Author Topic: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks  (Read 14516 times)

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Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2015, 11:23:09 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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This trade only makes sense if you believe that Jonathon Holmes (an undrafted rookie) is better than Olynyk and Turner (2 proven NBA rotation players). I do not believe anyone in their right mind would come to this conclusion. Cap space is irrelevant to the C's at this point.
exactly.  one of the worst ideas posted. 

an undrafted player with an ok summer league is worth dumping 2 productive players with better skillsets and minimal cap space for next season when cap room wouldn't even be an issue  ::)

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2015, 11:26:03 AM »

Offline colincb

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Cavs supposedly looking to trade Haywood to create a trade exception. Probably something like a second and Haywood for a top 55 protected second with a trading partner who has excess cap room. Cavs trade partner cuts him.

Cavs get trade exception. Counterparty gets a second in essence. Cavs would pay a ridiculous amount with the added tax to actually have the $!0M on their books otherwise.

It's not about the luxury tax.  Haywood will be released.  The exception lets them take on the salary in the middle of the season when they can see what short-term needs they have without sending salary back to another team.  Any salary they take on at the trade deadline counts fully (not pro-rated) against their tax amount.  So if they trade Haywood now for that $10.5 million exception, and then take on $10.5 million in salaries mid-season, they'll owe the same amount of luxury tax.  Having the TPE just makes trades easier, because it let's them get two $5 million guys from two different teams, and neither of those teams would need to take on any money (and would get their own TPE as well).

That's what Cleveland's trade of Rakeem Christmas yesterday was partly about -- to acquire one of the seconds needed to create this trade exception, as well make use of it for expiring contracts in 6 months.

What's with the paraphrasing of Winhorst's article? Did you guys bother to read it?

The Cavs could choose to have a larger trade exception (by dealing with a Philly or Portland) over taking on the likes of Turner now. In fact there's a pretty good chance Ainge has already expired some form of deal like I suggest with the Cavs. But if not, I hope they will.

Nope. Knew about it from elsewhere.

That's great. I didn't see you report it for an major news outlets, so I chose to site such an article so the whole thing didn't need to be hashed out again in questionable detail.
Sorry, knew about it from a Twitter source before I saw the thread and when I read your deal and others, I knew people were off onto the wrong track. Cavs don't want to take salary back which made most of this discussion DOA since we don't have cap room to do the type of deal I talked about. POR or PHI do.

Windhorst (and Saltlover) both think it's for getting players this year. It's funny that Windorst would say that after noting the historically large tax bill the Cavs are facing. I'd wager that the Cavs are going to roll the new TPE they would get from the type of transaction I outlined over until next summer and use it then or roll it over again.

Cavs have been getting itchy about the huge bill they're facing for a while and it became apparent back in June when they traded out of the first. Now they traded Christmas to get a TPE. Pretty obvious that this is a big deal with them and they still haven't settled with TT, Delly, and JR IIRC, all who are looking for more money than they're worth.

The Haywood TPE, the contracts, the huge tax bills have been talked about for a while outside the hallowed halls of CBlog forums. Twitter feeds like Woj, Stein, Ford, Spears, Kyler, Givony etc. are my primary sources or Twitter aggregators like Hoopshype or Sports Spyder's sidebar. Quicker news than ESPN unless ESPN is the sole creator of the news or being used as a house organ for something like Deflategate. A lot of people have Woj up for the draft because it goes out on Twitter first from him on most of the picks. The ESPN guys on the air are checking their feeds.

http://hoopshype.com/social/
http://sportspyder.com/teams/boston-celtics/news

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2015, 12:28:12 PM »

Offline ssspence

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This trade only makes sense if you believe that Jonathon Holmes (an undrafted rookie) is better than Olynyk and Turner (2 proven NBA rotation players). I do not believe anyone in their right mind would come to this conclusion. Cap space is irrelevant to the C's at this point.
exactly.  one of the worst ideas posted. 


It's pretty hard to be an NBA "rotation player" when you've never played an NBA game. We'll see what Holmes and whoever else doesn't make the Cs this year (or have to be traded) turn out to be by comparison to Kelly Olynyk and Evan Turner by the time the Cs are contenders again.

I think the lack of vision shown on this board lately is pretty weak.

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Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2015, 01:00:59 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Sorry, knew about it from a Twitter source before I saw the thread and when I read your deal and others, I knew people were off onto the wrong track. Cavs don't want to take salary back which made most of this discussion DOA since we don't have cap room to do the type of deal I talked about. POR or PHI do.

Windhorst (and Saltlover) both think it's for getting players this year. It's funny that Windorst would say that after noting the historically large tax bill the Cavs are facing. I'd wager that the Cavs are going to roll the new TPE they would get from the type of transaction I outlined over until next summer and use it then or roll it over again.

Cavs have been getting itchy about the huge bill they're facing for a while and it became apparent back in June when they traded out of the first. Now they traded Christmas to get a TPE. Pretty obvious that this is a big deal with them and they still haven't settled with TT, Delly, and JR IIRC, all who are looking for more money than they're worth.

