Author Topic: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer  (Read 39449 times)

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Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #135 on: July 29, 2015, 12:33:09 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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In a nutshell, the same argument with the same players taking the same sides, both sides are wrong (due to inevitable extremes), but you can only become involved in the "debate" when you attack others and/or become known for a wildly extreme viewpoint.

I don't get the "attacking other posters" comment.  Up until your post this debate seems to have remained fairly civil.

I don't see how. I pointed out a pattern, I have no horse in the race, and I tend to agree most with your "side" fwiw.. .meaning I wasn't referring to you

My apologies.  Have a TP for the misunderstanding. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #136 on: July 29, 2015, 12:37:01 AM »

Offline MBunge

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You know reading the article, I still don't understand why people kept feeling that the Cavs were in chill mode, because every game was pretty close.

According to several people here the games weren't even close either, i.e. their observations didn't fit with their preconceived notions of what was going to happen in the series, so they warped the semantics of the word "close."  ;)

Well, it wasn't close in that Boston had much of a chance to win but it was close in that Cleveland had to play pretty hard and pretty well for each victory.

Mike

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #137 on: July 29, 2015, 12:37:56 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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I wasn't around these parts during the 2013 Draft, so would anyone mind informing me as to what the general reaction was to Danny taking KO over Giannis? Giannis is honestly one of my favorite players in the league, so I don't look back fondly on that decision.

From what I recall, a good number of people were stumping for Giannis or Dieng, and a few for Schroder (though not too many due to Rondo being around).  The Celts moving up to select Olynyk was a bit of a surprise.

I remember being dubious of Giannis, thinking he could end up as another Austin Daye / Anthony Randolph, and feeling a little bit excited because of how productive Kelly was in college.  I remember thinking, though, that Dieng could have addressed the needs of the team better and that it would've been nice to end up with a player with the kind of upside that Giannis had.

What would have made more sense is if we had drafted like this -

2013 - Dieng
2014 - Vonleh and whoever, lol ;D
2015 - Winslow, Hunter, etc.

At least at that point we'd have a core and a vision for the team moving forward, but why do what makes sense, right, lol ;D? Ugh. I'll never understand the Isaiah Thomas trade, and we might as well have kept Rondo for the year (and then perhaps let him walk or perhaps not, depending on who we could have gotten in the draft), still traded Green (if not for Prince than a first round pick in this year's draft), and finished the season with the 9th or 10th worst record, which ultimately nets us Winslow.



Okay, what have I done wrong now, lol ;D?

Why Vonleh over Smart? Smart has already proven he's a capable NBA player, Vonleh hasn't.

And would you really rather had kept Rondo all year than have Crowder, IT, and the Dallas pick, just for the sake of maybe being worse?

The reason I was for Smart or Randle was because I hadn't seen a video of Vonleh which I later came across and had me like :o (that's also the last time I'll ever put all my stock into draft express videos, lol ;D. They're too negative, imo.).  Smart is okay, but nothing in his highlights really gave off the same impression.  Here, have a look at this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYXa1_nb_Dk

OH MY GOD :o. An 18/19 year old power forward who already has better post moves, with either hand, than 90-95% of guys in the league, plus he can rebound, defend, pass, shhot (even out to the 3 point line, as we saw in the summer league) and handle?  Wow.  You know what would have been even better, though?  If we had traded for Vonleh before the draft.  Charlotte clearly had no idea in what they had in him, imo, as evidenced by their reason for trading the guy - because they couldn't move Cody Zeller.  Seriously.  Unbelievable.  Give them ET, Sully, and KO for Vonleh and their second round pick at 39, which they traded to Brooklyn, anyway, leaving us with Vonleh and Smart, plus the guys from this year's draft.  Noah had some good games at the end of the year, btw, when they actually gave him the time.  Check this out -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMjWnbHACRk

Crowder is a good player, but giving him a 5 year deal was ridiculous, imo, but I hope that I'm proven wrong.  It would have been better to have signed Glenn Robinson III, who just inked a 3 year deal with the Pacers.  Doh!  God I love and hate Larry right now, lol ;D. Alternatively, Crowda ;D could just have been replaced with an undrafted free agent.

I'm not sure about the Dallas pick, and I'm not an IT fan.  He's just too much of a defensive liability, imo, as was seen in the playoffs, and he excels at hero ball.  Great (sarcasm) ::). We could have gotten a better player from, again, this year's class of undrafted free agents ;D, imo.

All in all, and whether Rondo would have stayed or not, I guess I'm looking more at the big picture.  Wouldn't you rather have a young core of Vonleh, Winslow, and Smart, instead of whatever this 'roster' is right now?  At least we'd have a vision of what kind of team we want to make moving forward, and at that point we could start to shoot for making the postseason this year.  I'm not advocating for a 76ers approach, here, but I just feel like it's best long-term if we first have the necessary talent in place, and the last two drafts were loaded.  I know, I'm nuts ;D.

I think Vonleh's issue was attitude, iirc. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that in his draft workouts something came across bad to Danny or Brad about his attitude. The kid has talent and potential, but with the culture that Brad is trying to build here I think they're trying to sway away from those types.

Now I'm of the opinion that the package was too much, but you HAVE to think that Danny said "Hey, I have Olynyk over here. Since Kamibsky is a clone of KO, why not substitute him for one of the picks?" If they were set on Kaminsky and we're working under the assumption that KO and Kamibsky are very very similar players with similar ceilings, then they had no reason to not take that deal. They could've got their guy along with more assets, and we could've fixed our PF jam and added Winslow. It makes too much sense for everyone involved. Surely KO was at least brought up as a possibility.

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2015, 12:41:17 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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You know reading the article, I still don't understand why people kept feeling that the Cavs were in chill mode, because every game was pretty close.

