Author Topic: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...  (Read 14926 times)

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Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2015, 03:05:56 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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It's all kind of subjective.  I have very little expectations of our rookies and doubt any become starters.  I'd have no qualms trading the whole lot of em for a shot at healthy Embiid.  Given that we tried to give up twice as much for the #9 pick, I don't feel too awkward suggesting it. 

But if there's a better than 50% chance that Embiid's career is over, I guess it would be a bit crazy to trade for him.  Nobody knows what his actual situation entails though.

It's a fair call and is (of course) subjective.

Personally though, I disagree on


This is a pre-draft prediction, based on all the variables stated above.

My understanding is that:

a) The probabilities are generated based on semi-objective data gathered from past draft's days (e.g. in the past 30 years, 15 players taken at #16 turned out busts - hence there is a 50% probability that a player taken at #16 will be a bust).

I say semi-objective because obviously there needs to be at least some subjectivity in what separates a 'rotation player' from or a 'good rotation player', a 'good rotation player' from a 'star' etc.

Is Rudy Gay a 'good rotation player' or is he a 'star'?  How about Tyreke Evans, or Demar Derozan?  Is Amir Johnson a 'rotation player', or a 'good rotation player'?  How about Avery Bradley?

You get what I'm saying.


b) The predicted draft positions are based on subjective analysis - somebody sits there, watches tape of a guy, and says "I think this guy fits team x, and they are picking at #8, so I'm thinking he'll probably go at #8". But then somebody like Cleveland goes and selects that player at #1.  So is the probably of success for this player based on a #8 slot (which was subjectively determined as a spot that makes sense for their talent level) or a #1 slot (where the real world team was actually willing to draft them)?

For example, Danny apparently really like Rozier - hence why he got him in for a second workout.  Really felt the kid had sky high potential.  So, assuming Danny landed higher in the draft than he actually did - how high would he have had to go in order for him to take another player over Rozier?

If he drafted at #14 instead of #16, he may have still taken him.  If he drafted at 11 (and Winslow was gone) he may have still taken him.  We really don't know much - all we know is that if Danny in #10 or higher, he wouldn't have taken Rozier (since we already know he was willing to trade up for Winslow). 

So now we're at a point where the team selecting has a strong influence on where a player gets drafted.  If Danny was drafting at #11 and still selected Rozier, then is the probability of Rozier becoming a star still '0.7%'?  Naturally no, and yet in reality this probability hasn't changed because he is exactly the same player regardless of where he was taken.     

This is why applying the logic post-draft to the players taken at position X doesn't really work.  If you're analysing the chance of certain players becoming stars (etc) then you'd probably get much more accurate results by basing it on their talents compared to similar players from past drafts.

For example, in Embiid's case:

How many long, athletic, 7'0" centers who are good at shot-blocking, rebounding and post scoring have gone on to be stars / rotation players / busts.

I wonder if anybody has a statistical system that works based off attributes like that?  I've no doubts it'd be easy enough to come up with one that based on individual aspects that fall within the following broad criteria:

a) Physical attributes (height, weight, size, length, vertical, etc)
b) Position
c) Medical risk (foot history, back history, shoulder history, ankle history, no history, etc)
d) Tangible talents/skills (rebounding, passing, shooting, etc)
e) Intangible talents/skills (IQ, work ethic, selflessness, etc)

People have always been quick to point out that certain skills and/or attributes are more likely to translate to the NBA than others.  If you captured information on all of the above, since the first draft in 1984 (or whatever it was) with a conclusion on how good that player ended up becoming...I'm sure that would give you a pretty powerful tool for predicting the likely success of future draftees.


Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2015, 03:15:46 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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My thoughts on some of the conversations taking place in this thread:

1) I thought Phoenix was renowned for its training staff, not necessarily the medical staff. I know they are related and obviously both sides work together, but it should be two separate departments. The training staff would ensure players, when healthy, are in good shape and don't get reinjured, with guidance from the medical staff of course.

2) If Philly decides to shop Embiid now it would be selling at the lowest possible point, so I would then suspect their medical team has determined he's a lost cause. We already know the Hornets accused them of not revealing all their medical info on Holiday before that deal, so you have to be very careful dealing with the Sixers. The misinformation coming out about Embiid's injury a few weeks ago was very shady as well.