The Haywood TPE, the contracts, the huge tax bills have been talked about for a while outside the hallowed halls of CBlog forums. Twitter feeds like Woj, Stein, Ford, Spears, Kyler, Givony etc. are my primary sources or Twitter aggregators like Hoopshype or Sports Spyder's sidebar. Quicker news than ESPN unless ESPN is the sole creator of the news or being used as a house organ for something like Deflategate. A lot of people have Woj up for the draft because it goes out on Twitter first from him on most of the picks. The ESPN guys on the air are checking their feeds.

http://hoopshype.com/social/
http://sportspyder.com/teams/boston-celtics/news

While I think the Cavs would prefer to keep that TPE for next summer, I don't think they will end up doing so.  As long as LeBron is on one-year deals, they have to be in complete win-now mode.  Unless this team is near a record-breaking pace come the trade deadline, I expect they'll try to get an expiring or two at the deadline.  Maybe they'll be able to preserve a little of the TPE for 2016, but they don't want some other team talking to LeBron in free agency if he's missed out on a ring saying "look, they could have used this exception to get a player to put you over the top, but they were too cheap and didn't want to pay more luxury tax."

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2015, 01:01:36 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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This trade only makes sense if you believe that Jonathon Holmes (an undrafted rookie) is better than Olynyk and Turner (2 proven NBA rotation players). I do not believe anyone in their right mind would come to this conclusion. Cap space is irrelevant to the C's at this point.
exactly.  one of the worst ideas posted. 


It's pretty hard to be an NBA "rotation player" when you've never played an NBA game. We'll see what Holmes and whoever else doesn't make the Cs this year (or have to be traded) turn out to be by comparison to Kelly Olynyk and Evan Turner by the time the Cs are contenders again.

I think the lack of vision shown on this board lately is pretty weak.
Uh huh. so not thinking Holmes is better than KO and Turner is having 'lack of vision'?  I think you need to have your eyeglass prescription checked.


Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2015, 01:12:24 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
It's pretty hard to be an NBA "rotation player" when you've never played an NBA game. We'll see what Holmes and whoever else doesn't make the Cs this year (or have to be traded) turn out to be by comparison to Kelly Olynyk and Evan Turner by the time the Cs are contenders again.


We can still see what some guys do, without making this trade.  I think KO's potential is finite given his athletic ability, but this benefits the CAVs more than it benefits us.   That pick is going to be at the bottom of the first round and not a good pick.  In no way does your trade make us contenders, but it helps the Cavs.

Quote
I think the lack of vision shown on this board lately is pretty weak.

I think the only person here that lacks perspective is you.   This trade is bad, you don't trade NBA proven guys just to see what a guy can do.   

When a ton of guys do not agree with you, maybe it is you who needs to correct "your vision".

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2015, 07:47:54 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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This trade only makes sense if you believe that Jonathon Holmes (an undrafted rookie) is better than Olynyk and Turner (2 proven NBA rotation players). I do not believe anyone in their right mind would come to this conclusion. Cap space is irrelevant to the C's at this point.
exactly.  one of the worst ideas posted. 


It's pretty hard to be an NBA "rotation player" when you've never played an NBA game. We'll see what Holmes and whoever else doesn't make the Cs this year (or have to be traded) turn out to be by comparison to Kelly Olynyk and Evan Turner by the time the Cs are contenders again.

I think the lack of vision shown on this board lately is pretty weak.
Uh huh. so not thinking Holmes is better than KO and Turner is having 'lack of vision'?  I think you need to have your eyeglass prescription checked.



Haha, that photo made me laugh - TP ;D.

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2015, 07:50:36 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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It's pretty hard to be an NBA "rotation player" when you've never played an NBA game. We'll see what Holmes and whoever else doesn't make the Cs this year (or have to be traded) turn out to be by comparison to Kelly Olynyk and Evan Turner by the time the Cs are contenders again.


We can still see what some guys do, without making this trade.  I think KO's potential is finite given his athletic ability, but this benefits the CAVs more than it benefits us.   That pick is going to be at the bottom of the first round and not a good pick.  In no way does your trade make us contenders, but it helps the Cavs.

Quote
I think the lack of vision shown on this board lately is pretty weak.

I think the only person here that lacks perspective is you.   This trade is bad, you don't trade NBA proven guys just to see what a guy can do.   

When a ton of guys do not agree with you, maybe it is you who needs to correct "your vision".

I don't agree ;D. Look at Ainge, he's practically made a career out of it, for better or worse, lol ;D. Ugh.

I do have a stupid question in regards to this trade proposal, however - wouldn't it have been better for Cleveland to simply waive Brendan ;) Haywood, haha ;D (no big deal, btw), thereby creating a roster spot and the ability to sign a guy who could actually help them in Rakeem Christmas?  I'm not completely familiar with the Cavs' roster situation.  Hey, maybe we should just give them Tyler Zeller back, lol ;D.

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2015, 08:19:30 PM »

Offline colincb

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Sorry, knew about it from a Twitter source before I saw the thread and when I read your deal and others, I knew people were off onto the wrong track. Cavs don't want to take salary back which made most of this discussion DOA since we don't have cap room to do the type of deal I talked about. POR or PHI do.

