Author Topic: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?  (Read 6062 times)

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Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2015, 07:31:51 PM »

Offline ahonui06

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Not even close to MVP candidate, but potential all star if he scores over 20 ppg off the bench.
Actually, (and to make this conversation a bit more serious) it would be a major surprise if any Celtics player made it to the All Star.

That's the only part of the rebuild where we have not been successful so far.

Agreed. Boston has great team efforts every night but there isn't a consistent individual player on a nightly basis. Everyone picks up the slack on a game-by-game basis.

Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2015, 07:44:31 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Has there every been a team that had 2 sixth man of the year candidates? A small and a big could easily flip 6th & 7th onto the court, right? We must have a chance...

The only one that comes to mind would be the 1990 Pistons, who utilized both Vinnie Johnson and Mark Aguirre off the bench :o. Wow.

Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2015, 08:46:23 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I bet most of you were predicting we'd be a lottery team last year and if anyone said anything otherwise that was ridiculous too.

What i'm saying isn't ridiculous at all anyways how i mean it.  Thomas has a lot to work with this year.  Bold maybe.  Ridiculous?  Nah.

Thomas should have a very good year this year.  Under the radar absolutely.

I admit it.  I did not think the Celtics would make the playoffs last season but I will be shocked if he plays MVP caliber basketball. Maybe player of the week ( like Jamaal Crawford). And if he does, I hope we sell high and trade him.

Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2015, 09:44:11 PM »

Offline max215

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HAHAHA!!!

Oh wait, it's a serious thread?

No, he won't be an MVP candidate. If anything, CBS is more likely to win coach of the year. Isaiah has a strong chance of SMOY and he might almost be an all star. But if Jamaal Crawford and JR Smith and Manu Ginobili have never been MVP candidates, then odds are, IT4 won't either.

At his peak Manu's Per 36 stats were comparable to, but still worse than, Isaiah's when he was with us last year. Crawford's numbers are worse than Manu's, and Smith's are worse than Crawford's. Isaiah's Per 36 stats were actually nearly identical to Steph Curry's last year. While I don't think it's reasonable to try and make a case for Isaiah as an MVP candidate, your comparisons are off-base as well.

Off-base? My reasons for comparing them is that 1) those guys are good enough to start, 2) their main role is to be a spark plug off the bench, 3) they can fill it up in a hurry and 4) they have deservingly won 6th man of the year awards. That sounds like a way more apt comparison than comparing IT4 to Steph Curry.

As you probably know, but conveniently don't bring up, there have been plenty of per-36 monsters that don't keep up that level of efficiency when you actually give them 36 minutes.

Sorry, I should have been more clear as the reasons why you compared them are valid. My point is that (offensively) Isaiah is better than the 3 guys you named. And even if his Per 36 numbers don't translate, here are some raw numbers from each of these guys' SMOY seasons compared to Isaiah on our team last year:

Isaiah with Boston: 19 points, 5.4 assists, 2.1 rebounds, and .6 steals in just 26 MP

Manu: 19.5 points, 4.5 assists, 4.8 rebounds, and 1.5 steals in 31.1 MP

Crawford: 18.6 points, 3.2 assists, 2.3 rebounds, and .9 steals in 30.3 MP

Smith: 18.1 points, 2.7 assists, 5.3 rebounds, and 1.3 steals in 33.5 MP

These three 6th man winners averaged 31.6 MP between them, 5 more minutes than Isaiah averaged last year. Personally, I believe that Isaiah should get 30-32 coming off the bench next year. If we extrapolate out his stats for the 31.6 MP we get:

Isaiah's stats based on 2014/15 BOS stats if he got 31.6 MP: 23.1 points, 6.6 assists, 2.6 rebounds, and .7 steals

Edit: My point was also not to say that he's anywhere near the player that Steph Curry is, but rather to point out just how ridiculous his offensive numbers were last year.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2015, 09:44:54 PM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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I bet most of you were predicting we'd be a lottery team last year and if anyone said anything otherwise that was ridiculous too.

