Author Topic: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners  (Read 15109 times)

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Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2015, 06:32:33 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Another loser in all of this are the Blazers. From being a playoff bound team to looking like one of the worse teams in the west. 

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2015, 07:39:28 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I agree with most of this, except for...

Lance Stephenson, Jamal Crawford, Paul Pierce, Josh Smith, Cole Aldrich. The Clippers bench be looking like a eastern conference playoff team.

Umm...no lo

Paul Pierce and Josh Smith sure, and I can accept Jamal Crawford.  But Lance Stephenson is going the Steve Francis / Gilbert Arenas route (he'll probably be out of the league soon) and Aldrich is nobody.

We actually have a better bench than the Clippers IMO, and by a significant margin.

Also, I don't think Pierce will be coming off the bench - I think he'll be their starting SF. 

1. Cleveland. Assuming Tristan Thompson will finally resign. The Cavs are on this list mostly because of the players they were able to keep. They were able to avoid a disaster in KLove leaving after giving up a future supertar for the guy. Then they add Mo Williams back, who many thought was over the hump then acored 50 points last year! Varejao coming back is also going to make a big difference. Ill end by saying i hate this team and it annoys me greatly that this will be the 6th consecutive year we have to see Lebron in the finals.

Honesty, I put Cleveland in the losers column.

If the reports are true about the ridiculous contract Tristan Thompson is going to be signed to, then the Cavs have gone all-in on a lot of really mediocre players.  The amount of money spend on Tristan Thompson and Iman Shumpert is ridiculous. 

Also I get the feeling that the Kevin Love re-signing is going to come back to bite them on the back side.  That's over $100M committed to a guy who has a history of being a loser, who has one of the worst injury histories perhaps in the entire NBA, and who is just coming off a dislocated shoulder - a major concern for a guy who's entire offensive game is based around jump shots.

Do people remember what happened to Bradley's show after he got his double shoulder surgery?  His three point percentage dropped from 40% to around 31% the following year....then the year after it went back up to around 40% again. 

Unlike Bradley Love doesn't provide defense, so if Love loses his jump shot for all of next season, combined with his infamously poor defense, then you might find he's actually a liability rather than an asset. 

Adding Mo Williams certainly helps offensively, but he is yet another guy on this roster who is infamous for his completely non-existent defense. 

This Cleveland team basically has three guys (Shumpert, Mozgov) who play high calibre defense on a consistent basis.  Plus there is Lebron, who plays defense at an elite level, but only when he feels like it.

This team is built entirely on offensive dominance, (much like the Thunder from a couple of years ago) and off the top of my head I can't think of many bad defensive teams teams who have won NBA Championships in the past two decades.  They'll be a great regular season team for sure, but I just don't know if they have what it takes to beat a team like San Antonio, Golden State, Houston, LAC or even OKC (now that Durant is back) in a 7 game series.  Even Memphis would be a tough fight for them.

They honestly won't have much competition in the East (I expect them to have the top seed easily) but I don't think there are many Western Conference teams that I can see Cleveland beating in a 7 game series.  The fact that they have locked up so many long term contracts only limits their ability to make add and/or move talent later - guys like Shumpert and Tristan Thompson (unless they have break out years) are going to be very hard to move on those contacts.  They are all-in, and they need to hope and pray that what they have is enough.

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2015, 07:40:50 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Another loser in all of this are the Blazers. From being a playoff bound team to looking like one of the worse teams in the west.

With you on this one.  The Blazers look really bad...

Honestly , Portland's only bright spots right now are probably Lillard and Vonleh.  If Vonleh has a break-out season (which he may well do - he was a beast in summer league) that could make things interesting.

Either way, I don't think they'll do much damage.

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2015, 07:54:41 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Another loser in all of this are the Blazers. From being a playoff bound team to looking like one of the worse teams in the west.

With you on this one.  The Blazers look really bad...

Honestly , Portland's only bright spots right now are probably Lillard and Vonleh.  If Vonleh has a break-out season (which he may well do - he was a beast in summer league) that could make things interesting.

Either way, I don't think they'll do much damage.

Vonleh is all promise right now.  Watching him play in the SL, I can see why some scouts are down on him/hornets gave up on him

very poor feel for game. Nearly non existant passing skills.  Poor pnr defender

Lillard is the only sure thing the blazers have right now.   IMO miscalculation by management to not trade Aldrige last trade deadline.  They could of got a ton back

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2015, 08:16:03 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Adam Himmelsbach ?@AdamHimmelsbach

Since nothing about the picks listed on this sheet changed whatsoever this off-season, aside from the acquisition of a couple of second rounders at some indeterminate point in the future, I'm uncertain what this has to do with the off-season.


I'm seeing a lot of "Well, things didn't get any worse so you can't say the off-season was bad" in this thread.


To me, saying "The Celts are pretty much in the same position as before, only they added David Lee and Amir Johnson!" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of how the off-season went.


That said if you wanted trades to get a star or a massive consolidation to open time for youth or a blow it type offseason to tank for draft picks, then yeah, you are most likely going to think the C's offseason sucked.



So, "the team didn't do / accomplish any of the things you would have wanted to see them do in order to improve its position for the future" doesn't mean "the team had a bad off-season"?

I'm curious what your criteria for a bad off-season is.


I'll stipulate that Ainge didn't make things worse, with the caveat that I don't really see the wisdom of doubling down on a roster likely to finish in the middle. 

"Not making things worse" is only a successful off-season, in my view, if you've got a capped-out contender on your hands and maintenance around the edges is sufficient to keep things going, or perhaps if you've got a young team with all the right pieces in place and all you need is time.

When you're in the midst of a rebuild, still looking for answers, "not making things worse" is not enough to call it a good off-season.

