Poll

Would you go Full Hinkie mode.

Yes. Hinkie is God.
3 (7%)
No. Hinkie is stupid or something.
40 (93%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Author Topic: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.  (Read 4534 times)

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Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2015, 06:42:22 PM »

Offline oldtype

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I think that there is a strong distinction to be made between full Hinkie versus wanting to fight like hell and just miss the playoffs. Many people pejoratively call not wanting to make the playoffs "tanking", and equate it to full Hinkie and everything in between. They're wrong.




You're assuming that "fight[ing] like hell and just miss the playoffs" is something you can do consciously though. I would have loved it if we ended up in Miami's spot last year, (and still loved being in the playoffs regardless), but how do you tell your players "I want you guys to be just good enough to get a lottery pick, and no better."

If what you're saying is "I just wish we didn't make the playoffs last year," then I can agree.


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Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2015, 06:50:06 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If what you're saying is "I just wish we didn't make the playoffs last year," then I can agree.

I agree, it's not something you can tell your players to do. 

I think when somebody says, "I wish they had fought like hell and just missed the playoffs," they mean, "I wanted to see them play hard, but I wanted them to miss the playoffs because I don't think they belonged there, they belonged in the lottery."  That makes sense.  The Celtics have less top talent than at least half the teams that ended up in the lottery.

I think the real difference maker last year was when Danny chose to trade Prince for Jerebko and Datome, two experienced shooters, and hold onto Bass instead of waiving him.


Trading for Thomas obviously made a difference, too, but the Celts don't make the playoffs if Bass, Jerebko, and Datome were not on the roster and D-Leaguers like Babb were playing in their stead.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 06:55:45 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2015, 06:59:01 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I think that there is a strong distinction to be made between full Hinkie versus wanting to fight like hell and just miss the playoffs. Many people pejoratively call not wanting to make the playoffs "tanking", and equate it to full Hinkie and everything in between. They're wrong.




You're assuming that "fight[ing] like hell and just miss the playoffs" is something you can do consciously though. I would have loved it if we ended up in Miami's spot last year, (and still loved being in the playoffs regardless), but how do you tell your players "I want you guys to be just good enough to get a lottery pick, and no better."

If what you're saying is "I just wish we didn't make the playoffs last year," then I can agree.

Throw James Young out there ;), lol ;D.

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2015, 07:02:44 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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If what you're saying is "I just wish we didn't make the playoffs last year," then I can agree.

I agree, it's not something you can tell your players to do. 

I think when somebody says, "I wish they had fought like hell and just missed the playoffs," they mean, "I wanted to see them play hard, but I wanted them to miss the playoffs because I don't think they belonged there, they belonged in the lottery."  That makes sense.  The Celtics have less top talent than at least half the teams that ended up in the lottery.

I think the real difference maker last year was when Danny chose to trade Prince for Jerebko and Datome, two experienced shooters, and hold onto Bass instead of waiving him.


Trading for Thomas obviously made a difference, too, but the Celts don't make the playoffs if Bass, Jerebko, and Datome were not on the roster and D-Leaguers like Babb were playing in their stead.

I think a lot of people are overlooking and underrating the contributions and leadership of Tayshaun Prince.  Sure, he wasn't here for long, but that was the turning point, in terms of victories, imo, as we really came together, especially on defense, as a unit after he showed up.  Isaiah kept that momentum going, but he didn't start it.

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2015, 07:07:11 PM »

Offline greece66

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I think a lot of people are overlooking and underrating the contributions and leadership of Tayshaun Prince.  Sure, he wasn't here for long, but that was the turning point, in terms of victories, imo, as we really came together, especially on defense, as a unit after he showed up.  Isaiah kept that momentum going, but he didn't start it.
True that. Prince was great.

His FT% was incredible.

I actually wanted us to keep him.

I think he felt (not without reason) somehow offended that we traded him.

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2015, 07:13:19 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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No.

Actually I'm trying to think of things that I would have done differently to Ainge, and I'm really having trouble thinking of things.

I considered maybe Keeping Pierce and KG for one more year and then letting them walk as free agents - then we would theoretically have had about $30M come off the books and could have tried to go after a free agent. 

But then I realised it wouldn't change much. 

Having the cap space sooner certainly doesn't assure that we'd have gotten a key free agent a year ago (as we learnt this year) and we wouldn't have all of these Brooklyn picks (which have legit value right now) and we may not have half the young talented pieces we do, because a number of them were acquired through deals that wouldn't have happened.

