Ty Lawson traded to the Houston Rockets

[Rondo9]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Two DUI's definitely.

[MJohnnyboy]

Every time another player gets traded, or signs a contract, I revise upward my opinion of Danny's abilities as a GM.

I mean, compare that trash heap to what we got for Rondo.

If the Celtics get 2 lottery picks from Dallas and Minnesota this year, I wouldn't call it a trash heap, especially since the Mavericks got worse thanks to Rondo and aren't going anywhere this season.

Considering what Rondo's value is now, I think the Celtics got pretty fair value for him. Crowder + 2 potential lottery picks. Good haul for an expiring contract who probably wasn't re-signing.

[Endless Paradise]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Alcoholism has led to people being banned from the NBA for life. Moodiness leads to trades and lower salaries, as does decreased athleticism.

Trust me, the two DUIs were significantly worse. Especially since they were his third (or even fourth) DUIs total.

[Boris Badenov]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Alcoholism has led to people being banned from the NBA for life. Moodiness leads to trades and lower salaries, as does decreased athleticism.

Trust me, the two DUIs were significantly worse. Especially since they were his third (or even fourth) DUIs total.

Do you think the Rockets will get less out of Lawson than the Mavs got out of Rondo - the guy they had for half a season of utter mediocrity then benched in the playoffs, before cutting him loose in free agency with nothing in return?

[KG Living Legend]

Lawson likes booze.

[Boris Badenov]

Every time another player gets traded, or signs a contract, I revise upward my opinion of Danny's abilities as a GM.

I mean, compare that trash heap to what we got for Rondo.

If the Celtics get 2 lottery picks from Dallas and Minnesota this year, I wouldn't call it a trash heap, especially since the Mavericks got worse thanks to Rondo and aren't going anywhere this season.

Considering what Rondo's value is now, I think the Celtics got pretty fair value for him. Crowder + 2 potential lottery picks. Good haul for an expiring contract who probably wasn't re-signing.

I think you misunderstood. I'm saying the return was good for Rondo compared to the return for Lawson.

[MJohnnyboy]

Every time another player gets traded, or signs a contract, I revise upward my opinion of Danny's abilities as a GM.

I mean, compare that trash heap to what we got for Rondo.

If the Celtics get 2 lottery picks from Dallas and Minnesota this year, I wouldn't call it a trash heap, especially since the Mavericks got worse thanks to Rondo and aren't going anywhere this season.

Considering what Rondo's value is now, I think the Celtics got pretty fair value for him. Crowder + 2 potential lottery picks. Good haul for an expiring contract who probably wasn't re-signing.

I think you misunderstood. I'm saying the return was good for Rondo compared to the return for Lawson.

I did misread it. I thought you said it was worse than the "trash heap" we got for Rondo. Dont know how I did that.

My b.

[Endless Paradise]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Alcoholism has led to people being banned from the NBA for life. Moodiness leads to trades and lower salaries, as does decreased athleticism.

Trust me, the two DUIs were significantly worse. Especially since they were his third (or even fourth) DUIs total.

Do you think the Rockets will get less out of Lawson than the Mavs got out of Rondo - the guy they had for half a season of utter mediocrity then benched in the playoffs, before cutting him loose in free agency with nothing in return?

Completely depends on Lawson.

[RJ87]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Considering driving under the influence not only endangers the drivers life, but recklessly endangers the lives of other people on the roads, I'm gonna go with the DUIs.

I can't remember the last time an ACL tear claimed the life of an innocent person.

[GetLucky]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Alcoholism has led to people being banned from the NBA for life. Moodiness leads to trades and lower salaries, as does decreased athleticism.

Trust me, the two DUIs were significantly worse. Especially since they were his third (or even fourth) DUIs total.

Do you think the Rockets will get less out of Lawson than the Mavs got out of Rondo - the guy they had for half a season of utter mediocrity then benched in the playoffs, before cutting him loose in free agency with nothing in return?

Was Lawson leading the league in assists and all guards in rebounds at the time of his trade? Was Rondo facing possible suspension for breaking the law at the time of his? Was Rondo in a video in which he declared, "I knew it! They're gonna trade me to Sacramento!" when the Celtics drafted Marcus Smart? 

Rondo was held in check, for the most part, in Boston, and he is credited by many players (Bradley for one) for helping instill a professional work ethic into the young guys. Also, credit to Stevens for making a limited Rondo look/play the best he could before the trade.

(I'm assuming that you asked that rhetorical question to add to your argument that Houston should have gotten more for Lawson than Boston got for Rondo.)

[Boris Badenov]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Considering driving under the influence not only endangers the drivers life, but recklessly endangers the lives of other people on the roads, I'm gonna go with the DUIs.