3) Besides Wiggins and Parker you still had to take Embiid if he was on the board. The potential was just too great and big men are so rare. Even if he never plays you can't really blame the Sixers for taking a shot. Also, two years out of the league isn't a humongous deal in the long-term. Blake missed a year and now nobody remembers it. Should the Clippers have taken someone else? They still are going to benefit from at least 6-8 of years of Blake's career when all is said and done, with a good chunk of it in his prime.

4) Philly will be fine. They still have the swap rights with Sac and the Lakers pick has a good shot of being 4-8. That's a lot of ping pong balls in their favor, even if it's supposed to be a weak draft.

5) The Celtics staff clearing Embiid doesn't mean much. The Sixers could have messed up, sure, but medical science is not an exact thing. There is definitely lots of misinformation put out there before the draft, but I think the Celtics would be trying to get Embiid to fall to them, not the other way around.

1).  To your point on the Suns, I guess that I never thought of it that way.  What I distinctly remember, though, is that one of the main reasons for their success is that they were the first team to have that cryo-chamber thing that Pierce, KG, and Lebron use.  I read about Michael Redd saying that he and Nash would sit in there for like an hour or so before the game, and for some reason it greatly reduces the wear and tear on your muscles.  The cryo chamber was made to Ainge a few years ago, and he said that the Celtics have one, so, what's the problem?  Did they plug it in or assemble it wrong, or did we just get the defective one, lol ;D?  Was the manual in Korean?  Did they put dry ice from the smoke machine in there by mistake? ;D

2).  While that is true about Holiday, at least he can still play.  I understand why you would want to be cautious in dealing with them in the future (funny, that was always our image ::), lol ;D), but I simply cannot comprehend why everyone is focusing so much on the 76ers in this regard when the true villain, as always ;D, is the Lakers.  Has everyone forgotten how they got Howard for a Bynum who never played a single game for Philadelphia?  The guy was a lemon.  Why is this being overlooked, or is it simply because the lakers can do no wrong in the eyes of the league, which has been their history?  Ridiculous.

3).  Yep, I agree.  It's always difficult to find great big men, but I'd say it's even harder now because the current era is the best one, ever, for point guards.  TP for everything you've said in your post :).

To be honest I'm not so concerned with training staffs, instead I'm fascinated by shooting coaches. You hear stories about shooting gurus like Chip Engelland in San Antonio and how he totally modified Kawhi's shooting form. It's almost like a video game or RPG where adding this item increases everyone on your team's shooting ability 25%. Think of what a great advantage that is, especially since one of the biggest skills players lack in the draft is shooting.

It's also a great way to ensure loyalty to your organization when it comes to re-signing players (training staffs can do this as well). Why would anybody want to leave if they knew staying with a certain team would continue to benefit their shooting or health?

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2015, 08:49:35 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

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link to article?
http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/where-does-joel-embiid-rank-among-sixers-assets-now

Quote
If the Sixers hypothetically tried to move Embiid right now, what might they get in return? As a rough thought experiment, I asked around. One longtime league executive said he?s worth ?a real protected first.? When I asked if the Sixers could get into the lottery for Embiid, the reply was quick: ?No.? Another longtime front office man disagreed slightly and said he?d go ?back end of the lottery, maybe? for Embiid. He called it a ?dice roll? for teams that are starting over and want to gamble. Those are just two opinions, and Hinkie has done pretty well for himself when negotiating with other front offices (poor, overmatched Vlade Divac), but it?s evident that, at present, it would be hard to find a return approaching the third overall pick that the Sixers invested in Embiid. It?s hold him and hope, or move him and take a huge loss on the investment. The first option seems smartest and most likely.

I'll say it's hard to have an opinion on this, though as Philly has been pretty weird about disclosing information about Embiid's situation.  For several weeks they claimed he hadn't rebroken the bone... and now suddenly reports are coming out that he did indeed refracture it.  So you'd have to expect a very very thorough examination of Embiid and his medical history before making any offer at all.  But assuming there's a better than 50% chance he comes back 100% next season, I'd trade Rozier + Hunter + Mickey for him.   Those guys will all spend the bulk of their time in dleague this year anyways.  Combining all of them with the #15 pick wasn't enough to move up to #9.... So the three of them alone for Embiid sounds like a win for Boston (presuming Embiid had a chance of recovery and Philly was even open to such a sell-low proposition). 

I don't see Philly attempting to sell low on Embiid right now, so let's not spend too much time debating about whether it's too much to give up for him.  It's just a hypothetical and there is so much we don't know.  Who knows what else Philly is blatantly lying about.

If his value is indeed a "real protected first," why are we even talking about our current rookies? We have plenty of those to offer.