So I look at what Danny has done, and honestly I have to say that I wouldn't have done anything differently, even in hindsight.  He gave up Pierce and KG at exactly the right time (both declined significantly the next season) to the right team, for the right pieces.  He got us three nice picks this year who I believe will all become good NBA rotation players) and going 3/3 on a draft is pretty much unheard of. He has a ton of young guys with some upside and some value as trade assets.  He has Tons of future picks.

He also took a gamble on Brad Stevens, which has turned out better than any of us could have possibly imagined.

Oh, and we went from Big-3 Era to full tank mode, to playoffs all in the space of three seasons - that's an amazing feat.

Honestly, I cannot fault him.  I think that he has achieved as much as could have possibly be achieved given the opportunities he had presented to him.

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2015, 07:19:47 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think a lot of people are overlooking and underrating the contributions and leadership of Tayshaun Prince.  Sure, he wasn't here for long, but that was the turning point, in terms of victories, imo, as we really came together, especially on defense, as a unit after he showed up.  Isaiah kept that momentum going, but he didn't start it.

Agree.  Prince was good in his time here, however short.  Made a bigger impact than Jeff Green.

I'm not suggesting Prince wasn't useful, I'm suggesting that exchanging Prince for a couple of rotation players on expiring deals instead of just waiving him, combined with holding onto Bass, helped the team stay in the playoff hunt even though it didn't do much in terms of adding future assets.  It was purely a win-now thing.
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Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2015, 07:20:53 PM »

Offline LGC88

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I think a lot of people are overlooking and underrating the contributions and leadership of Tayshaun Prince.  Sure, he wasn't here for long, but that was the turning point, in terms of victories, imo, as we really came together, especially on defense, as a unit after he showed up.  Isaiah kept that momentum going, but he didn't start it.
True that. Prince was great.

His FT% was incredible.

I actually wanted us to keep him.

I think he felt (not without reason) somehow offended that we traded him.

Players that made lot of millions during their career and get sensitive when they get traded... I will think about empathizing with them when I'll have a bit of free time in my life (I'm a very busy person btw).
I like Prince too, but I'll do this trade over an over again. Gigi one year and Jerebko 2 or 3 years as Celtics is something that makes me happy as a fan. Just love those type of players that fit right in and embrace the Celtics culture.

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2015, 07:21:43 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I think that there is a strong distinction to be made between full Hinkie versus wanting to fight like hell and just miss the playoffs. Many people pejoratively call not wanting to make the playoffs "tanking", and equate it to full Hinkie and everything in between. They're wrong.




You're assuming that "fight[ing] like hell and just miss the playoffs" is something you can do consciously though. I would have loved it if we ended up in Miami's spot last year, (and still loved being in the playoffs regardless), but how do you tell your players "I want you guys to be just good enough to get a lottery pick, and no better."

If what you're saying is "I just wish we didn't make the playoffs last year," then I can agree.

Throw James Young out there ;), lol ;D.

 ;D  ;D  ;D

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2015, 07:23:13 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I think a lot of people are overlooking and underrating the contributions and leadership of Tayshaun Prince.  Sure, he wasn't here for long, but that was the turning point, in terms of victories, imo, as we really came together, especially on defense, as a unit after he showed up.  Isaiah kept that momentum going, but he didn't start it.
True that. Prince was great.

His FT% was incredible.

I actually wanted us to keep him.

I think he felt (not without reason) somehow offended that we traded him.

Players that made lot of millions during their career and get sensitive when they get traded... I will think about empathizing with them when I'll have a bit of free time in my life (I'm a very busy person btw).
I like Prince too, but I'll do this trade over an over again. Gigi one year and Jerebko 2 or 3 years as Celtics is something that makes me happy as a fan. Just love those type of players that fit right in and embrace the Celtics culture.

I also feel like Jerebko might already have more impact than Prince.  Jerebko's impact I think is really underrated - he's not flashy nor does he stuff stat sheets, but he does a LOT of stuff out there that doesn't show up on the stats.

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2015, 07:23:30 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Honestly, I cannot fault him.  I think that he has achieved as much as could have possibly be achieved given the opportunities he had presented to him.
I'm very pro-Danny right now.