According to several people here the games weren't even close either, i.e. their observations didn't fit with their preconceived notions of what was going to happen in the series, so they warped the semantics of the word "close."  ;)

Well, it wasn't close in that Boston had much of a chance to win but it was close in that Cleveland had to play pretty hard and pretty well for each victory.

Mike

This is a good distinction. The Cavaliers definitely couldn't mail in those games like the two we won at the end of the season, but the Celtics were never really threatening to win any of them.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #139 on: July 29, 2015, 12:42:26 AM »

Offline MBunge

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I would not prefer a core of Winslow, Vonleh and Smart to what we have now.  Vonleh could be out of the league in a few years and Winslow was a fairly "meh" college freshman who happened to have a bit more than a handful of very good performances.

Mike


Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #141 on: July 29, 2015, 01:32:35 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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In a nutshell, the same argument with the same players taking the same sides, both sides are wrong (due to inevitable extremes), but you can only become involved in the "debate" when you attack others and/or become known for a wildly extreme viewpoint.

Around here, certain topics will spark arguments as if somebody's religion got insulted.


At this point, I just . . . can't . . . with the "do you need a top draft pick to rebuild?" argument.  I will refer to Barenaked Ladies on it:

"It's all been done."

Nobody on either side is going to get persuaded of anything at this stage.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #142 on: July 29, 2015, 01:37:37 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Looks like it's time to buy a David Lee jersey then.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Two New Articles After Grantland Revelation In Favor of the Trade
« Reply #143 on: July 29, 2015, 01:42:47 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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Shocking but true:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25252514/why-charlotte-hornets-need-frank-kaminsky-to-be-an-all-star

http://nyloncalculus.com/2015/07/28/the-charlotte-hornets-probably-should-have-taken-the-picks/

Haha! I love how in the CBS article it blasts the Charlotte front office worker for saying, "We wouldn't have been comfortable picking players in another range." The team literally has the whole year to scout and two months to do nothing but assess draft prospects, but they zeroed in on one player to the point that they didn't have an organized list or "draft board" in which they were comfortable following. Man am I glad we have Danny at the helm.

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #144 on: July 29, 2015, 02:38:53 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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You know reading the article, I still don't understand why people kept feeling that the Cavs were in chill mode, because every game was pretty close.

According to several people here the games weren't even close either, i.e. their observations didn't fit with their preconceived notions of what was going to happen in the series, so they warped the semantics of the word "close."  ;)

Well, it wasn't close in that Boston had much of a chance to win but it was close in that Cleveland had to play pretty hard and pretty well for each victory.

Mike

This is a good distinction. The Cavaliers definitely couldn't mail in those games like the two we won at the end of the season, but the Celtics were never really threatening to win any of them.

I think if you want to further bottom line it, you could simply say we were swept. Was it a massive bloodletting every game? No, but come on. We were swept. We couldn't even win one of the games at home with the other team taking it easy with a 2-0 and 3-0 series lead.

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #145 on: July 29, 2015, 03:01:13 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I would not prefer a core of Winslow, Vonleh and Smart to what we have now.  Vonleh could be out of the league in a few years and Winslow was a fairly "meh" college freshman who happened to have a bit more than a handful of very good performances.

Mike

So could Sullinger and Nolynyk.

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #146 on: July 29, 2015, 03:03:14 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Looks like it's time to buy a David Lee jersey then.

From when he was a Knick at TJ Maxx ;D.

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #147 on: July 29, 2015, 03:25:18 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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I think Vonleh's issue was attitude, iirc. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that in his draft workouts something came across bad to Danny or Brad about his attitude. The kid has talent and potential, but with the culture that Brad is trying to build here I think they're trying to sway away from those types.

Now I'm of the opinion that the package was too much, but you HAVE to think that Danny said "Hey, I have Olynyk over here. Since Kamibsky is a clone of KO, why not substitute him for one of the picks?" If they were set on Kaminsky and we're working under the assumption that KO and Kamibsky are very very similar players with similar ceilings, then they had no reason to not take that deal. They could've got their guy along with more assets, and we could've fixed our PF jam and added Winslow. It makes too much sense for everyone involved. Surely KO was at least brought up as a possibility.

I'm sure Ainge brought him up but Olynyk is only signed for two more years whereas Kaminsky will obviously be around for at least four. Also, Kaminsky is younger by two years.

I'm also surprised to see that Olynyk actually wasn't a big 3-pt. shooter in college and so far hasn't really made that a reliable weapon in the NBA either. Kaminsky actually avg'd 1.1 a game and 41.6% his final year in college. In 3 college years Olynyk never shot more than 0.3 3s a game and had a total of 25 3s his total collegiate career.

Still, I get your point that Olynyk and Kaminsky are similar "types." Obviously the Bobcats either didn't do enough research on Olynyk, thought the contract difference was significant, thought Kaminsky was better, or all of the above. I suspect Jordan just liked Kaminsky better, and that combined with their unpreparedness led them to turn it down.

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #148 on: July 29, 2015, 04:14:54 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Looks like it's time to buy a David Lee jersey then.

From when he was a Knick at TJ Maxx ;D.

He should help them out and pick the same number as Courtney Lee. Help sell some excess jerseys.  ;D

Re: Lowe - Excerpt from Hornets article on Celtics' draft day offer
« Reply #149 on: July 29, 2015, 09:16:50 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
So could Sullinger and Nolynyk.

I think at the worst, Olynyk will be a back up.   Sully depending on his fitness which could adversely affect his health.   Both are subpar jumpers, not particularly fast but skilled in some areas of a game.   It depends of what you expected of them, I did not see either one of them as stars when we drafted them.   So I expected this level of play from them and do not see them as busts.  Their not thoroughbreds they are draft horses.