(All hypothetical of course, I think it's unlikely that Philly trades him or anyone trades for him at this point.)
Just saying what I'd be comfortable doing.  I imagine Embiid could still fetch a lotto pick.   None of our rookies are worth lotto picks.

It's a moot point, because I don't see Embiid getting traded and I wouldn't do a trade without first getting assurance that there was a better than 50% chance he'd come back 100%... and that information isn't public.  Who knows what's going on there... apparently Philly has just been lying to the public about all sorts of stuff.  Crazy.

So in effect, you'd trade all four of our rookies (three if we assume Thornton is basically a zero) for a late lotto pick? (let's say 10-14 range)
My rationalization:

Each rookie individually probably has a 2% chance of becoming a superstar (that's generous).

Healthy embiid probably has a 80% chance of being a superstar.

If there's a better than 50% chance of embiid being healthy, I have no problem giving up these mediocre young guys with no star potential for a shot at a superstar.   I trust that ainge agrees or he wouldn't have offered an ever greater package for #9.

If you state that in general rookies have a 2% chance of becoming a star what makes you believe Embiid is 40 times more likely to become one? 

Especially, given the injury history leading up to the draft and the fact those injuries have continued into his NBA career. Embiid has yet to log an NBA minute of playing time.

That being said I wouldn't be opposed to trading picks/players for the right package, but I wouldn't be so hasty to trade everything away for a 76ers big man.

If you believe the statistical regressions that just started being used as to predict boom/bust potential, the rookies probabilities are closer to: 1% (star), 20% (starter); Embiid is probably more like 15% star, 40% starter.

That would be more of a common prediction, though, without the health concerns. For Embiid, I'd probably lower starter, increase role player (not listed), and leave start where it is or slightly higher.

Good call...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/projecting-the-top-50-players-in-the-2015-nba-draft-class/

Rozier = 0.7% chance star.  18% chance at being a starter.  50% chance he busts.

Hunter = 0.4% star.  12 % starter.  49% bust.

These guys effectively have less than 1% chance of being stars in this league.  Sure, I have no problem packaging d-league talent for a shot at a real superstar.   If I got word that embiid had a better than 50% chance of recovering fully, I'd trade these mediocre rooks gladly.  We'll be lucky if any of them turn into rotation players.

What a completely asinine article.

Ridiculous.

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2015, 08:58:06 AM »

Offline greece66

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1).  To your point on the Suns, I guess that I never thought of it that way.  What I distinctly remember, though, is that one of the main reasons for their success is that they were the first team to have that cryo-chamber thing that Pierce, KG, and Lebron use.  I read about Michael Redd saying that he and Nash would sit in there for like an hour or so before the game, and for some reason it greatly reduces the wear and tear on your muscles.  The cryo chamber was made to Ainge a few years ago, and he said that the Celtics have one, so, what's the problem?  Did they plug it in or assemble it wrong, or did we just get the defective one, lol ;D?  Was the manual in Korean?  Did they put dry ice from the smoke machine in there by mistake? ;D

2).  While that is true about Holiday, at least he can still play.  I understand why you would want to be cautious in dealing with them in the future (funny, that was always our image ::), lol ;D), but I simply cannot comprehend why everyone is focusing so much on the 76ers in this regard when the true villain, as always ;D, is the Lakers.  Has everyone forgotten how they got Howard for a Bynum who never played a single game for Philadelphia?  The guy was a lemon.  Why is this being overlooked, or is it simply because the lakers can do no wrong in the eyes of the league, which has been their history?  Ridiculous.

3).  Yep, I agree.  It's always difficult to find great big men, but I'd say it's even harder now because the current era is the best one, ever, for point guards.  TP for everything you've said in your post :).

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2015, 09:22:23 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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link to article?
http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/where-does-joel-embiid-rank-among-sixers-assets-now

Quote
If the Sixers hypothetically tried to move Embiid right now, what might they get in return? As a rough thought experiment, I asked around. One longtime league executive said he?s worth ?a real protected first.? When I asked if the Sixers could get into the lottery for Embiid, the reply was quick: ?No.? Another longtime front office man disagreed slightly and said he?d go ?back end of the lottery, maybe? for Embiid. He called it a ?dice roll? for teams that are starting over and want to gamble. Those are just two opinions, and Hinkie has done pretty well for himself when negotiating with other front offices (poor, overmatched Vlade Divac), but it?s evident that, at present, it would be hard to find a return approaching the third overall pick that the Sixers invested in Embiid. It?s hold him and hope, or move him and take a huge loss on the investment. The first option seems smartest and most likely.

