Ian Thompson article about Celtics building franchise using old school values

[rollie mass]

Seeing Smart talk about all the one-on-one work Stevens gives, and how rare that is in the NBA, makes me really think Sully is out the door, with Stevens saying just the other day that he hasn't seen him all summer.  Being Stevens, he was still complimentary about Sully "I've heard from people who've seen him that he's doing great" but Sully choosing to stay away from Waltham seems to be yet another example of him not buying in.  I hope I'm proven wrong, as I've been a Sully defender for most of his time here, but that quote from Smart contrasts with the fact that Stevens hasn't seen Sully.  If Jared wanted the time, I have no doubt Brad would make some appear.

i don't see how this applies to sully,smart asked for this private workout with brad-- with the understanding several of his friends were doing it-but there is no question that brad is a hands on
-sully is at an addiction and sports facility to treat his weight issues as well as conditioning-that is his priority ,he has 3 years playing experience but has to learn how to control his urges-i wish him all the luck and  brad has heard things are going well-
 the fact he got his father out of his career was a big step after the biggest admitting he needed help-

[BudweiserCeltic]

Seeing Smart talk about all the one-on-one work Stevens gives, and how rare that is in the NBA, makes me really think Sully is out the door, with Stevens saying just the other day that he hasn't seen him all summer.  Being Stevens, he was still complimentary about Sully "I've heard from people who've seen him that he's doing great" but Sully choosing to stay away from Waltham seems to be yet another example of him not buying in.  I hope I'm proven wrong, as I've been a Sully defender for most of his time here, but that quote from Smart contrasts with the fact that Stevens hasn't seen Sully.  If Jared wanted the time, I have no doubt Brad would make some appear.

Smart was also in the Summer League team. Also, Sully spent a great deal last Summer in Waltham for all the good that did to him.

So this knock on him this particular Summer for choosing to train somewhere else, outside from his usual comfort and influences, particularly when considering the pedigree of the John Lucas Facility, seems short-sighted to me.

Also, from what I've seen most players don't train in their teams' facilities during the Summer, mostly rookies and sophomore do.

For all the things that Sullinger can be criticized for, this one is not one of them.

[Big333223]

I think the team is in a really good position. If we're a decent, low-level playoff team the young players are getting experience and we're still likely to get a lottery pick from Brooklyn. If the team doesn't gel and we fall out of the playoffs we add more young talent and continue to develop as we have been.

[PhoSita]

The old fashioned way is still the current way.  Contenders have been built around stars taken high in the draft since the 60s.

We can dress it with lots of nice sounding, vague, intangible adjectives, but the way the team is being built is hardly old fashioned, nor is tanking a new phenomenon.  Ainge is building from the middle and prioritizing trades over developing youth.  It may very well work.  But it has at least as much risk and uncertainty built into it as building primarily through the draft, it just keeps fans generally happier in the interim.

[LooseCannon]

You know, after all the chatter about free agents not wanting to come here . . . it occurs to me that the Celtics have become selective.  Not everyone will get an offer from the Celtics.  With the building talent level and the good impression CBS is making around the league, I can see Boston becoming a more interesting destination for those players who will--I think--begin to see it as a badge of honor to be invited to play for the Celtics.  Not saying that everyone will be rushing to talk to Danny, but I do think that having meaningful standards matters to players.  It's about the money but it isn't all about the money.

What if the Celtics only go after star players who fit the mold of being a hard worker, trying hard on defense, and not being a selfish player on offense?  Who can they target?

[PhoSita]

You get the stars you can get and then worry about character and fit when you're putting together the supporting cast.

Beggars cannot afford to be choosers, and a team without a star in this league is a beggar.

[bballee]

You get the stars you can get and then worry about character and fit when you're putting together the supporting cast.

Beggars cannot afford to be choosers, and a team without a star in this league is a beggar.

Sounds like the Knicks formula, maybe include the Kings.  PhoSita, you sound like a perfect candidate to compile an All-Malcontents team.  Choosing to build with high-character, hard-working, high-IQ players who are developed with team-first cohesion and chemistry may not the be modern NBA way but it sure isn't a zero-chance game.  It may even avoid some of the more divisive, and reprehensible, pitfalls that sabotage so many franchises; not to mention the disgust they foster in some of us.  I, for one, give Danny and Brad high marks for taking the high road and the patience to hold out for a high quality (skills plus character) acquisition(s).

