Ian Thompson article about Celtics building franchise using old school values

[Casperian]

Yes ... Acquiring David Lee and signing Amir Johnson for big money is definitely consistent with that. 

Developing youth is such a priority that the Celts are prepared to head into next season with three rookies on the roster who project to get zero playing time while ET, Lee, and Amir start.

The starting lineup is likely to feature 4 players who have been in the league for 5 years or more and who are finished products.  If IT starts it'll be 5.  Which would be fine, if any of them were good enough to start for a top team.

That's just nonsense.
Amir is on a very team-friendly contract, while Lee was acquired for Wallace's contract. Calling them "big money acquisitions" is more than just a little dishonest.

It's also nonsense to assume that rookies only develop by starting. A big part of development is to give these young guys obstacles to overcome. If they don't have to earn their spot and play by default, it could do more harm than good for their long-term development.

Rookies do need playing time, but they develop best in a functioning team, and a functioning team needs a hierarchy.

[Celtics18]

The old fashioned way is still the current way.  Contenders have been built around stars taken high in the draft since the 60s.

We can dress it with lots of nice sounding, vague, intangible adjectives, but the way the team is being built is hardly old fashioned, nor is tanking a new phenomenon.  Ainge is building from the middle and prioritizing trades over developing youth.  It may very well work. But it has at least as much risk and uncertainty built into it as building primarily through the draft, it just keeps fans generally happier in the interim.

I think that developing youth is very much a top priority for Ainge and Stevens and the Celtics.

Yes ... Acquiring David Lee and signing Amir Johnson for big money is definitely consistent with that. 

Developing youth is such a priority that the Celts are prepared to head into next season with three rookies on the roster who project to get zero playing time while ET, Lee, and Amir start.

The starting lineup is likely to feature 4 players who have been in the league for 5 years or more and who are finished products.  If IT starts it'll be 5.  Which would be fine, if any of them were good enough to start for a top team.

But hey, they're all assets.

I think we probably disagree on what developing youth means.  I've never felt that throwing youngsters into the fire for big minutes on teams that have little to no shot of winning games is the best method of development.

The Celtics seem to have set up an excellent situation for player development.  There are a lot of young guys who will earn minutes on this team.  There are others who won't get as many, but will need to be ready when their time comes.  Everyone will be made aware that learning to play to win basketball games is the main goal, not just playing to boost individual numbers.

I would say that the best development team in the NBA is, and has been for a while, the San Antonio Spurs.  They obviously don't develop guys by playing everyone more minutes than is good for the team from the get-go.  But, everyone knows they are a part of the team and could be called on to help when necessary. 

[PhoSita]

It's also nonsense to assume that rookies only develop by starting.

They don't need to start to develop.  I agree it's bad to just hand over starting jobs to rookies.

But giving them playing time, period, matters.  We can send them all to the D-League, but I don't think much of the efficacy of the NBA "Development" League.


Look, it didn't cost the team much in the big picture to acquire Lee or Amir.  Except that those guys will be playing large roles and getting substantial playing time for a team in rebuilding mode despite the fact that they most likely have no future in Boston beyond this season.

It was clear weeks ago that the team would not be upgrading to become anything more than an also-ran this summer.  That's fine.  I expect this rebuild to take a while.  But as soon as that became clear, I would have preferred for the team to just double down on seeing what it has in guys still on rookie contracts, instead of acquiring stop-gap solutions. 

Lee and Amir are stop-gap solutions at PF and C (Evan Turner, likewise, is a placeholder on the wing).  They are also "trade assets" because of the dollar value of their contracts.  There are arguments to be made in favor of acquiring both, but those arguments have nothing to do with developing youth.

[Rondo9]

It's also nonsense to assume that rookies only develop by starting.

They don't need to start to develop.  I agree it's bad to just hand over starting jobs to rookies.

But giving them playing time, period, matters.  We can send them all to the D-League, but I don't think much of the efficacy of the NBA "Development" League.


Look, it didn't cost the team much in the big picture to acquire Lee or Amir.  Except that those guys will be playing large roles and getting substantial playing time for a team in rebuilding mode despite the fact that they most likely have no future in Boston beyond this season.