I'll say it's hard to have an opinion on this, though as Philly has been pretty weird about disclosing information about Embiid's situation.  For several weeks they claimed he hadn't rebroken the bone... and now suddenly reports are coming out that he did indeed refracture it.  So you'd have to expect a very very thorough examination of Embiid and his medical history before making any offer at all.  But assuming there's a better than 50% chance he comes back 100% next season, I'd trade Rozier + Hunter + Mickey for him.   Those guys will all spend the bulk of their time in dleague this year anyways.  Combining all of them with the #15 pick wasn't enough to move up to #9.... So the three of them alone for Embiid sounds like a win for Boston (presuming Embiid had a chance of recovery and Philly was even open to such a sell-low proposition). 

I don't see Philly attempting to sell low on Embiid right now, so let's not spend too much time debating about whether it's too much to give up for him.  It's just a hypothetical and there is so much we don't know.  Who knows what else Philly is blatantly lying about.

If his value is indeed a "real protected first," why are we even talking about our current rookies? We have plenty of those to offer.

(All hypothetical of course, I think it's unlikely that Philly trades him or anyone trades for him at this point.)
Just saying what I'd be comfortable doing.  I imagine Embiid could still fetch a lotto pick.   None of our rookies are worth lotto picks.

It's a moot point, because I don't see Embiid getting traded and I wouldn't do a trade without first getting assurance that there was a better than 50% chance he'd come back 100%... and that information isn't public.  Who knows what's going on there... apparently Philly has just been lying to the public about all sorts of stuff.  Crazy.

So in effect, you'd trade all four of our rookies (three if we assume Thornton is basically a zero) for a late lotto pick? (let's say 10-14 range)
My rationalization:

Each rookie individually probably has a 2% chance of becoming a superstar (that's generous).

Healthy embiid probably has a 80% chance of being a superstar.

If there's a better than 50% chance of embiid being healthy, I have no problem giving up these mediocre young guys with no star potential for a shot at a superstar.   I trust that ainge agrees or he wouldn't have offered an ever greater package for #9.

If you state that in general rookies have a 2% chance of becoming a star what makes you believe Embiid is 40 times more likely to become one? 

Especially, given the injury history leading up to the draft and the fact those injuries have continued into his NBA career. Embiid has yet to log an NBA minute of playing time.

That being said I wouldn't be opposed to trading picks/players for the right package, but I wouldn't be so hasty to trade everything away for a 76ers big man.

If you believe the statistical regressions that just started being used as to predict boom/bust potential, the rookies probabilities are closer to: 1% (star), 20% (starter); Embiid is probably more like 15% star, 40% starter.

That would be more of a common prediction, though, without the health concerns. For Embiid, I'd probably lower starter, increase role player (not listed), and leave start where it is or slightly higher.

Good call...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/projecting-the-top-50-players-in-the-2015-nba-draft-class/

Rozier = 0.7% chance star.  18% chance at being a starter.  50% chance he busts.

Hunter = 0.4% star.  12 % starter.  49% bust.

These guys effectively have less than 1% chance of being stars in this league.  Sure, I have no problem packaging d-league talent for a shot at a real superstar.   If I got word that embiid had a better than 50% chance of recovering fully, I'd trade these mediocre rooks gladly.  We'll be lucky if any of them turn into rotation players.

What a completely asinine article.

Ridiculous.

You are saying this because you don't agree with the conclusion, I assume, not because the article is actually asinine.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2015, 08:37:02 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Another double post. a;lksdjf. I'm going to make something up anyway..

EDIT: Beat LA, you're a boss, and you've got a special place...

in hell? ;D

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2015, 08:41:29 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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1).  To your point on the Suns, I guess that I never thought of it that way.  What I distinctly remember, though, is that one of the main reasons for their success is that they were the first team to have that cryo-chamber thing that Pierce, KG, and Lebron use.  I read about Michael Redd saying that he and Nash would sit in there for like an hour or so before the game, and for some reason it greatly reduces the wear and tear on your muscles.  The cryo chamber was made to Ainge a few years ago, and he said that the Celtics have one, so, what's the problem?  Did they plug it in or assemble it wrong, or did we just get the defective one, lol ;D?  Was the manual in Korean?  Did they put dry ice from the smoke machine in there by mistake? ;D

2).  While that is true about Holiday, at least he can still play.  I understand why you would want to be cautious in dealing with them in the future (funny, that was always our image ::), lol ;D), but I simply cannot comprehend why everyone is focusing so much on the 76ers in this regard when the true villain, as always ;D, is the Lakers.  Has everyone forgotten how they got Howard for a Bynum who never played a single game for Philadelphia?  The guy was a lemon.  Why is this being overlooked, or is it simply because the lakers can do no wrong in the eyes of the league, which has been their history?  Ridiculous.