I think intelligent minds could persuasively argue for a number of other teams to be on that list at #5 other than the Celtics, but I care about the Celtics more than those other teams.  I think every summer is important when you're rebuilding, and Danny wasn't able to get anything meaningful done in my view.

Just tired of all the crying because "it cost us draft positions because we aren't complete crap" argument.

I'll enjoy a team competing this year, I'll leave the lamenting of lottery balls to others.

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2015, 08:41:22 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So, "the team didn't do / accomplish any of the things you would have wanted to see them do in order to improve its position for the future" doesn't mean "the team had a bad off-season"?

No, it doesn't. And I think you know that.

It means they didn't do what you wanted but that isn't necessarily bad.

For instance, using the Red Sox, in the 2012-2013 off season they didn't make any moves I wanted them to make, but in the end those moves led to the 2013 World Series title. As it turned out they weren't bad moves. they were just moves I wouldn't have made or wanted them to make.

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2015, 09:35:42 PM »

Offline footey

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Knicks are not bottom five. The got the best player in the draft, when we look back in 5 years. There trade for Jerian Grant was very good too.

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2015, 09:37:57 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Lillard is the only sure thing the blazers have right now.   IMO miscalculation by management to not trade Aldrige last trade deadline.  They could of got a ton back

They were 36-17 and tied for third in the West, it would've been beyond stupid to trade him then.

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2015, 10:32:27 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Winners:
1. Spurs (won enough to probably go 1-5, that team is scary)
2. Bucks
3. Clippers
4. Rockets
5. Cleveland

Losers:
1. Portland
2. Lakers
3. Dallas
4. Charlotte (the god awfulness of their offseason is way undersold)
5. Kings

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2015, 12:12:15 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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So, "the team didn't do / accomplish any of the things you would have wanted to see them do in order to improve its position for the future" doesn't mean "the team had a bad off-season"?

No, it doesn't. And I think you know that.

It means they didn't do what you wanted but that isn't necessarily bad.



Right, but when I say I'm disappointed with the off-season, I'm not simply stating a preference.  My preference was for the team to make moves that I think would have been better for the franchise long term.

My impression of the off-season is that the team more or less chose to tread water while making some minor moves around the edges.  I don't know what's going to happen.  It may work out well.  But my feeling is that it is a mistake.

So you are correct, I don't know that this off-season will turn out in retrospect to be a bad one.  But from my perspective, based on my values and beliefs about rebuild strategy, this was a disappointing off-season.

What should I say?  "This off-season was not handled the way I would have done it, but all of the moves are defensible, albeit by reference to strategies and values that are not my own, and the team got marginally better, so I can't criticize it"?
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2015, 12:16:09 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Just tired of all the crying because "it cost us draft positions because we aren't complete crap" argument.

I'll enjoy a team competing this year, I'll leave the lamenting of lottery balls to others.


I'm tired of every argument that makes even passing reference to draft position getting curt, condescending, reductive responses like this one.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2015, 12:22:20 PM »

Offline ederson

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I don`t see the Spurs being mentioned ....
The bench may got a bit thiner but they resigned Leonard and Duncan and got LMA and D.West

I don`t think they could do much better

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2015, 12:28:29 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Just tired of all the crying because "it cost us draft positions because we aren't complete crap" argument.

I'll enjoy a team competing this year, I'll leave the lamenting of lottery balls to others.


I'm tired of every argument that makes even passing reference to draft position getting curt, condescending, reductive responses like this one.

It wasn't a passing reference, you've expanded on it quite a few times in this thread as it is... talking about how the improvement in talent for this team hurts future draft positions, etc. The point of showing off all those future draft picks, more than anything, is that lamenting ping pong balls is a waste of energy when you have a myriad of avenues to improve the team (including other teams doing the losing for us, even when they don't have the incentive to do so).

If the only thing we had were our picks and that's it, then sure I could sympathize a bit more, but cap space flexibility going forward and a crap top of draft picks going forward (on top of our own) just seems like a waste of energy to give that as much weight to the "losers" argument that it needs to be.

So for now, I'll enjoy competitive basketball with a hopefully improved team... we'll see what can be manged in the future with our assets if we find any takes in the future.

Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2015, 12:30:08 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Just tired of all the crying because "it cost us draft positions because we aren't complete crap" argument.

I'll enjoy a team competing this year, I'll leave the lamenting of lottery balls to others.


I'm tired of every argument that makes even passing reference to draft position getting curt, condescending, reductive responses like this one.

It wasn't a passing reference, you've expanded on it quite a few times in this thread as it is... talking about how the improvement in talent for this team hurts future draft positions, etc.


Acknowledging that a move to improve in the short term hurts the team's draft picks is "crying about ping pong balls" . . . got it.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Top 5 offseason Losers..and winners
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2015, 12:40:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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What should I say?  "This off-season was not handled the way I would have done it, but all of the moves are defensible, albeit by reference to strategies and values that are not my own, and the team got marginally better, so I can't criticize it"?
In a thread that is talking about who had the 5 worst off seasons thus far, yeah. If you can say " all of the moves are defensible...and the team got marginally better" objectively then how can you say it was one of 5 worst offseasons of any team in the NBA?

Without really analyzing I can definitely say that Portland, Dallas, Toronto, Washington and Charlotte had worst offseasons than the Celtics and I am someone that was hoping for draft day trades to trade up and using the cap space to trade for someone better than David Lee. It didn't happen but objectively the Celtics got better, if only slightly, and didn't have a bottom 5 offseason simply because Danny couldn't accomplish what I wanted fast enough.

Eventually I have confidence that Ainge will land that star and that this season of marginal movement forward will be worth it. Just gotta have patience.