Joel Embiid - Celtics Medical Staff. Slightly Alarming...

[Forza Juventus]

People are very shady behind the scenes.

Yup especially wealthy people.

[Forza Juventus]

I would have drafted Embiid at the time and would still take a chance on him but it would have to be a reasonable trade

[SCeltic34]

Think about this:

Do you think the staff leaked a 'good' report so that it enticed the other 5 teams to pick him so that the player Danny may have wanted could have still been there- therefore making Embiid more of an asset for 2015-16?

Completely possible!

Highly doubtful.   If something was indeed wrong but the Celtics medical staff put out a fake "good" report for the mere sake of trying to mislead other teams, they'd lose credibility once the physicians of other teams found a medical issue.  Not exactly endearing to your professional integrity nor skills as a practicing sports orthopedist. 

[Big333223]

I know I was praying Embiid slipped to us at #6. I think it would've been tough to pass up on that kind of potential with that pick. It's looking like a disaster of a #3 pick now, but who knows? Maybe he'll come back and be a defensive force in the league for a decade.

[tarheelsxxiii]

No clue what happens behind the scenes with all the draft posturing and offseason "updates," but based on the injury the prognosis can't be good.

Location - "Navicular" is a less common type, but more common among "jumpers" (e.g., volleyball). It's basically at the hub of your foot (like "parietal" lobe of your brain) that in bball is constantly in use, torqued, and under stress.

Healing - "Navicular" is even vague, because multiple types of fractures could have occurred within that particular area. Beyond that, he could have all kinds of associated ancillary problems (e.g., tissue damage). Bone, tissue or nerve may have healed incorrectly the first time around, which could well be permanent; in contrast, if it just didn't heal, that could be a different issue...

Age - It's especially concerning b/c of his age. Given his history, physical size, and poor healing / break, it wouldn't be uncommon for him to have had injury / stress fracture to the navicular bone for a long period of time, as they commonly go unnoticed for years. If so, more untreated damage over a longer period of time... not good.

That said, I would consider sending off the 3 rooks for him.

[LarBrd33]

link to article?

http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/where-does-joel-embiid-rank-among-sixers-assets-now

If the Sixers hypothetically tried to move Embiid right now, what might they get in return? As a rough thought experiment, I asked around. One longtime league executive said he?s worth ?a real protected first.? When I asked if the Sixers could get into the lottery for Embiid, the reply was quick: ?No.? Another longtime front office man disagreed slightly and said he?d go ?back end of the lottery, maybe? for Embiid. He called it a ?dice roll? for teams that are starting over and want to gamble. Those are just two opinions, and Hinkie has done pretty well for himself when negotiating with other front offices (poor, overmatched Vlade Divac), but it?s evident that, at present, it would be hard to find a return approaching the third overall pick that the Sixers invested in Embiid. It?s hold him and hope, or move him and take a huge loss on the investment. The first option seems smartest and most likely.

I'll say it's hard to have an opinion on this, though as Philly has been pretty weird about disclosing information about Embiid's situation.  For several weeks they claimed he hadn't rebroken the bone... and now suddenly reports are coming out that he did indeed refracture it.  So you'd have to expect a very very thorough examination of Embiid and his medical history before making any offer at all.  But assuming there's a better than 50% chance he comes back 100% next season, I'd trade Rozier + Hunter + Mickey for him.   Those guys will all spend the bulk of their time in dleague this year anyways.  Combining all of them with the #15 pick wasn't enough to move up to #9.... So the three of them alone for Embiid sounds like a win for Boston (presuming Embiid had a chance of recovery and Philly was even open to such a sell-low proposition). 

I don't see Philly attempting to sell low on Embiid right now, so let's not spend too much time debating about whether it's too much to give up for him.  It's just a hypothetical and there is so much we don't know.  Who knows what else Philly is blatantly lying about.

If his value is indeed a "real protected first," why are we even talking about our current rookies? We have plenty of those to offer.

(All hypothetical of course, I think it's unlikely that Philly trades him or anyone trades for him at this point.)

Just saying what I'd be comfortable doing.  I imagine Embiid could still fetch a lotto pick.   None of our rookies are worth lotto picks.

It's a moot point, because I don't see Embiid getting traded and I wouldn't do a trade without first getting assurance that there was a better than 50% chance he'd come back 100%... and that information isn't public.  Who knows what's going on there... apparently Philly has just been lying to the public about all sorts of stuff.  Crazy.