Taking Olynyk with Giannis on the board looks, now, like it might have been a mistake but a bunch of other teams made the mistake, so its hard to fault him too much for that.
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Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2015, 07:24:41 PM »

Offline ahonui06

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I think a lot of people are overlooking and underrating the contributions and leadership of Tayshaun Prince.  Sure, he wasn't here for long, but that was the turning point, in terms of victories, imo, as we really came together, especially on defense, as a unit after he showed up.  Isaiah kept that momentum going, but he didn't start it.
True that. Prince was great.

His FT% was incredible.

I actually wanted us to keep him.

I think he felt (not without reason) somehow offended that we traded him.

Players that made lot of millions during their career and get sensitive when they get traded... I will think about empathizing with them when I'll have a bit of free time in my life (I'm a very busy person btw).
I like Prince too, but I'll do this trade over an over again. Gigi one year and Jerebko 2 or 3 years as Celtics is something that makes me happy as a fan. Just love those type of players that fit right in and embrace the Celtics culture.

I also feel like Jerebko might already have more impact than Prince.  Jerebko's impact I think is really underrated - he's not flashy nor does he stuff stat sheets, but he does a LOT of stuff out there that doesn't show up on the stats.

I definitely rather have Jerebko than Prince. Younger and seems enthusiastic and willing to play for Boston.

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2015, 07:29:47 PM »

Offline oldtype

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I dunno, would we have been significantly worse had we kept Prince instead of Jerebko?

If we had cut Bass (or gave him away for nothing), it would just have been some combination of Zeller/KO/Crowder/Jerebko (or Prince) getting more playing time, which wouldn't have moved the needle that much.

What we needed to do in order to miss the playoffs was either trade away Bradley or miss out on a fantastic value trade for Thomas. I don't think I would have been willing to do either to move up 4 slots.


Great words from a great man

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2015, 07:35:57 PM »

Offline LGC88

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I think a lot of people are overlooking and underrating the contributions and leadership of Tayshaun Prince.  Sure, he wasn't here for long, but that was the turning point, in terms of victories, imo, as we really came together, especially on defense, as a unit after he showed up.  Isaiah kept that momentum going, but he didn't start it.
True that. Prince was great.

His FT% was incredible.

I actually wanted us to keep him.

I think he felt (not without reason) somehow offended that we traded him.

Players that made lot of millions during their career and get sensitive when they get traded... I will think about empathizing with them when I'll have a bit of free time in my life (I'm a very busy person btw).
I like Prince too, but I'll do this trade over an over again. Gigi one year and Jerebko 2 or 3 years as Celtics is something that makes me happy as a fan. Just love those type of players that fit right in and embrace the Celtics culture.

I also feel like Jerebko might already have more impact than Prince.  Jerebko's impact I think is really underrated - he's not flashy nor does he stuff stat sheets, but he does a LOT of stuff out there that doesn't show up on the stats.

I definitely rather have Jerebko than Prince. Younger and seems enthusiastic and willing to play for Boston.

Indeed.
For those who haven't seen Jerebko sit down interview, check his answer on why he chose to resign in Boston.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcWKUqiSle8

Re: Poll: Who would go Full Hinkie mode If you were the Boss.
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2015, 08:49:29 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I dunno, would we have been significantly worse had we kept Prince instead of Jerebko?

If we had cut Bass (or gave him away for nothing), it would just have been some combination of Zeller/KO/Crowder/Jerebko (or Prince) getting more playing time, which wouldn't have moved the needle that much.

What we needed to do in order to miss the playoffs was either trade away Bradley or miss out on a fantastic value trade for Thomas. I don't think I would have been willing to do either to move up 4 slots.

It's not that we would have been significantly worse based on talent, but I'm trying to look at things from two dimensions - the 'now' and the 'future'.  I think Danny has that same viewpoint too.

In the 'now' (i.e. last season) Prince may have had just as much impact for us as Jerebko did.  But he's old now.  It's inevitable that he's going to decline soon in a big way, there's a good chance he'll retire after this year, and he has zero upside.

Jerebko offers essentially everything that Prince does in the 'now', but offers us a lot more in the 'future' because:

1) He's likely to keep giving us that production for years to come
2) He's likely to only get better with time

If we had Prince, I can almost assure you we would not have re-signed him this year.  That basically means it would have been about the same as us having Jerebko, but letting him walk.

I'd rather be in the Jerebko situation (same type of impact, but he's still with us for the next few years) than the Prince situation (same impact, but lose that impact this year).

Hence why i'm in the "anti Hinkie" category haha