Just finished reading this article about the Cavs current financials, and B Haywood's non-guaranteed contract needing to be opted out of by 8/1.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13309223/cleveland-cavaliers-trade-second-round-pick-rakeem-christmas-indiana-pacers-set-larger-deal
My idea is noted above: trade Evan Turner and Kelly Olynyk to the Cavs for Haywood's deal, and those 2019 2nd rounders mentioned. I believe Haywood is only guaranteed around $2mil, so opting out of his deal would actually open up additional cap room this year, while also doing two things:
1) Removing Olynyk from the books for the Summer of 2016
2) Allowing the Cs to sign Jonathan Holmes, who I think has a chance to be a better two way NBA player than KO.
For the Cavs, they add a very useful bench player in Turner, shooting and size from Olynyk on a rookie scale deal, and a trade exception for $5mil+ they can use in season if they need to (as they did last year to acquire Mozgov). They'd presumably walk away from JR Smith after such a trade.
What?!?
You want to trade two productive, borderline starting quality NBA players (both on extremely cheap deals, no less) for an expiring contract and a couple of second rounders?!?
My lord...that's lunacy
Who cares about the second rounders.... they're filler. It's about moving forward with a better roster based on the constraints of the CBA.
Turner's not in Boston's long term plans. Olynyk is overrated due to his 'range'. He's too limited both offensively and (especially) defensively to be anything more that an 7th, 8th man on a legit team, if that. Sullinger and Mickey are better basketball players with differentiated skill sets, and KO's strengths can be easily replicated by Jerebko and Holmes.
As for this "first rounders for second rounders" notion, you're missing the point. Where Barry White Turner was picked at this point is totally moot. It's meaningless. The guy's been cast off by multiple teams, just like he will be by the Cs. Would you trade Turner for Isaiah Thomas? Sure you would -- that's 60th pick for 2nd pick, if you judge value based on where someone was selected years ago.
What are the best 15 assets we can put on this team for 2015, both for growth and trade? Personally, I believe Jones and Holmes have far greater upside on value over Turner and Olynyk -- neither of whom have any significant trade value now, nor are they likely to gain any.
I stopped reading the moment you said Mickey is better than Olynyk.
Good lord.
Apparently you didn't, considering you reply numerous additional times overrating Olynyk. Look, if you like Kelly so much, swap in another player. The question is whether Cleveland would even take Turner and (rookie scale contract du jour) at all, considering its questionable whether any of those players on the Cs could crack the Cavs rotation (except for Smart, who you'd not give up in this deal).
Have to say I find all the vitriol about Olynyk in this thread pretty funny. Classic homering on a highly overrated player.
Ok, let me get this straight.
You say I'm a homer because I'm overrating Kelly Olynyk. Please describe where I have overrated him?
Was it because I stated that he and Evan Turner are borderline starters on a playoff team? If so, then:
1) Kelly Olynyk started 13 out of 64 (20%) games last season and averaged 22 MPG
2) Evan Turner started 57 out of 82 (70%) games last season and averaged 27 MPG
3) Boston was a 7th seed in the playoffs
I think that's enough information to indicate that both guys are capable of spot starts on a playoff caliber team.
Or is it because I scoffed at the suggestion that Jonathan Holmes can replace what Olynyk brings? If so, then:
* Holmes averaged 17.9 points, 9 rebounds,1.6 assists, 1.6 steals an 1.4 blocks and 5 fouls Per 36 Minutes in
Summer League.
* Olynyk for his career has averaged 16.6 points, 8.5 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.3 steals, 0.8 blocks and 5.6 fouls Per 36 minutes in the
NBA.
Olynyk was also Boston's highest ranked player (and pretty well ranked among all NBA centers) in terms of Real-Plus-Minus. You may not put much trust in that statistic, but apparently Brad Stevens does. I think his feedback might matter more to Danny Ainge than that of either you or I (but probably only by a little bit
).
Holmes by comparison doesn't have a Real-Plus-Minus stat. Why? Because he's never played an NBA game.
But here you are trying to convince me that an undrafted Jonathan Holmes (a 22 year old, 6'8" tweener who couldn't even dominate Summer League) is a capable replacement to the Celtics for Kelly Olynyk (a 24 year old 7-footer tweener who dominated summer league and has already put up two seasons of solid NBA production).
Umm...no.
Talent wise, Holes is at around Chris Johnson / E'Twaun Moore / Greg Stiemsma level if you're lucky. Probably a really good D-league player, yet lucky to earn more than 3 MPG in the NBA. In fact if he one day becomes good enough to earn 5-10 minutes as a third string player off the bench, then he'd be overachieving in a huge way.
Honestly though, are you actually really serious about this?
I'm kinda waiting for you to come out and admit that you are just playing / trolling here, because the entire premise is just so completely irrational that I find it hard to believe you are really genuinely serious.
I mean, I'm not trying to come across as a smart-alec here, but this team is clearly in the process of transitioning from 'rebuild' mode to 'win now' mode when you look at the moves Danny is making. Yet we already have 5 guys on our roster now who are raw prospects - Rozier, Hunter, Mickey, Young and Jones - and who may or may not produce anything next year.
I don't understand how it would make any sense at all to trade two genuinely productive players (both on excellent value contracts, mind you) for some cap space (which we don't need) and yet another tweener raw prospect (which we also don't need, or even have room for).
I'm genuinely trying to look at this with an open mind and trying to find any semblance of rationality in this idea, and I just cannot see any. With all due respect, this is (to me) one of the most irrational and backwards trade ideas I've ever read posted on here.
This Celtics team is a team full of guys who are solid-to-good but not great. Really the only guy who breaks from that mold is Isaiah Thomas. Take Thomas out of the equation and you could (quite legitimately) argue that Evan Turner and Kelly Olynyk are as good as any other player on this roster.
I'd try to substitute those guys for other players who make this trade more justifiable, but I can't think of any that would make sense. About the only one is Young, and he doesn't come close to meeting salary requirements. .
Also the suggestion that Mickey is a better player than Olynyk is just crazy.
Mickey's greatest asset is his upside - he has the physical attributes (length, athleticism, frame) to be an elite NBA athlete. However at this stage, his skill set is still very limited. He's shown he can block shots at an elite level, and he's shown he can rebound at an above average level. He's shown flashes of potential with his midrange jumper. That's really about all though.
He doesn't have a post game, has never demonstrated three point range, isn't a good ball handler, isn't a good passer, doesn't have especially high basketball IQ, and was fairly turnover prone in college.
I really like the kid as a #33 pick but I don't see him ever becoming more than Brandon Bass with added shot-blocking as a best case, or maybe Reggie Evans worse case.
Topic: Trade Idea: Turner & Olynyk for Brandon Haywood and picks (Read 14583 times)