Playing to Win (as it pertains to minutes)

[apc]

Stevens doesn’t have set rotations and minutes. More like a player gets a few minutes a game based on how he plays his minutes will adjust.
Not to mention rotations will change based on the competition and match-ups.

[LooseCannon]

I'm really curious why people are so high on PJ3 that they think he's not only going to make the team but actually earn playing time?

Because he is tall would be my guess.

[Jon]

Loading up on minutes for only 10 or even 8 players is fine for playoffs but in the grind of a full season best to play 12 guys a game (and alternate last 3). Have to keep guys feeling fresh and not over fatigued. Pushing guys too far is easy way to get injuries and lower efficiency. On top of that the locker room could suffer. If you are busting your butt in practice and never get playing time you may lose hope with the team and stop practicing with effort thus dragging down the team. If a guy has a great practice he deserves a few minutes at least once a week. Remember this is their lively hood if they don't get some on the court time they lose value. If you mess with any man's earnings there will be a lot of anemostity and tension with the team. This is why guys like Bass got minutes last year. Great guy, very good in practice. He needed to get minutes in this contract year to stay a great guy and keep good team morale. You have to keep in mind these guys care and want to play. If you take away playing time they stop caring and trying, some even ask for a trade.

See, this is where I totally disagree. I get the season is long, but in what world is a 10 man rotation going to wear down as the season goes on? In the scenario I laid out in the original post, no one played more than 32 mpg. In a 10 man rotation, no one would likely even crack 30.

I think some people get too fixated on San Antonio. They play an extended rotation for two reasons: they're old and they have the talent to do it and still win a ton of games. We aren't old; there's no reason players in their 20s can't play 28-32 mpg with no ill effects. I get the Celtic fan base is somewhat traumatized still from Doc playing Ray and PP 36 mpg+, but this isn't the case here. 

I also don't buy this locker room argument. I get how some players would be peeved if Stevens went with a 7-8 player rotation all season and gave no one a chance. But Stevens will likely go 9-10 deep all year. I also get that if this was the Big Three Era and we had some promising young guys who would never supplant our Hall of Famers, but still deserved to showcase their talents. But we have no superstars, so if a given player can't crack the top 9-10 spots on this team, quite frankly he shouldn't get PT and has no reason to complain about this.

And to D Dub and others of the mind that we play the likes of Zeller and Rozier 4-5 mpg, I sincerely ask this question: is it really worth doing that when someone like Smart or Sully could just play a few more minutes? Meaning, how much does 4-5 mpg really do to help a player develop and/or increase their value.

[PhoSita]

We aren't old; there's no reason players in their 20s can't play 28-32 mpg with no ill effects. I get Celtic fan base is somewhat traumatized still from Doc playing Ray and PP 36 mpg+, but this isn't the case here. 

I think the biggest reason to go with a 10 man rotation where everybody plays between 16 and 30 minutes is that nobody on this team is really good enough to play more than that.  The team is probably better giving guys more rest so that when they are out there they can play with maximum energy and effort. 

That's the main way this team wins games in the regular season, maximum energy, effort, hustle, etc.  Make the more talented teams feel like it's not worth it to chase the Celts around and try to win some random game in February.

I completely agree with you, though -- there's no reason to play more than 10 guys with any regularity.

[KG Living Legend]

You play to win the game!

[D Dub]

I'm really curious why people are so high on PJ3 that they think he's not only going to make the team but actually earn playing time?

Who's gonna get cut so he can make the team?

Well, I think if we intended to cut him that we'd already know about it, a la Zoran Dragic, and PJ3 wouldn't have gone through the whole press conference piece.  So that tells me at least Danny believes in him.

And from what I've seen of his game, I think he fits in nicely.  Don't forget, the key to playing in Brad's system is your switchability on defense.  PJ3 can guard four positions and besides Jonas and Jae, is the only true 'swing' we have.  I think he's going to be a fine defender actually, having spent the last 3 seasons guarding Durant in practice. 

So, in my opinion, I think he'll earn time based on his defense and will eventually carve out a role because he doesn't make many mistakes and can shoot the outside shot.  I actually think he's a lot better than his career stats indicate and will turn out to be a classic 3&D new age NBA player. 

[D Dub]

Loading up on minutes for only 10 or even 8 players is fine for playoffs but in the grind of a full season best to play 12 guys a game (and alternate last 3). Have to keep guys feeling fresh and not over fatigued. Pushing guys too far is easy way to get injuries and lower efficiency. On top of that the locker room could suffer. If you are busting your butt in practice and never get playing time you may lose hope with the team and stop practicing with effort thus dragging down the team. If a guy has a great practice he deserves a few minutes at least once a week. Remember this is their lively hood if they don't get some on the court time they lose value. If you mess with any man's earnings there will be a lot of anemostity and tension with the team. This is why guys like Bass got minutes last year. Great guy, very good in practice. He needed to get minutes in this contract year to stay a great guy and keep good team morale. You have to keep in mind these guys care and want to play. If you take away playing time they stop caring and trying, some even ask for a trade.