I can't remember the last time an ACL tear claimed the life of an innocent person.

I didn't mean "worse" from a moral perspective, that should be obvious.

[Boris Badenov]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Alcoholism has led to people being banned from the NBA for life. Moodiness leads to trades and lower salaries, as does decreased athleticism.

Trust me, the two DUIs were significantly worse. Especially since they were his third (or even fourth) DUIs total.

Do you think the Rockets will get less out of Lawson than the Mavs got out of Rondo - the guy they had for half a season of utter mediocrity then benched in the playoffs, before cutting him loose in free agency with nothing in return?

Completely depends on Lawson.

Perhaps, but Rondo was a net negative on the Mavs and they gave up Crowder, a first rounder and three second rounders for him. Lawson will have to be even more of a negative given how much more meager the return was for Denver.

[GetLucky]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Considering driving under the influence not only endangers the drivers life, but recklessly endangers the lives of other people on the roads, I'm gonna go with the DUIs.

I can't remember the last time an ACL tear claimed the life of an innocent person.

I didn't mean "worse" from a moral perspective, that should be obvious.

In my opinion, issues that transcend basketball performance are bigger issues to basketball teams, who need to watch their image and make sure their multimillion-dollar employees are performing to the best of their ability in as many games as possible. Sure, loss of athleticism is bad on the court, but alcoholism is worse in all other facets. A less-athletic player being paid on the court is better than a suspended player who is taking up a roster spot. Lawson didn't play the Celtics because he was caught drunk driving at something like 2am. What if he hadn't been caught? Would you rather have a half-hearted (allegedly) Rondo or a hung-over Lawson? Alcoholism can affect both performance on the court and the ability to be on it in the first place.   

[Boris Badenov]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Considering driving under the influence not only endangers the drivers life, but recklessly endangers the lives of other people on the roads, I'm gonna go with the DUIs.

I can't remember the last time an ACL tear claimed the life of an innocent person.

I didn't mean "worse" from a moral perspective, that should be obvious.

In my opinion, issues that transcend basketball performance are bigger issues to basketball teams, who need to watch their image and make sure their multimillion-dollar employees are performing to the best of their ability in as many games as possible. Sure, loss of athleticism is bad on the court, but alcoholism is worse in all other facets. A less-athletic player being paid on the court is better than a suspended player who is taking up a roster spot. Lawson didn't play the Celtics because he was caught drunk driving at something like 2am. What if he hadn't been caught? Would you rather have a half-hearted (allegedly) Rondo or a hung-over Lawson? Alcoholism can affect both performance on the court and the ability to be on it in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying the risks with Lawson. I'm just saying that Rondo had risks too - which were completely borne out in the worst possible way, for the record - and the C's got a much better return. It's more a compliment to Danny that anything else.

[GetLucky]

Rondo didn't have two DUIs in a six-month span, though. That's what largely killed Lawson's value. Ainge wouldn't have done much better if he had Lawson in the same situation and was trying to trade him.

Rondo had his own issues though - a dubious ACL surgery recovery, and seemingly half-hearted effort on the court.

Not sure which is worse.

Considering driving under the influence not only endangers the drivers life, but recklessly endangers the lives of other people on the roads, I'm gonna go with the DUIs.

I can't remember the last time an ACL tear claimed the life of an innocent person.

I didn't mean "worse" from a moral perspective, that should be obvious.

In my opinion, issues that transcend basketball performance are bigger issues to basketball teams, who need to watch their image and make sure their multimillion-dollar employees are performing to the best of their ability in as many games as possible. Sure, loss of athleticism is bad on the court, but alcoholism is worse in all other facets. A less-athletic player being paid on the court is better than a suspended player who is taking up a roster spot. Lawson didn't play the Celtics because he was caught drunk driving at something like 2am. What if he hadn't been caught? Would you rather have a half-hearted (allegedly) Rondo or a hung-over Lawson? Alcoholism can affect both performance on the court and the ability to be on it in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying the risks with Lawson. I'm just saying that Rondo had risks too - which were completely borne out in the worst possible way, for the record - and the C's got a much better return. It's more a compliment to Danny that anything else.

Oh, yeah. I completely agree with you in that regard. I think it's all context. Rondo's risks were mostly hidden or downplayed (credit to Ainge and Stevens) in Boston. Lawson's been shopped hard by the Nugget's front office for months, and this alcohol issue is at the forefront of everyone's minds right now. There's no plausible deniability ("I didn't KNOW he would drink too much! He's never done it before!") like there was with Rondo's issues ("We didn't KNOW he'd be an awful fit that didn't like our coach! He's argued with people in Boston, but that was awhile ago and with different people!").