Author Topic: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion  (Read 42786 times)

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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2015, 10:41:33 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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And some GMs seem fine to be on relative autopilot, but it all works. Well the league works... my team, like YH is in a ridiculous free-fall.

thanks for rubbing that in.  I'm now going to flame war you in every single fantasy league possible.  But seriously, has a team ever (dare I say) dominated the first half of a season, only to completely fall apart?  It's a freaking joke....

Anyway, if I am not mistaken, the h2h league was the more drama filled league, steps were taken to curb it, and we've had pretty good success with that.  I think the points league can still be saved.

Maybe we need to work out a trash-for-trash season-saving deal that helps (addition by subtraction) both teams?
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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2015, 10:57:42 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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In the celticsblog baseball league for example, trades get vetoed once in a while without anyone flying off the handle, or anyone even really making any posts to explain why they vetoed the deal. It is just accepted that a significant part of the league felt it was unfair, and they either revise the deal or move on. No drama necessary. Honestly, there are maybe 10 to 14 GMs around at most on any given week during the season in our basketball PTS league. If 7 of them manage to click the veto button on a deal, assuming two out of the 12 are the two GMs who made the deal, then 7 out of 10-12 GMs vetoed it, people should accept that. Maybe ask people why they vetoed it to understand how to revise it, but flying off the handle and throwing blame around should be considered a strike in the behavior rule.


<sarcasm>

WHY ARE YOU BRINGING UP THE BASEBALL LEAGUE, HP!?!!?? THIS FEELS LIKE PREEMPTIVE GLOATING B/C (A) YOU JUST PASSED ME INTO 3RD PLACE AND (B) B/C WE'RE PLAYING EACH OTEHR THIS WEEK AND MY TEAM IS PLAYING LIKE THEIR COACHED BY ML CARR AND TODDY DAY!!!!!!!!!

TAKE IT BACK!!!

</sarcasm>

That might be the weirdest keeper league I've ever been a part of.  Membership stays steady year after year (for the most part), guys stay active, there are a decent number of trades...  But very little discussion of any nature, and certainly not drama.

WHY IS ROY POSTING IN THIS THREAD!?!?! MOD CONSPIRACY  ;D ;D

WHY AM I STILL USING CAPS LOCK??!??! I.T. CONSPIRACY  ;D ;D

Baseball tends to just be chiller i think... I know its just a summer nerdy distraction for me (i watch maybe 1 non-playoff baseball game a year.

And some GMs seem fine to be on relative autopilot, but it all works. Well the league works... my team, like YH is in a ridiculous free-fall.



Lol...the baseball league is just about the only league I have ever won anything in, so I have to bring it up wherever and whenever I can!! ;D

Its also funny because I watch literally zero baseball games in comparison to 80-100 basketball games a year, but I suck in the basketball leagues!


I agree with Roy's statement though, if I didn't know some of the GMs in there from the basketball leagues, I would honestly wonder if I was playing against any actual humans in the baseball league or if it was all just computer simulated team management!

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2015, 11:02:07 AM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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One solution a lot of people take:  Just ignore the offers.  It happens.  I've sent byennie probably 15 different trade offers over the past month and haven't received a response on any.  I just assume he's not interested.   


I totally and completely DISAGREE.  I find owners that ignore trades to be awful. honestly.  It takes .5 seconds to click reject.  leaving trades open is, in my opinion, somewhat rude.  In real life, if danny calls a gm and offers a trade and it is met with silence, what do you think that does to potential relations down the road? It makes no sense. 

Maybe a better system, and this would require more work for LB (and others who send lots of trades) would be that you keep a spreadsheet of sorts that lists trade offers you've sent out.  that way, you don't send the same offer 35 times.  You could even put in notes that the other owner has told you as part of trade discussions. 



Yup. 100% agree with YH here.

