Author Topic: Skal Labissiere  (Read 6706 times)

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Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2015, 03:24:14 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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The NCAA is exploitation en masse.

And they are being aided and abetted by the NBA and the NFL. 
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Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2015, 01:03:14 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Quote
I do have a problem with our universities acting as virtually mandated, unpaid internships for playing professional sports.

This is a real problem but another problem is that only a fraction of college players make it to the pros.  I think if they play they should get a free education that they can fall back on, regardless if they get hurt, only play a few years, or declare for the pros and do not make it or even go to the pros and get bounced out.   Award them a bachelor degree tuition until they get one.   The NBA should even couple with them to help make this happen.
I'm ok with the D-league being an alternative to college but I disagree that kids that jump into that league need to have college guaranteed for them.  Treat it like any other kid that chooses a job over college--if the job doesn't work out, college is still there as an option but they have to make their own way there.  I wouldn't open up NCAA eligibility to them either if they play in the D-league. 

The keys, I think,
- is figuring out fair D-league wages
- linking the D-league teams to NBA teams where NBA teams can be assured their 'minor league' players learn the appropriate system/skillsets for developing
- if the league allows players that aren't affiliated with a team yet, how to include those players in a future draft.  Example, Andrew Harrison goes undrafted but plays a year in D-league and looks a lot better than kids available in the coming draft-->should he be part of the next draft or should he basically a FA to negotiate with any team?  Under the current system, I'm ok with him being able to peddle himself as a FA because there's no real safety net but if a safety net were to be provided, should he still be allowed to be a FA?


Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 01:26:18 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The NCAA is exploitation en masse.

And they are being aided and abetted by the NBA and the NFL.

Yep.  Free development, no need to invest in players before they're on your roster and take on the risk that they get injured.

In an ideal world, you'd have minor league football teams in the place of the FBS teams, and those teams would have relationships with universities / colleges and offer degree programs to their players.  The minor league teams would provide a pipeline direct to the NFL, and young guys on a professional track who aren't ready for the NFL would get paid a modest salary while working toward a degree in the off-season.

You could do a similar thing with the NBA.

But of course, that'd cost more for the teams involved and would require dismantling the hugely profitable NCAA, whose entire business model is premised on free labor creating an enormously popular and lucrative product.
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Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 03:37:40 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote
I do have a problem with our universities acting as virtually mandated, unpaid internships for playing professional sports.

This is a real problem but another problem is that only a fraction of college players make it to the pros.  I think if they play they should get a free education that they can fall back on, regardless if they get hurt, only play a few years, or declare for the pros and do not make it or even go to the pros and get bounced out.   Award them a bachelor degree tuition until they get one.   The NBA should even couple with them to help make this happen.
I'm ok with the D-league being an alternative to college but I disagree that kids that jump into that league need to have college guaranteed for them.  Treat it like any other kid that chooses a job over college--if the job doesn't work out, college is still there as an option but they have to make their own way there.  I wouldn't open up NCAA eligibility to them either if they play in the D-league. 


I think he's talking about guys who play in college, not the D-League.  Unfortunately the "student" half of "student-athlete" is a complete joke at most schools, to the point that athletes who actually want to get a proper education and not get funneled into unchallenging/no-show classes get actively discouraged by the athletic department.  I've seen this happen to people I know, and they weren't even in "glamor" sports.

Personally I think the major colleges need to spin off their athletics as minor-league pro teams that just carry the university's brand, but each athlete gets a 4-year scholarship as part of their compensation, and they can redeem it at any point in the next 15 years or so.  Athletes who get hurt or don't cut it in the pros still have the opportunity to get an education, and athletes who don't value an education don't have to pretend to get one. 

Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2015, 03:47:37 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Personally I think the major colleges need to spin off their athletics as minor-league pro teams that just carry the university's brand, but each athlete gets a 4-year scholarship as part of their compensation, and they can redeem it at any point in the next 15 years or so.  Athletes who get hurt or don't cut it in the pros still have the opportunity to get an education, and athletes who don't value an education don't have to pretend to get one.

I'm fully on board with this.
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Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2015, 06:15:18 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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Personally I think the major colleges need to spin off their athletics as minor-league pro teams that just carry the university's brand, but each athlete gets a 4-year scholarship as part of their compensation, and they can redeem it at any point in the next 15 years or so.  Athletes who get hurt or don't cut it in the pros still have the opportunity to get an education, and athletes who don't value an education don't have to pretend to get one.

I'm fully on board with this.

One of the main problems with this argument though is how do you define which sports get the semi pro full scholarship status.

Everyone of Kentucky's basketball players should get a full scholarship because of how much value they bring to the school. Kentucky's Division 1 Field Hockey Team? Girl's Soccer? Kentucky Baseball? None of these have the kind of draw that would justify giving the full roster 4 year scholarships.

NCAA though is never going to say though that Basketball Players are more valuable student athletes than any of the other NCAA programs even if it it's true from a strictly financial perspective.

Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2015, 06:30:43 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Personally I think the major colleges need to spin off their athletics as minor-league pro teams that just carry the university's brand, but each athlete gets a 4-year scholarship as part of their compensation, and they can redeem it at any point in the next 15 years or so.  Athletes who get hurt or don't cut it in the pros still have the opportunity to get an education, and athletes who don't value an education don't have to pretend to get one.

I'm fully on board with this.

One of the main problems with this argument though is how do you define which sports get the semi pro full scholarship status.

Everyone of Kentucky's basketball players should get a full scholarship because of how much value they bring to the school. Kentucky's Division 1 Field Hockey Team? Girl's Soccer? Kentucky Baseball? None of these have the kind of draw that would justify giving the full roster 4 year scholarships.

NCAA though is never going to say though that Basketball Players are more valuable student athletes than any of the other NCAA programs even if it it's true from a strictly financial perspective.
yes, and this brings up a key point in college athletics. generally, only a few men's sports can generate enough revenue to be self-supporting. in addition, most of the funding for most of college sports and sport scholarships come from men's basketball and football. women's curling just aint gonna pay the bills.

if the big revenue sports stop being big revenue sports, then many of the other sports would dry up as universities made budget cuts.

in that sense, these sports are funding opportunities for thousands of other athletes who really are scholar-athletes.

another point, the thread tends to focus heavily upon the big name schools. other schools may be smaller, less well known, have lesser sports programs (NCAA II, III, etc.) the discussion on "minor leagues" and such mean far less to these schools. and most schools fit this last category.

college athletics (writ large) is a complicated ball of wax and most sports fans dont see the majority of college sports, only the big name schools.
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Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2015, 06:41:51 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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in that sense, these sports are funding opportunities for thousands of other athletes who really are scholar-athletes.


Sure, but by "these sports" you really mean "these athletes."  They aren't choosing to sacrifice the value of their work for the sake of other athletes at their schools, and the schools with smaller, less lucrative programs.

Either way you slice it, you've got a portion of the college athletes playing at a semi-professional level but getting paid nothing.  The money generated gets used to pay for other sports programs and for school facilities in general, yes, but it also lines the pockets of school employees / trustees, not to mention providing revenue for all of the companies that utilize college sports for advertising and merchandise.

College sports existed before the NCAA became a huge money making venture, and I imagine they would continue to exist even if the money-making programs were converted into semiprofessional leagues and the athletes involved were paid a modest salary.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2015, 06:48:50 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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college athletics (writ large) is a complicated ball of wax and most sports fans dont see the majority of college sports, only the big name schools.

I think the reason for this is quite understandable -- college sports can be divided into two categories: the biggest sports programs in the biggest sports, and everything else. 

There's a huge difference between the two categories.  How they work, how they're funded, the experience of the players involved, and so on.

In other words, it doesn't really make much sense to say that the experience of a Crimson Tide running back is really anything like the experience of a coxswain at Northeastern.  Both are 'student athletes' but it's really apples and oranges.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Skal Labissiere
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2015, 06:52:06 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Personally I think the major colleges need to spin off their athletics as minor-league pro teams that just carry the university's brand, but each athlete gets a 4-year scholarship as part of their compensation, and they can redeem it at any point in the next 15 years or so.  Athletes who get hurt or don't cut it in the pros still have the opportunity to get an education, and athletes who don't value an education don't have to pretend to get one.

I'm fully on board with this.

One of the main problems with this argument though is how do you define which sports get the semi pro full scholarship status.

Everyone of Kentucky's basketball players should get a full scholarship because of how much value they bring to the school. Kentucky's Division 1 Field Hockey Team? Girl's Soccer? Kentucky Baseball? None of these have the kind of draw that would justify giving the full roster 4 year scholarships.

NCAA though is never going to say though that Basketball Players are more valuable student athletes than any of the other NCAA programs even if it it's true from a strictly financial perspective.

That is one of the big sticking points but could be resolved by simply allotting the same # of scholarships they do right now; any additional compensation could be established on a sport-by-sport basis and would probably be 0 or close to it for most.  The bigger problem is in a lot of those lesser sports there's effectively 0 post-college professional work for the athletes to do, but coaches and whatever boosters they might have would likely want to follow the same "all sports, no academics" frameworks that the football/basketball glamour sports would wind up as.

To me another big issue would be that there is a small group of people who really can be both an athlete and a student at a high level; Aaron Craft is a recent example who comes to mind, Jacque Vaughn a past one.  They'd basically have to delay scholastics for athletics under that setup.  It kinda sucks to force a young bright athlete to have to make that choice. 

There really aren't any great solutions, and there'd definitely have to be different standards for different situations, but the charade of the "student-athlete" in these prominent sports has to stop.  Heck, Eric Bledsoe is widely known around the UK community for having boasted that he never attended a single class - probation after the fall, academically ineligible for athletics after the spring but oops, I'm in the draft now, sorry. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 07:53:27 PM by foulweatherfan »