3).  Yep, I agree.  It's always difficult to find great big men, but I'd say it's even harder now because the current era is the best one, ever, for point guards.  TP for everything you've said in your post :).


Lol, I have my own meme now? ;D TP for the laugh, man - well done ;D. Technically, though, it should be 'beatla doesn't ALWAYS use emojiis, but when he does, it's an overkill.'  I've seen that dam ad on tv and it's corresponding memes too many times on facebook not to spot that mistake.  How pathetic is that? *facepalm*

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2015, 08:55:05 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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link to article?
http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/where-does-joel-embiid-rank-among-sixers-assets-now

Quote
If the Sixers hypothetically tried to move Embiid right now, what might they get in return? As a rough thought experiment, I asked around. One longtime league executive said he?s worth ?a real protected first.? When I asked if the Sixers could get into the lottery for Embiid, the reply was quick: ?No.? Another longtime front office man disagreed slightly and said he?d go ?back end of the lottery, maybe? for Embiid. He called it a ?dice roll? for teams that are starting over and want to gamble. Those are just two opinions, and Hinkie has done pretty well for himself when negotiating with other front offices (poor, overmatched Vlade Divac), but it?s evident that, at present, it would be hard to find a return approaching the third overall pick that the Sixers invested in Embiid. It?s hold him and hope, or move him and take a huge loss on the investment. The first option seems smartest and most likely.

I'll say it's hard to have an opinion on this, though as Philly has been pretty weird about disclosing information about Embiid's situation.  For several weeks they claimed he hadn't rebroken the bone... and now suddenly reports are coming out that he did indeed refracture it.  So you'd have to expect a very very thorough examination of Embiid and his medical history before making any offer at all.  But assuming there's a better than 50% chance he comes back 100% next season, I'd trade Rozier + Hunter + Mickey for him.   Those guys will all spend the bulk of their time in dleague this year anyways.  Combining all of them with the #15 pick wasn't enough to move up to #9.... So the three of them alone for Embiid sounds like a win for Boston (presuming Embiid had a chance of recovery and Philly was even open to such a sell-low proposition). 

I don't see Philly attempting to sell low on Embiid right now, so let's not spend too much time debating about whether it's too much to give up for him.  It's just a hypothetical and there is so much we don't know.  Who knows what else Philly is blatantly lying about.

If his value is indeed a "real protected first," why are we even talking about our current rookies? We have plenty of those to offer.

(All hypothetical of course, I think it's unlikely that Philly trades him or anyone trades for him at this point.)
Just saying what I'd be comfortable doing.  I imagine Embiid could still fetch a lotto pick.   None of our rookies are worth lotto picks.

It's a moot point, because I don't see Embiid getting traded and I wouldn't do a trade without first getting assurance that there was a better than 50% chance he'd come back 100%... and that information isn't public.  Who knows what's going on there... apparently Philly has just been lying to the public about all sorts of stuff.  Crazy.

So in effect, you'd trade all four of our rookies (three if we assume Thornton is basically a zero) for a late lotto pick? (let's say 10-14 range)
My rationalization:

Each rookie individually probably has a 2% chance of becoming a superstar (that's generous).

Healthy embiid probably has a 80% chance of being a superstar.

If there's a better than 50% chance of embiid being healthy, I have no problem giving up these mediocre young guys with no star potential for a shot at a superstar.   I trust that ainge agrees or he wouldn't have offered an ever greater package for #9.

You overrate other teams assets and underrate the C's continuously. Ainge offered that package because Winslow fell and the C's have numerous picks. That has nothing to do with a Embiid who is looking like he'll never set foot on an NBA floor.

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2015, 09:21:50 PM »

Offline greece66

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Ta Da  ;D


Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2015, 09:49:38 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2015, 04:47:51 PM »

Offline 33_Larry Legend_33

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I appreciate the dialogue here...

I understand fully that there is not some 100%, perfect scenario to predict a player's health. 

But having watched over 30 years' worth of basketball in my lifetime, there is one thing I'd be VERY wary of when it comes to BIG MEN: foot injuries.  I've seen too many that never heal, and become a long-term issue.