It was clear weeks ago that the team would not be upgrading to become anything more than an also-ran this summer.  That's fine.  I expect this rebuild to take a while.  But as soon as that became clear, I would have preferred for the team to just double down on seeing what it has in guys still on rookie contracts, instead of acquiring stop-gap solutions. 

Lee and Amir are stop-gap solutions at PF and C (Evan Turner, likewise, is a placeholder on the wing).  They are also "trade assets" because of the dollar value of their contracts.  There are arguments to be made in favor of acquiring both, but those arguments have nothing to do with developing youth.

If the rookies are good enough to earn minutes, then they will. Besides it's not like the vets are on long term deals.

[mctyson]

Danny is right - you have to constantly be developing all the talent on your roster, in the D-leauge, overseas...anyone who might suit up for you at any time.

He has the right coach for it and the right roster for it at this time.  Maybe Boogie Cousins will see that this is the type of system that will finally give him the stability and support he needs to dominate.

[Celts Fan 508]

Brad is the second best coach the Celtics have ever had and he will give Red a run for his money at the top spot when his career is over. 

[SHAQATTACK]

I like to see Nerlins added to the current Celtics roster ....minus ET .......

[Boris Badenov]

It's also nonsense to assume that rookies only develop by starting.

They don't need to start to develop.  I agree it's bad to just hand over starting jobs to rookies.

But giving them playing time, period, matters.  We can send them all to the D-League, but I don't think much of the efficacy of the NBA "Development" League.


Look, it didn't cost the team much in the big picture to acquire Lee or Amir.  Except that those guys will be playing large roles and getting substantial playing time for a team in rebuilding mode despite the fact that they most likely have no future in Boston beyond this season.

It was clear weeks ago that the team would not be upgrading to become anything more than an also-ran this summer.  That's fine.  I expect this rebuild to take a while.  But as soon as that became clear, I would have preferred for the team to just double down on seeing what it has in guys still on rookie contracts, instead of acquiring stop-gap solutions. 

Lee and Amir are stop-gap solutions at PF and C (Evan Turner, likewise, is a placeholder on the wing).  They are also "trade assets" because of the dollar value of their contracts.  There are arguments to be made in favor of acquiring both, but those arguments have nothing to do with developing youth.

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. To my mind the fact that Danny signed Lee and Amir tells us something about how he views KO and Sully...probably as guys whose development isn't critical. Or at best, as guys who aren't ready to be solid starters.

The fact that we haven't signed vets in the backcourt seems like more of a good sign. If Danny had signed a vet PG who'd take minutes away from Smart, I'd be bummed out.

[PhoSita]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. To my mind the fact that Danny signed Lee and Amir tells us something about how he views KO and Sully...probably as guys whose development isn't critical. Or at best, as guys who aren't ready to be solid starters.

The fact that we haven't signed vets in the backcourt seems like more of a good sign. If Danny had signed a vet PG who'd take minutes away from Smart, I'd be bummed out.

I agree, the moves indicate a lack of faith in Sully / KO / Zeller becoming starting caliber players.  A lack of faith I tend to share, to be honest, but I'd still rather start Sully / KO in the hopes of showcasing them or a trade (or on the off chance they surprise us) and then give the backup minutes to Mickey and / or some young guy we pick up.

As for the backcourt / wing, my main issue is that Bradley and Turner are still aboard.  Neither guy is "old" per se, but I view both as finished products, and I don't view either as a particularly good player. 

To a lesser extent, re-signing Jerebko (a player I like, in vaccuum), falls into this category.  Jerebko is nice and all, but signing him to the same sort of deal as Amir suggests he's also a stop-gap / placeholder for a trade to be named later, and whatever minutes he gets could go to Young / Hunter / Crowder / Mickey / Olynyk instead.


I guess I would have preferred to see Danny make more moves like what Portland has done, acquiring young, athletic players who might show something when given a larger opportunity, and leaving open holes in the rotation to see if any of the younger guys can step up and prove themselves to be reliable contributors. 

[LooseCannon]

Lee and Amir are stop-gap solutions at PF and C (Evan Turner, likewise, is a placeholder on the wing).  They are also "trade assets" because of the dollar value of their contracts.  There are arguments to be made in favor of acquiring both, but those arguments have nothing to do with developing youth.