This is from my H2h spreadsheet (Discussions redacted to protect the innocent.  ;D):



How hard is that? If you took 10% of the time you spent sending offers to listen and digest what folks tell you you might not be in the position of folks getting frustrated that you are offering the same thing (or virtually the same thing with some minor tweak) over and over and over.

I'm really not trying to pile on either.

But I'm also getting really frustrated with the suggestion that everything is someoene else's problem to fix (i.e. "Just ignore the offers...")

And probably frustrated b/c this literally just happened again 4 mins ago  :-\ >:(

I'm sorry... i'll step away for a while, b/c my comments are probably reaching the point of diminishing returns.
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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2015, 11:17:02 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Eh to be clear I said that some people choose to ignore the offers or in my case, I sometimes can't keep up with the amount of offers I receive so a couple fall through the cracks.  This is more a comment on Harry's rule suggestion to require all trades receive a response. It's probably unrealistic.  We can vote on it eventually though.

The behavior thing seems best resolved with a simple, "the commish reserves the right to remove members of the league".  That's pretty self explanatory but if it helps to add it we should vote on adding it.

I'm not sure there's much left to add to that. 

Any thoughts on an official league name other than the lambier one?

Any thoughts on clarifying the language on the "trading future picks" rule?

Any thoughts on clarifying the language on the 75 missed game rule? 

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2015, 11:44:41 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Anyone got any thoughts on abolishing adjusted standings and just making the lotto a random drawing where each team has the same odds of landing the top picks?  There could be a live google hangouts on air where Byennie pulls envelopes out of a hat for each pick... Or we can use a computer program so we don't have to worry about Byennie freezing an envelope.  Anyone second the motion for a future vote ?

I've seen a couple members who don't like the current adjusted standings method.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2015, 12:01:53 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Anyone got any thoughts on abolishing adjusted standings and just making the lotto a random drawing where each team has the same odds of landing the top picks?  There could be a live google hangouts on air where Byennie pulls envelopes out of a hat for each pick... Or we can use a computer program so we don't have to worry about Byennie freezing an envelope.  Anyone second the motion for a future vote ?

I've seen a couple members who don't like the current adjusted standings method.

No
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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2015, 12:05:19 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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A past idea that I think has some merit is an injured reserve spot. It's much tougher to manage than in baseball leagues, as the NBA doesn't have an official injured reserve list. However, having one spot for this in our league may be a good idea. Lots of teams run into situations where a guy like Durant, Westbrook, Rose, Melo, etc is out for a large part of the year, basically not only hurting their season but also damaging their total games played for that position. If we can implement a rule where you can place a player on injured reserve once they miss 5 consecutive games for example, and have to take him off injured reserve as soon as he returns to action, I think it would be worthwhile.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2015, 12:06:43 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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A past idea that I think has some merit is an injured reserve spot. It's much tougher to manage Han in baseball leagues, as the NBA doesn't have an official injured reserve list. However, having one spot for this in our league may be a good idea. Lots of teams run into situations where a guy like Durant, Westbrook, Rose, Melo, etc is out for a large part of the year, basically not only hurting their season but also damaging their total games played for that position. If we can implement a rule where you can place a player on injured reserve once they miss 5 consecutive games for example, and have to take him off injured reserve as soon as he returns to action, I think it would be worthwhile.

It could be worthwhile but with 20 teams and huge rosters already we are down to the dregs of the league on the waiver wire. 
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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2015, 12:12:50 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Anyone got any thoughts on abolishing adjusted standings and just making the lotto a random drawing where each team has the same odds of landing the top picks?  There could be a live google hangouts on air where Byennie pulls envelopes out of a hat for each pick... Or we can use a computer program so we don't have to worry about Byennie freezing an envelope.  Anyone second the motion for a future vote ?

I've seen a couple members who don't like the current adjusted standings method.

I think our current system is fine as it is.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2015, 12:25:14 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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#2 - Fix 75 missed game rule


Current Language:  "Team who have more than 75 unused games will be ineligible to keep a top-3 pick should they finish with one after the lottery (however, should such a team have traded away the rights to such a pick, the team holding those rights will not be so penalized)."