Embiid is a HUGE man.  To put all that weight on his feet, well, that's just asking for a problem.  I honestly don't think he'll play much.  Because even if he heals up, it's just a time-bomb waiting to explode again.

There's a difference between a lighter weight player and a man with a big frame.  I remember Michael Jordan's rookie season being plagued by a foot injury (broken if I recall correctly).  But if the Celtics staff thought this was no big deal...I just question the collective wisdom on knowing that a man of Embiid's weight and frame could come back from this.  It's all speculation, but the part I found "slightly alarming" is how the medical team gave the go-ahead on him if available.

This is a new time in NBA basketball.  You simply cannot waste a pick that high on a gamble.  I'd now take the guard or wing that is healthy over the big with a known foot problem.  If he pans out with another team, so be it...  But I'd rather take the safer route and let that be someone else's problem.

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2015, 05:25:10 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I appreciate the dialogue here...

I understand fully that there is not some 100%, perfect scenario to predict a player's health. 

But having watched over 30 years' worth of basketball in my lifetime, there is one thing I'd be VERY wary of when it comes to BIG MEN: foot injuries.  I've seen too many that never heal, and become a long-term issue.

Embiid is a HUGE man.  To put all that weight on his feet, well, that's just asking for a problem.  I honestly don't think he'll play much.  Because even if he heals up, it's just a time-bomb waiting to explode again.

There's a difference between a lighter weight player and a man with a big frame.  I remember Michael Jordan's rookie season being plagued by a foot injury (broken if I recall correctly).  But if the Celtics staff thought this was no big deal...I just question the collective wisdom on knowing that a man of Embiid's weight and frame could come back from this.  It's all speculation, but the part I found "slightly alarming" is how the medical team gave the go-ahead on him if available.

This is a new time in NBA basketball.  You simply cannot waste a pick that high on a gamble.  I'd now take the guard or wing that is healthy over the big with a known foot problem.  If he pans out with another team, so be it...  But I'd rather take the safer route and let that be someone else's problem.


I think a big factor to his injuries is that Embiid was jumping and dunking like a guard sometimes, which just puts waaayyyy too much stress on his legs/feet for a guy his size. If he understands that, and adjusts his game, he may be ok going forward. He can be quite dominant without doing that. I mean, guys like Olajuwon and Shaq and Duncan never did between the legs dunks , ever. This kid does it in warmups. No wonder he is always injured.

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2015, 05:52:35 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Dodged

A

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Bullet

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #73 on: August 02, 2015, 06:19:58 PM »

Offline Celts Fan 508

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1).  To your point on the Suns, I guess that I never thought of it that way.  What I distinctly remember, though, is that one of the main reasons for their success is that they were the first team to have that cryo-chamber thing that Pierce, KG, and Lebron use.  I read about Michael Redd saying that he and Nash would sit in there for like an hour or so before the game, and for some reason it greatly reduces the wear and tear on your muscles.  The cryo chamber was made to Ainge a few years ago, and he said that the Celtics have one, so, what's the problem?  Did they plug it in or assemble it wrong, or did we just get the defective one, lol ;D?  Was the manual in Korean?  Did they put dry ice from the smoke machine in there by mistake? ;D

2).  While that is true about Holiday, at least he can still play.  I understand why you would want to be cautious in dealing with them in the future (funny, that was always our image ::), lol ;D), but I simply cannot comprehend why everyone is focusing so much on the 76ers in this regard when the true villain, as always ;D, is the Lakers.  Has everyone forgotten how they got Howard for a Bynum who never played a single game for Philadelphia?  The guy was a lemon.  Why is this being overlooked, or is it simply because the lakers can do no wrong in the eyes of the league, which has been their history?  Ridiculous.

3).  Yep, I agree.  It's always difficult to find great big men, but I'd say it's even harder now because the current era is the best one, ever, for point guards.  TP for everything you've said in your post :).


TP, although it should say "Beat LA Always Uses Emojis and it is Always an Overkill"
2019 historical draft.  Pick 12

Tim Duncan, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond, Sam Jones, Dan Majerle, Bob Cousy, Rasheed Wallace, Shawn Kemp, Marcus Camby

Re: Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2015, 07:41:48 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I kind of agree with not trading for Embid. At best projection by the time he is fully healthy and getting accustomed to the NBA he will be in his RFA year. At that point let 76ers develop him and come in his FA year and sign him out right when he can actually contribute at a high level and wants out of there.