I don't think Johnson and Lee are stop-gap solutions.  I think there is a legitimate chance that both sign contracts with the Celtics beyond their current one.  I would not be shocked if, a year from now, David Lee is still a Celtic and Jared Sullinger is not.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Agree with the thought that Lee and Amir aren't stop-gap solutions. Both provide skills that we need and have not had for years now - scoring, rim protection, and consistent rebounding at PF/C.

I would not be surprised to see KO be the one traded because his value probably isn't that bad given his contract and age. I highly doubt with Sully's history of injuries, fitness, motivation, and trey bombing that he has much, if any, trade value at this point.

[Rondo9]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. To my mind the fact that Danny signed Lee and Amir tells us something about how he views KO and Sully...probably as guys whose development isn't critical. Or at best, as guys who aren't ready to be solid starters.

The fact that we haven't signed vets in the backcourt seems like more of a good sign. If Danny had signed a vet PG who'd take minutes away from Smart, I'd be bummed out.

I agree, the moves indicate a lack of faith in Sully / KO / Zeller becoming starting caliber players.  A lack of faith I tend to share, to be honest, but I'd still rather start Sully / KO in the hopes of showcasing them or a trade (or on the off chance they surprise us) and then give the backup minutes to Mickey and / or some young guy we pick up.

Personally though It seems that Lee was acquired because he's a better asset than Wallace rather than the lack of faith in Sullinger and Olynyk. With Amir well the Celtics needed a rim protector and Amir just happened to be there.

[slamtheking]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. To my mind the fact that Danny signed Lee and Amir tells us something about how he views KO and Sully...probably as guys whose development isn't critical. Or at best, as guys who aren't ready to be solid starters.

The fact that we haven't signed vets in the backcourt seems like more of a good sign. If Danny had signed a vet PG who'd take minutes away from Smart, I'd be bummed out.

I agree, the moves indicate a lack of faith in Sully / KO / Zeller becoming starting caliber players.  A lack of faith I tend to share, to be honest, but I'd still rather start Sully / KO in the hopes of showcasing them or a trade (or on the off chance they surprise us) and then give the backup minutes to Mickey and / or some young guy we pick up.

Personally though It seems that Lee was acquired because he's a better asset than Wallace rather than the lack of faith in Sullinger and Olynyk. With Amir well the Celtics needed a rim protector and Amir just happened to be there.

I think that's a pretty dead-on assessment

[ahonui06]

Brad is the second best coach the Celtics have ever had and he will give Red a run for his money at the top spot when his career is over.

Think you are being a little overzealous?

[PhoSita]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. To my mind the fact that Danny signed Lee and Amir tells us something about how he views KO and Sully...probably as guys whose development isn't critical. Or at best, as guys who aren't ready to be solid starters.

The fact that we haven't signed vets in the backcourt seems like more of a good sign. If Danny had signed a vet PG who'd take minutes away from Smart, I'd be bummed out.

I agree, the moves indicate a lack of faith in Sully / KO / Zeller becoming starting caliber players.  A lack of faith I tend to share, to be honest, but I'd still rather start Sully / KO in the hopes of showcasing them or a trade (or on the off chance they surprise us) and then give the backup minutes to Mickey and / or some young guy we pick up.

Personally though It seems that Lee was acquired because he's a better asset than Wallace rather than the lack of faith in Sullinger and Olynyk.


With Amir well the Celtics needed a rim protector and Amir just happened to be there.

First part:  Danny is smart enough to know the consequences of his moves, though.  Yes, Lee is a better asset than Wallace, though I think how much better is probably exaggerated around here.  Danny must know Lee is likely to earn significant playing time that would otherwise go to younger players.  If you think Lee is a really valuable player who may have a future here, that might not seem like a negative to you.  That's not my perspective.

Second part:  Yes, Amir has a skillset that helps the team win in the here and now.  The short term contract (very likely a one year rental) suggests he will probably be gone after this season.  The value that Amir brings to the table is short term, unless Danny uses his contract to acquire a longer term asset.