Windhorst (and Saltlover) both think it's for getting players this year. It's funny that Windorst would say that after noting the historically large tax bill the Cavs are facing. I'd wager that the Cavs are going to roll the new TPE they would get from the type of transaction I outlined over until next summer and use it then or roll it over again.

Cavs have been getting itchy about the huge bill they're facing for a while and it became apparent back in June when they traded out of the first. Now they traded Christmas to get a TPE. Pretty obvious that this is a big deal with them and they still haven't settled with TT, Delly, and JR IIRC, all who are looking for more money than they're worth.

The Haywood TPE, the contracts, the huge tax bills have been talked about for a while outside the hallowed halls of CBlog forums. Twitter feeds like Woj, Stein, Ford, Spears, Kyler, Givony etc. are my primary sources or Twitter aggregators like Hoopshype or Sports Spyder's sidebar. Quicker news than ESPN unless ESPN is the sole creator of the news or being used as a house organ for something like Deflategate. A lot of people have Woj up for the draft because it goes out on Twitter first from him on most of the picks. The ESPN guys on the air are checking their feeds.

http://hoopshype.com/social/
http://sportspyder.com/teams/boston-celtics/news

While I think the Cavs would prefer to keep that TPE for next summer, I don't think they will end up doing so.  As long as LeBron is on one-year deals, they have to be in complete win-now mode.  Unless this team is near a record-breaking pace come the trade deadline, I expect they'll try to get an expiring or two at the deadline.  Maybe they'll be able to preserve a little of the TPE for 2016, but they don't want some other team talking to LeBron in free agency if he's missed out on a ring saying "look, they could have used this exception to get a player to put you over the top, but they were too cheap and didn't want to pay more luxury tax."

We're not far apart on this. I hear what you're saying, but think that Griffin's done pretty good putting the 2015-16 Cavs together and they're starting to get sticker shock with TT, Delly, and JR looking for far more than they are worth. Favorite IMO for next year as is and don't think they need more barring injuries. In that case, the TPE's there.

Also think that LBJ is going nowhere. If he's as bound to his native soil as he demonstrated by his return, he's not going to go through another fiasco like before barring some massive clusterF on the part of Gilbert. Of all the clubs outside of SAC and the NYK, CLE had the worst rep before LBJ made his triumphant return. Think Griffin has a lot more authority than his predecessor too, limiting the potential for damage from Gilbert.

Cavs might also be taking some heat from Silver/owners too because how much they're splurging while Silver is screaming poverty in advance of the next CBA wrestling match with a head of the union who hasn't been easy to deal with (see handling of revenue spike). Silver's full of crap, but she's trying too hard to look tough and the Cs and others (Sixers too) got screwed on the smoothing issue. Anyway, just a WAG, but this would be more grounds for grabbing the escaped hose and turning the spigot off.

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2015, 08:47:18 PM »

Offline AngryAndIrritable

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This is as bad as those 'Olynyk
 for Caboclo' trade ideas that keep rising up like a bad smell trapped in a sofa cushion.

Please explain the benefit in swapping out a stretch 4/5 for chump change to me?


Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2015, 09:14:35 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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This trade only makes sense if you believe that Jonathon Holmes (an undrafted rookie) is better than Olynyk and Turner (2 proven NBA rotation players). I do not believe anyone in their right mind would come to this conclusion. Cap space is irrelevant to the C's at this point.
But Summer League!!!

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2015, 10:03:11 PM »

Offline jambr380

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This trade only makes sense if you believe that Jonathon Holmes (an undrafted rookie) is better than Olynyk and Turner (2 proven NBA rotation players). I do not believe anyone in their right mind would come to this conclusion. Cap space is irrelevant to the C's at this point.
exactly.  one of the worst ideas posted. 

an undrafted player with an ok summer league is worth dumping 2 productive players with better skillsets and minimal cap space for next season when cap room wouldn't even be an issue  ::)

I think your wording is a bit harsh, but I generally agree with you. I have been an advocate of Turner's (basically saying that people just don't like him, personally) and Olynyk has proven to at least be a commodity in this league as a playmaking stretch big. I am just not sure why we would trade both of them for literally nothing. We might as well just let them play out their contracts if that's the case.

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2015, 06:26:02 PM »

Offline ssspence

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This option dried up today with Haywood being traded, but I did find an interesting article from USA Today back in May.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/05/29/jonathan-holmes-draymond-green-2015-nba-draft/

#HaveVision #SignJonathanHolmes
Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2015, 08:56:56 PM »

Offline flybono

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U have way to much time on your hands brother!

Re: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2015, 09:45:19 PM »

Offline ssspence

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U have way to much time on your hands brother!

I actually don't. I don't troll or post on every random thread -- I'm a pretty infrequent poster who has been on the board for the majority of its existance.  I just down swim downstream on every topic, like many.  I tend to focus on transactions, and I definitely don't homer.

I also find it humorous that half the responses on this thread are of the 'you just don't do that' variety -- notably from some of the folks who clearly do have too much time on their hands -- when I know 20x more about an NBA front office than any poster on this board, with a couple exceptions who shall remain nameless.
Mike

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