Amendment Suggestion: "Team who finish the season with 75 or more unused games will be ineligible to receive top-3 pick should they finish with one after the lottery.  Note 1:  This only applies to the draft pick owned by the original team and not an acquired pick from a different team.   Note 2:  If a team is projected to miss 75+ games and trades away their draft pick, the penalty will carry over to the new team unless the original team drops below 75 missed games before the end of the season.   Note 3:  If a team (projected to miss less than 75 games) has traded away their draft pick and subsequently misses 75+ games, the penalty will not carry over to the new owner of the draft pick." 

Pros:   This is intended to prevent inflating the value of draft picks through tanking.  This also closes a loop hole where a team with over 75  missed games can trade away their draft pick and have it suddenly be top 3 eligible for the new owner of the pick.   Lastly, this closes a loophole which would allow someone to trade away their draft pick and then "sabotage" it by exceeding 75 missed games.

Cons:  This is overly confusing.  While loopholes exist in the original language, adding this extra language will just make things more complicated.  Also, it's challenging to track projected missed games and how it applies to draft picks.  Teams might not be aware that the draft pick they are trading for carries a "75 missed game" penalty unless they are following the league closely.

I honestly still think 75 games is too much but have been in the minority IIRC so i won't make a further issue of it. (except in extreme injury circumstances (i.e. 3-4 guys missing 50+ games) i don't see a reason why any team should miss more than 20-30 games a year.


My main concern with the rule is the gaming of it and over complexity of it.

I say: Picks from teams missing mroe than 75 games are ineligible for a top 3 pick.

IMO, if you're active enough to trade away a lottery pick, you should be active enough to set your roster so that you don't miss nearly 10% of the possible games played.


so I guess I"m proposing:


#2 - Fix 75 missed game rule


Current Language:  "Teams who have more than 75 unused games will be ineligible to keep a top-3 pick should they finish with one after the lottery. (however, should such a team have traded away the rights to such a pick, the team holding those rights will not also be so penalized)."

or more cleanly:

Current Language:  "Teams who have more than 75 unused games will be ineligible to keep a top-3 pick should they finish with one after the lottery. This penalty shall be conveyed with the pick if said pick is traded away. Caveat Emptor."

« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 12:33:27 PM by Gainesville Celtic »
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Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2015, 12:34:52 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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There would then be a loophole where you trade away a pick and then intentionally miss more than 75 games to sabotage it.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2015, 12:37:42 PM »

Offline Eja117

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What if you just couldn't trade a pick if you were on track to have missed 75 games?  And if you are holding your own you're top 3 ineligible.
But if you trade it and then tank the new owner shouldn't be penalized more than a pick or two.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2015, 12:39:24 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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What if you just couldn't trade a pick if you were on track to have missed 75 games?  And if you are holding your own you're top 3 ineligible.
But if you trade it and then tank the new owner shouldn't be penalized more than a pick or two.
Preventing someone from trading the pick might be tough. Plus some team might want the pick regardless of the penalty since picks in the 4-7 range still obviously have value.

Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2015, 12:43:25 PM »

Offline yall hate

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There would then be a loophole where you trade away a pick and then intentionally miss more than 75 games to sabotage it.

But then again, if you did that, the other person would NEVER trade with you again, and likely other teams would follow suit.  So you'd blow up your trade chances just to be a jerk. not likely.


Re: CBPL Offseason 2015 Rules Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2015, 12:46:07 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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There would then be a loophole where you trade away a pick and then intentionally miss more than 75 games to sabotage it.

But then again, if you did that, the other person would NEVER trade with you again, and likely other teams would follow suit.  So you'd blow up your trade chances just to be a jerk. not likely.
It could be done unintentionally though. I own mmsb and brahamas picks. Both picks should end up top 5. What if they miss 75 games simply due to injuries or having rosters filled with dleague talent?