[SHAQATTACK]

They chose poorly.......

And now have to deal with the media and spin


Owners should fire the GM?

Fans come first. 

[Celtics4ever]

Come on! Eddy Lecerte is the man!

I don't necessarily think our doctors are the best or our trainers.    He has been here forever.   I recall Larry's back and McHale's foot.   More  recently KG's knee was an issue.   The one that really bothers me is Reggie Lewis's heart.   The list goes on and on but I do not think the C's medical staff  is anything more than average.   Sullinger's, weight, would not a trainer or the team step in and assist or get him a nutrionist.  It seems we are more reactive than proactive.

[celticmania]

I kinda feel bad for the 6ers fans and definitely for Joel Embiid.  Not for their front office though. They have purposely put d league talent on the floor for the past few seasons and taken injured players hoping to lose games to get high picks. That is very wrong and not fair to the fans. Karma... I guess they p---ed the basketball gods off. I hope they trade him and he becomes the best center in the league. They don't deserve talent like Embiid however Jahlil Okafor - Nerlens Noel - Dario Saric frontcourt looks good if just one of them learns how to shoot a basketball

[kozlodoev]

Come on! Eddy Lecerte is the man!

I don't necessarily think our doctors are the best or our trainers.    He has been here forever.   I recall Larry's back and McHale's foot.   More  recently KG's knee was an issue.   The one that really bothers me is Reggie Lewis's heart.   The list goes on and on but I do not think the C's medical staff  is anything more than average.   Sullinger's, weight, would not a trainer or the team step in and assist or get him a nutrionist.  It seems we are more reactive than proactive.

Agreed. I think teams like the Suns have outstanding medical staffs -- I remember both O'Neals going there and looking like they found the Fountain of Youth. They're certainly doing something right in the desert.

[loco_91]

He may still be worth a lotto pick, but it's unlikely the Sixers can get one: if they shop him, everyone will assume the foot is worse than they're letting on. After the whole Jrue Holiday thing.

[Emmette Bryant]

Come on! Eddy Lecerte is the man!

I don't necessarily think our doctors are the best or our trainers.    He has been here forever.   I recall Larry's back and McHale's foot.   More  recently KG's knee was an issue.   The one that really bothers me is Reggie Lewis's heart.   The list goes on and on but I do not think the C's medical staff  is anything more than average.   Sullinger's, weight, would not a trainer or the team step in and assist or get him a nutrionist.  It seems we are more reactive than proactive.

To be fair, though, they caught Jeff Green's aneurysm.

[oldtype]

link to article?

http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/where-does-joel-embiid-rank-among-sixers-assets-now

If the Sixers hypothetically tried to move Embiid right now, what might they get in return? As a rough thought experiment, I asked around. One longtime league executive said he?s worth ?a real protected first.? When I asked if the Sixers could get into the lottery for Embiid, the reply was quick: ?No.? Another longtime front office man disagreed slightly and said he?d go ?back end of the lottery, maybe? for Embiid. He called it a ?dice roll? for teams that are starting over and want to gamble. Those are just two opinions, and Hinkie has done pretty well for himself when negotiating with other front offices (poor, overmatched Vlade Divac), but it?s evident that, at present, it would be hard to find a return approaching the third overall pick that the Sixers invested in Embiid. It?s hold him and hope, or move him and take a huge loss on the investment. The first option seems smartest and most likely.

I'll say it's hard to have an opinion on this, though as Philly has been pretty weird about disclosing information about Embiid's situation.  For several weeks they claimed he hadn't rebroken the bone... and now suddenly reports are coming out that he did indeed refracture it.  So you'd have to expect a very very thorough examination of Embiid and his medical history before making any offer at all.  But assuming there's a better than 50% chance he comes back 100% next season, I'd trade Rozier + Hunter + Mickey for him.   Those guys will all spend the bulk of their time in dleague this year anyways.  Combining all of them with the #15 pick wasn't enough to move up to #9.... So the three of them alone for Embiid sounds like a win for Boston (presuming Embiid had a chance of recovery and Philly was even open to such a sell-low proposition). 

I don't see Philly attempting to sell low on Embiid right now, so let's not spend too much time debating about whether it's too much to give up for him.  It's just a hypothetical and there is so much we don't know.  Who knows what else Philly is blatantly lying about.

If his value is indeed a "real protected first," why are we even talking about our current rookies? We have plenty of those to offer.

