Author Topic: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari  (Read 5343 times)

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Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« on: July 13, 2015, 03:08:38 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Extend-and-trade deals are very rare for a variety of reasons, but what of the following deal:

Denver gets Sullinger, Turner, and Young, plus pick(s).
Boston gets Gallinari.

As a result of moving the above three players, and having not yet completed the David Lee trade and the Crowder signing, the C's would have a few million in excess of Gallo's current contract.  If they keep a little room ($1.1 million) to sign Mickey and Holmes to deals of longer than two years, they could renegotiate Gallo's salary this year, and give him $14.5 mil this season instead of the $11.5 million he is owed, and then add two years with 4.5% raises off the new contract.  His salaries would be $14.5, $15.1, and $15.8 million.  This would be like he signed a 2-year, $34 million extension, but some of the money owed in future years could be paid this year instead.

This would allow Gallo to re-enter free agency in his 20s, but still pick up some added security at a reasonable rate after a couple of injury-plagued seasons.

Is two years, $34 mil a decent contract for Gallo, especially given the forthcoming cap spike?  (We could give him up to $37 million if we signed Mickey and/or Holmes to deals of only two years in length, but that could be disappointing for both players, especially Mickey, in two years' time.). If so, what picks would be needed for Denver?  I'd like to give only the Minny pick, but I'm not certain if I've got my green goggles on.  I do think all three players going to Denver could be useful in their own way.  I also think Gallo is exactly the type of player Stevens would want

Thoughts?.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2015, 03:40:42 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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I'm not trading Sullinger straight up for Danilo, let alone in a package that includes picks and youth to go along with him.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 03:47:54 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I'm not trading Sullinger straight up for Danilo, let alone in a package that includes picks and youth to go along with him.

We have very different opinions on Sully and Gallo then.  Sully rebounds better than Gallo.  That's about it. 

If it were Olynyk instead of Sully, do you change your tune?  Those two are interchangeable for me, although obviously some here are very solidly in one camp or the other.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2015, 03:59:21 PM »

Offline jbpats

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Extend-and-trade deals are very rare for a variety of reasons, but what of the following deal:

Denver gets Sullinger, Turner, and Young, plus pick(s).
Boston gets Gallinari.

As a result of moving the above three players, and having not yet completed the David Lee trade and the Crowder signing, the C's would have a few million in excess of Gallo's current contract.  If they keep a little room ($1.1 million) to sign Mickey and Holmes to deals of longer than two years, they could renegotiate Gallo's salary this year, and give him $14.5 mil this season instead of the $11.5 million he is owed, and then add two years with 4.5% raises off the new contract.  His salaries would be $14.5, $15.1, and $15.8 million.  This would be like he signed a 2-year, $34 million extension, but some of the money owed in future years could be paid this year instead.

This would allow Gallo to re-enter free agency in his 20s, but still pick up some added security at a reasonable rate after a couple of injury-plagued seasons.

Is two years, $34 mil a decent contract for Gallo, especially given the forthcoming cap spike?  (We could give him up to $37 million if we signed Mickey and/or Holmes to deals of only two years in length, but that could be disappointing for both players, especially Mickey, in two years' time.). If so, what picks would be needed for Denver?  I'd like to give only the Minny pick, but I'm not certain if I've got my green goggles on.  I do think all three players going to Denver could be useful in their own way.  I also think Gallo is exactly the type of player Stevens would want

Thoughts?.

I think this actually makes sense, only hiccup would be Gallo's hesitation, seeing those crazy contracts put out there this year and knowing next years FA class is terrible he might be looking for a max deal.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2015, 04:03:43 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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I'm not trading Sullinger straight up for Danilo, let alone in a package that includes picks and youth to go along with him.

We have very different opinions on Sully and Gallo then.  Sully rebounds better than Gallo.  That's about it. 

If it were Olynyk instead of Sully, do you change your tune?  Those two are interchangeable for me, although obviously some here are very solidly in one camp or the other.

Definitely. Not saying I would do this trade, but yes I would include Olynyk if needed instead of Sullinger.

I'll just say this, I need to be wowed by our return for me to consider moving Sullinger. I think he's very good right now, and I think he'll be even better going forward. More importantly, when it counts, when you need players in the playoffs, he's someone you can count on. Olynyk, not so much even when his shot is falling.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2015, 04:12:06 PM »

Offline SouthernCeltic

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At this point, it's obvious that either Olynyk or Sullinger has to go for the roster to work.  We have too many players of the same size and skill set.  As much as I like Sully, I think Olynyk's upside is much greater.  With so many bigs, something has to give.  I'm hesitant to give up too much for Gallo, because he will get hurt again and miss games, but I'm also willing to roll the dice on trading Sully for a player like Gallo.  For the record, I'd throw Young into almost any trade before he loses any more value.  He's not panning out.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 04:14:56 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I'm not trading Sullinger straight up for Danilo, let alone in a package that includes picks and youth to go along with him.

