Poll: would you trade Rozier for Dougie Mcbuckets

[mmmmm]

I'm surprised people are saying this. He was far more accomplished in college and two summer leagues, and he's at a position of need instead of redundancy.

Well in his one season in the actual NBA, he played fewer minutes than E'Twaun Moore.

Without diving into the relative merits of MckBuckets as a player, that specific criticism is hardly very useful.   Lots of rookies play very few minutes.  Especially on playoff-bound teams.

Of the top 10 draft picks last year, only two, Smart (on Boston) and McDermott (on Chicago) played on teams that made the playoffs.  And Chicago was pushing hard for the playoffs the whole season, whereas Boston had massive roster changes and floundered around before deciding to go for it.

Smart's situation is really unusual.  It is not common that a rookie ends up playing over 1000 minutes on a team that makes the playoffs, let alone the 1800 he clocked. 

After him, the second-most minutes that any Rookie got on a playoff-bound team was Adreian Payne, who played 739 minutes for Atlanta. 

K.J. McDaniels played a lot of minutes, 1352, but all but 33 of those were for tanking Philly.  He got just 33 minutes in 10 games with Houston.

Chicago was expected to be one of the strongest teams in the East going into the season and they ended up winning 50 games.   They already had a strong roster and it's really hard for rookies to get time in those situations.

It's the same reason why rookies got so few minutes on Boston back in the 2008-2012 seasons.   And it's like that on almost all really strong rosters.

Sully, in fact, was a pretty notable rookie, in that he not only got minutes, but earned a starting slot on a team that had deep playoff aspirations (before injuries unraveled that season).  That's very rare.

Now, as to whether I'd trade Rozier for McDermott?  I dunno.  Probably not.   While, sure, we could use a shooter, we also need another quick, ball-handling point guard other than Thomas.   With Pressey gone, we are down to just those two.   

[Moranis]

I'm surprised people are saying this. He was far more accomplished in college and two summer leagues, and he's at a position of need instead of redundancy.

If you consider "NBA-caliber players" a position of need, McDermott doesn't qualify.

that is just silly.  McDermott has a much higher upside than Rozier.  I don't even think it is close. 

[D.o.s.]

I believe that you don't think it's close. But, again, this has little to do with Rozier, as I detailed elsewhere.

[littleteapot]

Without diving into the relative merits of MckBuckets as a player, that specific criticism is hardly very useful.   Lots of rookies play very few minutes.  Especially on playoff-bound teams.

Of the top 10 draft picks last year, only two, Smart (on Boston) and McDermott (on Chicago) played on teams that made the playoffs.  And Chicago was pushing hard for the playoffs the whole season, whereas Boston had massive roster changes and floundered around before deciding to go for it.

Smart's situation is really unusual.  It is not common that a rookie ends up playing over 1000 minutes on a team that makes the playoffs, let alone the 1800 he clocked. 

After him, the second-most minutes that any Rookie got on a playoff-bound team was Adreian Payne, who played 739 minutes for Atlanta. 

K.J. McDaniels played a lot of minutes, 1352, but all but 33 of those were for tanking Philly.  He got just 33 minutes in 10 games with Houston.

Chicago was expected to be one of the strongest teams in the East going into the season and they ended up winning 50 games.   They already had a strong roster and it's really hard for rookies to get time in those situations.

It's the same reason why rookies got so few minutes on Boston back in the 2008-2012 seasons.   And it's like that on almost all really strong rosters.

Sully, in fact, was a pretty notable rookie, in that he not only got minutes, but earned a starting slot on a team that had deep playoff aspirations (before injuries unraveled that season).  That's very rare.

Now, as to whether I'd trade Rozier for McDermott?  I dunno.  Probably not.   While, sure, we could use a shooter, we also need another quick, ball-handling point guard other than Thomas.   With Pressey gone, we are down to just those two.

How many 21+ year old rookies who played less then 400 minutes went on to become even rotation-caliber players? All I can think of in recent memory is Danny Green.

[jyyzzoel]

We may have to sweeting it with a late first or second. The Bulls wanted him At 22 but we snatched him first.

where did you read the bulls wanted him at 22? do you have a link to an article?

and to answer your question no i wouldn't trade rosier for mcbuckets.  rozier has higher upside at this point in time due to his elite athleticism, speed, and length.