[Thruthelookingglass]

You know, after all the chatter about free agents not wanting to come here . . . it occurs to me that the Celtics have become selective.  Not everyone will get an offer from the Celtics.  With the building talent level and the good impression CBS is making around the league, I can see Boston becoming a more interesting destination for those players who will--I think--begin to see it as a badge of honor to be invited to play for the Celtics.  Not saying that everyone will be rushing to talk to Danny, but I do think that having meaningful standards matters to players.  It's about the money but it isn't all about the money.

What if the Celtics only go after star players who fit the mold of being a hard worker, trying hard on defense, and not being a selfish player on offense?  Who can they target?

I don't know.  Apparently Ainge liked IT, didn't like some others.  People thought we could have gotten Javale McGee but passed.  I think it is a slow build and we don't know the half of it; can't go after every talented player, those calls need to be more selective.  I'm really pretty happy about Amir Johnson and David Lee, they sound like quality guys even if they aren't considered top tier.  A reputation isn't built in a day.  Not saying I'm right, it's just the way it may be working.

[PhoSita]

You get the stars you can get and then worry about character and fit when you're putting together the supporting cast.

Beggars cannot afford to be choosers, and a team without a star in this league is a beggar.

Sounds like the Knicks formula, maybe include the Kings.  PhoSita, you sound like a perfect candidate to compile an All-Malcontents team. 

Sorry, can't respond in depth right now, I just rolled my eyes straight out of my head.  Pressing enter and hoping I didn't make any typos.

[Celtics18]

The old fashioned way is still the current way.  Contenders have been built around stars taken high in the draft since the 60s.

We can dress it with lots of nice sounding, vague, intangible adjectives, but the way the team is being built is hardly old fashioned, nor is tanking a new phenomenon.  Ainge is building from the middle and prioritizing trades over developing youth.  It may very well work. But it has at least as much risk and uncertainty built into it as building primarily through the draft, it just keeps fans generally happier in the interim.

I think that developing youth is very much a top priority for Ainge and Stevens and the Celtics. 

[LarBrd33]

I think we have one of the best ownership groups, front office and coaching staffs in the league. Everything about it is world class.  The only thing lacking right now is the talent of our players but we will certainly do everything we can to improve that.

[saltlover]

The old fashioned way is still the current way.  Contenders have been built around stars taken high in the draft since the 60s.

We can dress it with lots of nice sounding, vague, intangible adjectives, but the way the team is being built is hardly old fashioned, nor is tanking a new phenomenon.  Ainge is building from the middle and prioritizing trades over developing youth.  It may very well work.  But it has at least as much risk and uncertainty built into it as building primarily through the draft, it just keeps fans generally happier in the interim.

While it is true that Ainge is making trades, the not "developing youth" comment quite frankly makes no sense at all.

Consider:

1) To start last season, we were tied for the fourth-youngest team according to NBA.com, with an average age of 24.9 years old.

http://www.nba.com/magic/gallery/cohen-8ball-ranking-youngest-teams-nba-start-2014-15-season

2) We got rid of 5 players from that opening day roster, who's ages were the following on opening day:

Rondo - 28
Green - 28
Thornton - 27
Faverani - 26
Powell - 23

They were replaced on the final roster by the following players (opening day ages for consistency):
Jerebko -27
Datome - 26
Thomas - 25
Crowder - 24
Babb - 24

So with the exception of losing Powell for Babb (neither of whom played) the final roster was younger than the opening day roster, which, again, was the 4th-youngest in the league.

3) We have lost 5 players from last year's roster.  Those players are as follows (ages now as of today, including months):

Gerald Wallace -- 33 years (Happy belated birthday as of Thursday!)
Brandon Bass -- 30 years, 3 months
Luigi Datome -- 27 years 8 months
Chris Babb -- 25 years 5 months
Phil Pressey -- 24 years 5 months

We replaced them with the following:

David Lee -- 32 years 3 months
Amir Johnson -- 28 years 2 months
RJ Hunter -- 21 years, 9 months
Terry Rozier -- 21 years, 4 months
Jordan Mickey -- 21 years, 0 months

(I'm excluding PJ3, who I don't think makes the team, but he's 23 years, 10 months old, so is younger than any of the 5 departing players).

