Prince - 2.3
Smart - 2.1
Datome - 1.5
Crowder - 1.5
Sullinger - 1.5
Pressey - 1.3
Bass - 1.2
Olynyk - 1.2
Young - 0.7
Jerebko - 0.7
Zeller - 0.1
Wallace - 0.1

Anyway, yes, assuredly there were possessions when Turner got stuck with the ball and heaved up a bad shot.  But they weren't that frequent, either with regards to how much he had the ball or heaved up bad shots.  Again, teams try to prevent layups and open jumpers -- defenses will win possessions and cause pull-up shots to happen.  Turner makes the defense win less often in such instances.  If what you primarily remember from Turner's game is the bad shot, you're a victim of confirmation bias.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2015, 11:21:33 AM »

Offline saltlover

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He's a guy who starts and plays big minutes despite the fact that he's mediocre in nearly ever respect and by most measures he's an inefficient offensive player and a poor defensive player.

He filled an important role for last year's team as a secondary ball-handler while Smart and Bradley were on the floor.

Hopefully he won't be needed to fill that role as much this year.

See my stats above, but Bradley was never a primary ballhandler last year.  ET often was.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2015, 11:23:28 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I believe that's sort of what he's saying, SL -- that Turner was the ballhandler for the team when the three of them were on the floor at the same time.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Why the hate for Turner?
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2015, 11:27:18 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I almost started a similar thread a while ago, but I don't really start threads so TP for this one.

I am late to the game here, but these two quotes basically say it all with Turner:


I don't hate him, but he plays like he's the number one option on a team when he shouldn't be. Low shooting efficiency, high turnovers, and bad defense. Would rather see a player doing those things be a developing player with room for improvement. We already have IT dominating the ball and I think Smarts role will increase significantly this season, so would rather see other guys get a bigger chance to be a playmaker or scorer like Sully, or Rozier/Hunter.


This is my biggest sticking point. I know he's not fast or athletic, and can't hit the 3, but he's actually probably our best player.

He produced consistently down the stretch when he became our primary ballhandler. He's cheap, He can pass, shoot from the midrange, he can drive, he can handle, he has size, he can rebound and he digs in on defense. I want this guy on the floor at all times.

He's a very good player. It's tough penciling him into the 3 spot every night, but you know he needs to be in your lineup.

I think most people would like an upgrade at the SF position if possible, but the guy actually does it all (including rebounding) and was a key to our team getting to the playoffs last year. So many people picked on Green for showing little else to his game than the occasional scoring outburst; Turner actually consistently filled up the stat sheet. I always just assumed that people 'hating' on him just didn't like him, personally.