[KG Living Legend]

No. If I'm snagging a bench guy from the Bulls who can shoot I'm aiming for Mirotic.

No way that's happening for Rozier.

I don't think I said that it would?

In any case, I don't trade anyone from the Celtics for McDermott. I don't send them a top 55 protected pick for McDermott.

 DOS, that's just not a smart statement considering he's worth much more than that around the league.

[D.o.s.]

That sounds like a statement you should be able to source if true.

[LooseCannon]

Without diving into the relative merits of MckBuckets as a player, that specific criticism is hardly very useful.   Lots of rookies play very few minutes.  Especially on playoff-bound teams.

Of the top 10 draft picks last year, only two, Smart (on Boston) and McDermott (on Chicago) played on teams that made the playoffs.  And Chicago was pushing hard for the playoffs the whole season, whereas Boston had massive roster changes and floundered around before deciding to go for it.

Smart's situation is really unusual.  It is not common that a rookie ends up playing over 1000 minutes on a team that makes the playoffs, let alone the 1800 he clocked. 

After him, the second-most minutes that any Rookie got on a playoff-bound team was Adreian Payne, who played 739 minutes for Atlanta. 

K.J. McDaniels played a lot of minutes, 1352, but all but 33 of those were for tanking Philly.  He got just 33 minutes in 10 games with Houston.

Chicago was expected to be one of the strongest teams in the East going into the season and they ended up winning 50 games.   They already had a strong roster and it's really hard for rookies to get time in those situations.

It's the same reason why rookies got so few minutes on Boston back in the 2008-2012 seasons.   And it's like that on almost all really strong rosters.

Sully, in fact, was a pretty notable rookie, in that he not only got minutes, but earned a starting slot on a team that had deep playoff aspirations (before injuries unraveled that season).  That's very rare.

Now, as to whether I'd trade Rozier for McDermott?  I dunno.  Probably not.   While, sure, we could use a shooter, we also need another quick, ball-handling point guard other than Thomas.   With Pressey gone, we are down to just those two.

How many 21+ year old rookies who played less then 400 minutes went on to become even rotation-caliber players? All I can think of in recent memory is Danny Green.

Jimmy Butler, Jeremy Lin, Alonzo Gee, Gerald Henderson, Andre Roberson, CJ Watson.....

[Eja117]

I'm surprised people are saying this. He was far more accomplished in college and two summer leagues, and he's at a position of need instead of redundancy.

If you consider "NBA-caliber players" a position of need, McDermott doesn't qualify.

The guy was all-summer league so I think he has a chance.

He also got hurt last year so ended up behind and then essentially in Thib's doghouse, but Thibs isn't there any more.

He was playing behind Dunleavy, Snell, and sorta Jimmy Butler so he wasn't really needed and the general idea was just for him to camp out behind the three point line to spread the floor.

I think he's got a better chance of playing more this year.

If Doug isn't NBA caliber than there are some other guys that aren't NBA caliber. Possibly James Young, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh, TJ Warren, CJ McCollum, Gary Harris, Bruno Cab, Jordan Adams, Shabazz  N, Kyle Anderson....essentially anyone that has a had a bad first two years isn't nba caliber.

Further I'm not necessarily saying the guy would save the day. Just that he is as good a prospect, or better, than Rozier.

[KG Living Legend]

I'm surprised people are saying this. He was far more accomplished in college and two summer leagues, and he's at a position of need instead of redundancy.

Well in his one season in the actual NBA, he played fewer minutes than E'Twaun Moore.

Without diving into the relative merits of MckBuckets as a player, that specific criticism is hardly very useful.   Lots of rookies play very few minutes.  Especially on playoff-bound teams.

Of the top 10 draft picks last year, only two, Smart (on Boston) and McDermott (on Chicago) played on teams that made the playoffs.  And Chicago was pushing hard for the playoffs the whole season, whereas Boston had massive roster changes and floundered around before deciding to go for it.

Smart's situation is really unusual.  It is not common that a rookie ends up playing over 1000 minutes on a team that makes the playoffs, let alone the 1800 he clocked. 

After him, the second-most minutes that any Rookie got on a playoff-bound team was Adreian Payne, who played 739 minutes for Atlanta. 

K.J. McDaniels played a lot of minutes, 1352, but all but 33 of those were for tanking Philly.  He got just 33 minutes in 10 games with Houston.