What i'm saying isn't ridiculous at all anyways how i mean it.  Thomas has a lot to work with this year.  Bold maybe.  Ridiculous?  Nah.

Thomas should have a very good year this year.  Under the radar absolutely.

I admit it.  I did not think the Celtics would make the playoffs last season but I will be shocked if he plays MVP caliber basketball. Maybe player of the week ( like Jamaal Crawford). And if he does, I hope we sell high and trade him.

He's already won player of the week, and no.

Everyone is so trigger happy nowadays they can't even recognize when they have an awesome player already right in front of their face. Everyone has been clamoring for a go to scorer and star level player, and here we were practically handed a 20/5 player on crazy good efficiency, and we should sell high on him? No. Only a handful of players average what IT averages on his kind of efficiency, and he's a top 3-5 4th quarter scorer in the league by the numbers. You're never going to get fair trade value for IT because of his height (which is dumb, but whatever) so there really is no point in trading him. He's a cornerstone piece on a crazy good contract.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 09:59:24 PM by DarkAzcura »

Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2015, 10:33:26 PM »

Offline greece66

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Guys, if we try really hard we can make this thread 10 pages long.

I haven't had such a thrill since the KLove threads.

Come on, let's make this happen!


Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2015, 10:38:56 PM »

Offline DKClassic

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Guys, if we try really hard we can make this thread 10 pages long.

I haven't had such a thrill since the KLove threads.

Come on, let's make this happen!



I will use Intimidating Shout

Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2015, 10:55:32 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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Guys, if we try really hard we can make this thread 10 pages long.

I haven't had such a thrill since the KLove threads.

Come on, let's make this happen!


i have nothing to add and think that pigs will be well into flight before IT ever sniffs MVP. but g666 wants a ten page thread so i will make my contribution to get us there.  ;D
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2015, 11:24:47 PM »

Offline alewilliam789

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I bet most of you were predicting we'd be a lottery team last year and if anyone said anything otherwise that was ridiculous too.

What i'm saying isn't ridiculous at all anyways how i mean it.  Thomas has a lot to work with this year.  Bold maybe.  Ridiculous?  Nah.

Thomas should have a very good year this year.  Under the radar absolutely.

I admit it.  I did not think the Celtics would make the playoffs last season but I will be shocked if he plays MVP caliber basketball. Maybe player of the week ( like Jamaal Crawford). And if he does, I hope we sell high and trade him.

He's already won player of the week, and no.

Everyone is so trigger happy nowadays they can't even recognize when they have an awesome player already right in front of their face. Everyone has been clamoring for a go to scorer and star level player, and here we were practically handed a 20/5 player on crazy good efficiency, and we should sell high on him? No. Only a handful of players average what IT averages on his kind of efficiency, and he's a top 3-5 4th quarter scorer in the league by the numbers. You're never going to get fair trade value for IT because of his height (which is dumb, but whatever) so there really is no point in trading him. He's a cornerstone piece on a crazy good contract.

I agree with everything you're saying, but if IT is this cornerstone player than why not start him?? Please don't tell me it's because of defense because it is proven that when on the floor teams only score 2 points more per game than with Smart on the court. Also if Thomas is a cornerstone player than wouldn't you put pieces around him to help him succeed in the starting lineup? I believe, like you, that he is a cornerstone player, but I feel like Celtics fans give him this two way treatment. They say he's the best player on the team yet they continue to say that Smart is the future and it almost seems like Thomas is expendable. Thomas is bar none the best point guard on the roster, the best player on the roster, and he is still only 26. He is a go-to scorer. He averages 5 assists per game with the ability to average 6 assists per game at his best which is easily good enough for a starting point guard. A player that can average 20 points and 6 assists should be starting.


Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2015, 12:00:30 AM »

Offline greece66

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Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2015, 12:41:59 AM »

Offline LilRip

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HAHAHA!!!

Oh wait, it's a serious thread?

No, he won't be an MVP candidate. If anything, CBS is more likely to win coach of the year. Isaiah has a strong chance of SMOY and he might almost be an all star. But if Jamaal Crawford and JR Smith and Manu Ginobili have never been MVP candidates, then odds are, IT4 won't either.

At his peak Manu's Per 36 stats were comparable to, but still worse than, Isaiah's when he was with us last year. Crawford's numbers are worse than Manu's, and Smith's are worse than Crawford's. Isaiah's Per 36 stats were actually nearly identical to Steph Curry's last year. While I don't think it's reasonable to try and make a case for Isaiah as an MVP candidate, your comparisons are off-base as well.

Off-base? My reasons for comparing them is that 1) those guys are good enough to start, 2) their main role is to be a spark plug off the bench, 3) they can fill it up in a hurry and 4) they have deservingly won 6th man of the year awards. That sounds like a way more apt comparison than comparing IT4 to Steph Curry.

As you probably know, but conveniently don't bring up, there have been plenty of per-36 monsters that don't keep up that level of efficiency when you actually give them 36 minutes.

Sorry, I should have been more clear as the reasons why you compared them are valid. My point is that (offensively) Isaiah is better than the 3 guys you named. And even if his Per 36 numbers don't translate, here are some raw numbers from each of these guys' SMOY seasons compared to Isaiah on our team last year:

Isaiah with Boston: 19 points, 5.4 assists, 2.1 rebounds, and .6 steals in just 26 MP

Manu: 19.5 points, 4.5 assists, 4.8 rebounds, and 1.5 steals in 31.1 MP

Crawford: 18.6 points, 3.2 assists, 2.3 rebounds, and .9 steals in 30.3 MP

Smith: 18.1 points, 2.7 assists, 5.3 rebounds, and 1.3 steals in 33.5 MP

These three 6th man winners averaged 31.6 MP between them, 5 more minutes than Isaiah averaged last year. Personally, I believe that Isaiah should get 30-32 coming off the bench next year. If we extrapolate out his stats for the 31.6 MP we get:

Isaiah's stats based on 2014/15 BOS stats if he got 31.6 MP: 23.1 points, 6.6 assists, 2.6 rebounds, and .7 steals

Edit: My point was also not to say that he's anywhere near the player that Steph Curry is, but rather to point out just how ridiculous his offensive numbers were last year.

seeing those stats, it doesn't seem like my comparisons are that off-base then.
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Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2015, 11:58:33 PM »

Offline sawick48

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these boards are just unreadable sometimes.....

Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #57 on: July 30, 2015, 12:02:34 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Has there every been a team that had 2 sixth man of the year candidates? A small and a big could easily flip 6th & 7th onto the court, right? We must have a chance...

The only one that comes to mind would be the 1990 Pistons, who utilized both Vinnie Johnson and Mark Aguirre off the bench :o. Wow.

Sick, nice example. Miracle on hardwood.
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Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2015, 12:28:42 AM »

Offline greece66

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Has there every been a team that had 2 sixth man of the year candidates? A small and a big could easily flip 6th & 7th onto the court, right? We must have a chance...

The only one that comes to mind would be the 1990 Pistons, who utilized both Vinnie Johnson and Mark Aguirre off the bench :o. Wow.

If only we had the Pistons starters  ;D


Re: Isiaih Thomas=mvp candidate?
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2015, 12:33:33 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Has there every been a team that had 2 sixth man of the year candidates? A small and a big could easily flip 6th & 7th onto the court, right? We must have a chance...

The only one that comes to mind would be the 1990 Pistons, who utilized both Vinnie Johnson and Mark Aguirre off the bench :o. Wow.

If only we had the Pistons starters  ;D

We do, in Greece. Just haven't found them yet (get on it!) :)
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