And to D Dub and others of the mind that we play the likes of Zeller and Rozier 4-5 mpg, I sincerely ask this question: is it really worth doing that when someone like Smart or Sully could just play a few more minutes? Meaning, how much does 4-5 mpg really do to help a player develop and/or increase their value.

For me, the 4-5mpg thing happens when you give certain guys rest or when games get out of hand.  Rozier I think we'll get some looks with Marcus playing wing and while IT gets a blow. 

Sully, to me, shouldn't be given big minutes until he can prove his conditioning.  No need pushing him too hard too soon and having him injure himself again. 

[Celtics18]

Play eleven guys 22 minutes per game.  It's the only answer. 

[D.o.s.]

Play eleven guys 22 minutes per game.  It's the only answer.

Only full court press.

[PhoSita]

All 13 guys on the active roster play 18 minutes or so each night.  Six minute shifts.

[Csfan1984]

Loading up on minutes for only 10 or even 8 players is fine for playoffs but in the grind of a full season best to play 12 guys a game (and alternate last 3). Have to keep guys feeling fresh and not over fatigued. Pushing guys too far is easy way to get injuries and lower efficiency. On top of that the locker room could suffer. If you are busting your butt in practice and never get playing time you may lose hope with the team and stop practicing with effort thus dragging down the team. If a guy has a great practice he deserves a few minutes at least once a week. Remember this is their lively hood if they don't get some on the court time they lose value. If you mess with any man's earnings there will be a lot of anemostity and tension with the team. This is why guys like Bass got minutes last year. Great guy, very good in practice. He needed to get minutes in this contract year to stay a great guy and keep good team morale. You have to keep in mind these guys care and want to play. If you take away playing time they stop caring and trying, some even ask for a trade.

See, this is where I totally disagree. I get the season is long, but in what world is a 10 man rotation going to wear down as the season goes on? In the scenario I laid out in the original post, no one played more than 32 mpg. In a 10 man rotation, no one would likely even crack 30.

I think some people get too fixated on San Antonio. They play an extended rotation for two reasons: they're old and they have the talent to do it and still win a ton of games. We aren't old; there's no reason players in their 20s can't play 28-32 mpg with no ill effects. I get the Celtic fan base is somewhat traumatized still from Doc playing Ray and PP 36 mpg+, but this isn't the case here. 

I also don't buy this locker room argument. I get how some players would be peeved if Stevens went with a 7-8 player rotation all season and gave no one a chance. But Stevens will likely go 9-10 deep all year. I also get that if this was the Big Three Era and we had some promising young guys who would never supplant our Hall of Famers, but still deserved to showcase their talents. But we have no superstars, so if a given player can't crack the top 9-10 spots on this team, quite frankly he shouldn't get PT and has no reason to complain about this.

And to D Dub and others of the mind that we play the likes of Zeller and Rozier 4-5 mpg, I sincerely ask this question: is it really worth doing that when someone like Smart or Sully could just play a few more minutes? Meaning, how much does 4-5 mpg really do to help a player develop and/or increase their value.

We no doubt disagree then. Also even if a player gets 4-5mins that is huge for a player to get confidence or to prove he can get an edge in certain situations against certain players or teams. Things may be different in practice because you might go against a defensive beast all the time and look bad. Basically it shows the coach a different look when you face different competition that is huge in developing a player and getting more data for coaching.

[More Banners]

Anyone remember when Hubie Brown coached the Griz?

10 players, two lines, 24 minutes each, everyone in lays their butts off.

Might be where we're headed this season. Most likely, the first 20-25 games will be experiments to gather data on players and combinations.

My guess will be that Lee gets around 30, while the other bigs are closer to 20, with them taking turns resting.

We're really a roster waiting for a multiplayer trade  in light of having multiple redundant players, eg. Bradley/Smart, Lee/Sullinger, and possibly IT/Rozier.

[greece66]

Anyone remember when Hubie Brown coached the Griz?

10 players, two lines, 24 minutes each, everyone in lays their butts off.

Might be where we're headed this season. Most likely, the first 20-25 games will be experiments to gather data on players and combinations.

My guess will be that Lee gets around 30, while the other bigs are closer to 20, with them taking turns resting.

We're really a roster waiting for a multiplayer trade  in light of having multiple redundant players, eg. Bradley/Smart, Lee/Sullinger, and possibly IT/Rozier.

Bolded part spoiled an otherwise excellent post.
No way Lee gets so many mins.