Chicago was expected to be one of the strongest teams in the East going into the season and they ended up winning 50 games.   They already had a strong roster and it's really hard for rookies to get time in those situations.

It's the same reason why rookies got so few minutes on Boston back in the 2008-2012 seasons.   And it's like that on almost all really strong rosters.

Sully, in fact, was a pretty notable rookie, in that he not only got minutes, but earned a starting slot on a team that had deep playoff aspirations (before injuries unraveled that season).  That's very rare.

Now, as to whether I'd trade Rozier for McDermott?  I dunno.  Probably not.   While, sure, we could use a shooter, we also need another quick, ball-handling point guard other than Thomas.   With Pressey gone, we are down to just those two.

 Great post mmmmmmm, TP

[tarheelsxxiii]

A regression model created by fivethirtyeight sports (while imperfect, as I've detailed elsewhere) calculated Rozier to have one of the highest bust potentials in the draft (54/60 I believe). No chance of being a star, 18% chance of being a role player, 30% chance of being a role player, and over 50% chance of being a bust.

Details of the model, and the calculated potentials can be found here:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/projecting-the-top-50-players-in-the-2015-nba-draft-class/

[D.o.s.]

I'm surprised people are saying this. He was far more accomplished in college and two summer leagues, and he's at a position of need instead of redundancy.

If you consider "NBA-caliber players" a position of need, McDermott doesn't qualify.

The guy was all-summer league so I think he has a chance.

He also got hurt last year so ended up behind and then essentially in Thib's doghouse, but Thibs isn't there any more.

He was playing behind Dunleavy, Snell, and sorta Jimmy Butler so he wasn't really needed and the general idea was just for him to camp out behind the three point line to spread the floor.

I think he's got a better chance of playing more this year.

If Doug isn't NBA caliber than there are some other guys that aren't NBA caliber. Possibly James Young, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh, TJ Warren, CJ McCollum, Gary Harris, Bruno Cab, Jordan Adams, Shabazz  N, Kyle Anderson....essentially anyone that has a had a bad first two years isn't nba caliber.

Further I'm not necessarily saying the guy would save the day. Just that he is as good a prospect, or better, than Rozier.

Yeah I'm indifferent to a Rozier/McDermott swap, but I don't see him as someone worth pursuing in the slightest.

[Eja117]

I'm surprised people are saying this. He was far more accomplished in college and two summer leagues, and he's at a position of need instead of redundancy.

If you consider "NBA-caliber players" a position of need, McDermott doesn't qualify.

The guy was all-summer league so I think he has a chance.

He also got hurt last year so ended up behind and then essentially in Thib's doghouse, but Thibs isn't there any more.

He was playing behind Dunleavy, Snell, and sorta Jimmy Butler so he wasn't really needed and the general idea was just for him to camp out behind the three point line to spread the floor.

I think he's got a better chance of playing more this year.

If Doug isn't NBA caliber than there are some other guys that aren't NBA caliber. Possibly James Young, Nik Stauskas, Noah Vonleh, TJ Warren, CJ McCollum, Gary Harris, Bruno Cab, Jordan Adams, Shabazz  N, Kyle Anderson....essentially anyone that has a had a bad first two years isn't nba caliber.

Further I'm not necessarily saying the guy would save the day. Just that he is as good a prospect, or better, than Rozier.

Yeah I'm indifferent to a Rozier/McDermott swap, but I don't see him as someone worth pursuing in the slightest.

I can definitely understand indifferent. So this is my question.....the Bulls call asking McD for Rozier straight up. Final offer. You say no? Because....why?  I probably say yes. I'm not saying it's a home run, but I'd say it's a stretch double.

[Tr1boy]

No

[D.o.s.]

@eja: I say no because I don't think he has as much of a chance of developing into a quality NBA player.

McDermott had a seriously impressive final year in the NCAA, but that season came with a lot of caveats (about to walk away from my computer after a seriously long week for the weekend, but that Creighton team was absurd and ridiculous in a lot of ways), and I don't think he has the athletic ability to compensate for the increase in defense from the NCAA to the NBA, and I don't think he's got much of a shot at becoming a particularly good defender at the NBA level. I see him more as a bigger Jimmer than a slightly smaller Ryan Anderson.