(All hypothetical of course, I think it's unlikely that Philly trades him or anyone trades for him at this point.)

Just saying what I'd be comfortable doing.  I imagine Embiid could still fetch a lotto pick.   None of our rookies are worth lotto picks.

It's a moot point, because I don't see Embiid getting traded and I wouldn't do a trade without first getting assurance that there was a better than 50% chance he'd come back 100%... and that information isn't public.  Who knows what's going on there... apparently Philly has just been lying to the public about all sorts of stuff.  Crazy.

So in effect, you'd trade all four of our rookies (three if we assume Thornton is basically a zero) for a late lotto pick? (let's say 10-14 range)

[greece66]

http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/7/30/9071341/celtics-medically-cleared-joel-embiid-before-2014-draft

I recognize there is no fool-proof system out there, knowing what a human body will do.  But this kinda scared me - that the Celtics medical team really didn't see the bigger picture of the damage.

Interesting find.

IMO if he were there at six, we should have taken him.

It was a good risk and only with hindsight do we know he did not recover and is probably Greg Oden II.

Note also that almost everybody was wrong about his injury. These things are very hard to predict.

From wikipedia:

In 26 August 2014, Embiid signed his rookie scale contract with the Philadelphia 76ers. He was later ruled unlikely to play at all in the 2014–15 season due to the broken navicular bone in his foot. After missing the entire 2014–15 season, it was announced on 13 June 2015 that Embiid had suffered a setback in his recovery after a CT scan revealed less healing than anticipated.

[LarBrd33]

link to article?

http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/where-does-joel-embiid-rank-among-sixers-assets-now

If the Sixers hypothetically tried to move Embiid right now, what might they get in return? As a rough thought experiment, I asked around. One longtime league executive said he?s worth ?a real protected first.? When I asked if the Sixers could get into the lottery for Embiid, the reply was quick: ?No.? Another longtime front office man disagreed slightly and said he?d go ?back end of the lottery, maybe? for Embiid. He called it a ?dice roll? for teams that are starting over and want to gamble. Those are just two opinions, and Hinkie has done pretty well for himself when negotiating with other front offices (poor, overmatched Vlade Divac), but it?s evident that, at present, it would be hard to find a return approaching the third overall pick that the Sixers invested in Embiid. It?s hold him and hope, or move him and take a huge loss on the investment. The first option seems smartest and most likely.

I'll say it's hard to have an opinion on this, though as Philly has been pretty weird about disclosing information about Embiid's situation.  For several weeks they claimed he hadn't rebroken the bone... and now suddenly reports are coming out that he did indeed refracture it.  So you'd have to expect a very very thorough examination of Embiid and his medical history before making any offer at all.  But assuming there's a better than 50% chance he comes back 100% next season, I'd trade Rozier + Hunter + Mickey for him.   Those guys will all spend the bulk of their time in dleague this year anyways.  Combining all of them with the #15 pick wasn't enough to move up to #9.... So the three of them alone for Embiid sounds like a win for Boston (presuming Embiid had a chance of recovery and Philly was even open to such a sell-low proposition). 

I don't see Philly attempting to sell low on Embiid right now, so let's not spend too much time debating about whether it's too much to give up for him.  It's just a hypothetical and there is so much we don't know.  Who knows what else Philly is blatantly lying about.

If his value is indeed a "real protected first," why are we even talking about our current rookies? We have plenty of those to offer.

(All hypothetical of course, I think it's unlikely that Philly trades him or anyone trades for him at this point.)

Just saying what I'd be comfortable doing.  I imagine Embiid could still fetch a lotto pick.   None of our rookies are worth lotto picks.

It's a moot point, because I don't see Embiid getting traded and I wouldn't do a trade without first getting assurance that there was a better than 50% chance he'd come back 100%... and that information isn't public.  Who knows what's going on there... apparently Philly has just been lying to the public about all sorts of stuff.  Crazy.

So in effect, you'd trade all four of our rookies (three if we assume Thornton is basically a zero) for a late lotto pick? (let's say 10-14 range)

My rationalization:

Each rookie individually probably has a 2% chance of becoming a superstar (that's generous).

Healthy embiid probably has a 80% chance of being a superstar.

If there's a better than 50% chance of embiid being healthy, I have no problem giving up these mediocre young guys with no star potential for a shot at a superstar.   I trust that ainge agrees or he wouldn't have offered an ever greater package for #9.