Anyway, to summarize:

1) Last year's opening day roster was 4th-youngest in the league
2) Last year's final roster was younger than the opening day roster
3) Despite 1 and 2, the team made the playoffs -- this would imply that the youth developed.
4) The 5 players replacing the 5 departed players are a combined 16 years and 3 months younger.  In other words, if there are no further trades, and PJ3 doesn't make the team, the final roster next year will be younger than this year's final roster, despite the 10 returning players all being a year older!

It is utterly wrong to say that this team is not concerning itself with developing youth.

[colincb]

The old fashioned way is still the current way.  Contenders have been built around stars taken high in the draft since the 60s.

We can dress it with lots of nice sounding, vague, intangible adjectives, but the way the team is being built is hardly old fashioned, nor is tanking a new phenomenon.  Ainge is building from the middle and prioritizing trades over developing youth.  It may very well work.  But it has at least as much risk and uncertainty built into it as building primarily through the draft, it just keeps fans generally happier in the interim.

While it is true that Ainge is making trades, the not "developing youth" comment quite frankly makes no sense at all.

Consider:

1) To start last season, we were tied for the fourth-youngest team according to NBA.com, with an average age of 24.9 years old.

http://www.nba.com/magic/gallery/cohen-8ball-ranking-youngest-teams-nba-start-2014-15-season

2) We got rid of 5 players from that opening day roster, who's ages were the following on opening day:

Rondo - 28
Green - 28
Thornton - 27
Faverani - 26
Powell - 23

They were replaced on the final roster by the following players (opening day ages for consistency):
Jerebko -27
Datome - 26
Thomas - 25
Crowder - 24
Babb - 24

So with the exception of losing Powell for Babb (neither of whom played) the final roster was younger than the opening day roster, which, again, was the 4th-youngest in the league.

3) We have lost 5 players from last year's roster.  Those players are as follows (ages now as of today, including months):

Gerald Wallace -- 33 years (Happy belated birthday as of Thursday!)
Brandon Bass -- 30 years, 3 months
Luigi Datome -- 27 years 8 months
Chris Babb -- 25 years 5 months
Phil Pressey -- 24 years 5 months

We replaced them with the following:

David Lee -- 32 years 3 months
Amir Johnson -- 28 years 2 months
RJ Hunter -- 21 years, 9 months
Terry Rozier -- 21 years, 4 months
Jordan Mickey -- 21 years, 0 months

(I'm excluding PJ3, who I don't think makes the team, but he's 23 years, 10 months old, so is younger than any of the 5 departing players).

Anyway, to summarize:

1) Last year's opening day roster was 4th-youngest in the league
2) Last year's final roster was younger than the opening day roster
3) Despite 1 and 2, the team made the playoffs -- this would imply that the youth developed.
4) The 5 players replacing the 5 departed players are a combined 16 years and 3 months younger.  In other words, if there are no further trades, and PJ3 doesn't make the team, the final roster next year will be younger than this year's final roster, despite the 10 returning players all being a year older!

It is utterly wrong to say that this team is not concerning itself with developing youth.

TP

Next up: Well the Cs must be too young then ...

[PhoSita]

The old fashioned way is still the current way.  Contenders have been built around stars taken high in the draft since the 60s.

We can dress it with lots of nice sounding, vague, intangible adjectives, but the way the team is being built is hardly old fashioned, nor is tanking a new phenomenon.  Ainge is building from the middle and prioritizing trades over developing youth.  It may very well work. But it has at least as much risk and uncertainty built into it as building primarily through the draft, it just keeps fans generally happier in the interim.

I think that developing youth is very much a top priority for Ainge and Stevens and the Celtics.

Yes ... Acquiring David Lee and signing Amir Johnson for big money is definitely consistent with that. 

Developing youth is such a priority that the Celts are prepared to head into next season with three rookies on the roster who project to get zero playing time while ET, Lee, and Amir start.

The starting lineup is likely to feature 4 players who have been in the league for 5 years or more and who are finished products.  If IT starts it'll be 5.  Which would be fine, if any of them were good enough to start for a top team.

But hey, they're all assets.

[PhoSita]

I think we have one of the best ownership groups, front office and coaching staffs in the league. Everything about it is world class.  The only thing lacking right now is the talent of our players but we will certainly do everything we can to improve that.

I think all three are at least a little overrated around these parts, but the celts are not hindered by any of those components, nor are they hamstrung by their market size.  That gives them a solid advantage over many of their competitors.