We have very different opinions on Sully and Gallo then.  Sully rebounds better than Gallo.  That's about it. 

If it were Olynyk instead of Sully, do you change your tune?  Those two are interchangeable for me, although obviously some here are very solidly in one camp or the other.

Definitely. Not saying I would do this trade, but yes I would include Olynyk if needed instead of Sullinger.

I'll just say this, I need to be wowed by our return for me to consider moving Sullinger. I think he's very good right now, and I think he'll be even better going forward. More importantly, when it counts, when you need players in the playoffs, he's someone you can count on. Olynyk, not so much even when his shot is falling.

The ship hasn't sailed on Sully, but he's three years into his career still trying to figure out what shape he needs to be in as a professional.  He's in the last year of his rookie deal, and the C's really can't talk extension with him.  He's quite talented, I agree.  But he's really a player who isn't guaranteed to be around next season even if not traded.  If you can't reliably stay on the court, especially by the end of the season, can you really be a key component of a team?

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2015, 04:17:09 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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At this point, it's obvious that either Olynyk or Sullinger has to go for the roster to work.  We have too many players of the same size and skill set.  As much as I like Sully, I think Olynyk's upside is much greater.  With so many bigs, something has to give.  I'm hesitant to give up too much for Gallo, because he will get hurt again and miss games, but I'm also willing to roll the dice on trading Sully for a player like Gallo.  For the record, I'd throw Young into almost any trade before he loses any more value.  He's not panning out.

His upside is much greater and if it's even remotely close, you keep the guy that wasn't damaged goods in the draft.  Olynyk's bill of health is a lot cleaner than Sullinger's.

For the record, you just don't throw out a 19 year old and say 'he's not panning out'.  Ainge obviously drafted this young kid to develop him, not just throw him out after one year.  The guy is a sophmore in college, and would've been a top pick in this years draft or next years, depending on when he left.  Instead, you got him with a mid round pick last year.  Keep the development going.  Plenty of time left.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2015, 05:21:27 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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His upside is much greater and if it's even remotely close, you keep the guy that wasn't damaged goods in the draft.  Olynyk's bill of health is a lot cleaner than Sullinger's

Olynyk fits CBS system better.   Sully does not play D and he does not and his ability to spread anything but butter is in question with his three point shooting.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2015, 05:56:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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In reading a bit more, I've learned that you can't renegotiate existing contracts as part of extend-and-trade deals.  I think this is a pity, but it means this post is somewhat moot.  Still a fan of acquiring Gallo, but we can't give him a pay bump prior to an extension as part of a deal.  Sad. :(

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 06:07:58 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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He is SLOW and hobbles like Dirk and can't hit a bull in tail......no body wants him .....

He is not the guy you dreamed of on the Knicks years ago.

He'll slow the offense down way way to much .

Bad bad choice for this team....

Exactly what CBS ..does not want ......

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 06:10:13 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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I'm not trading Sullinger straight up for Danilo, let alone in a package that includes picks and youth to go along with him.

We have very different opinions on Sully and Gallo then.  Sully rebounds better than Gallo.  That's about it. 

If it were Olynyk instead of Sully, do you change your tune?  Those two are interchangeable for me, although obviously some here are very solidly in one camp or the other.

Definitely. Not saying I would do this trade, but yes I would include Olynyk if needed instead of Sullinger.

I'll just say this, I need to be wowed by our return for me to consider moving Sullinger. I think he's very good right now, and I think he'll be even better going forward. More importantly, when it counts, when you need players in the playoffs, he's someone you can count on. Olynyk, not so much even when his shot is falling.

The ship hasn't sailed on Sully, but he's three years into his career still trying to figure out what shape he needs to be in as a professional.  He's in the last year of his rookie deal, and the C's really can't talk extension with him.  He's quite talented, I agree.  But he's really a player who isn't guaranteed to be around next season even if not traded.  If you can't reliably stay on the court, especially by the end of the season, can you really be a key component of a team?

Three years into his career, yet a year younger than Olynyk... one rookie season that was cut short due to the back surgery, which is why he dropped to us in the first place.

As for final year of his contract, I'm willing to risk it to see how it turns out. If he's not worth keeping after that, I have no problem moving on. But difference with Olynyk is that I just don't see Olynyk being more than what he currently is, and that's not enough for me.

I mean, you recall the 1st game of the playoffs in which Olynyk was dominating offensively right? What did we do? We moved him to our starting unit in the 2nd half and we got destroyed because of it to the point that Olynyk's minutes as the series progressed diminished because when rebounding and toughness becomes that much of a factor in the playoffs, to say nothing of defense, he's found lacking.

And who did Stevens turned to? The supposed player Stevens has soured on, a player who was completely rusty given he had just returned from a stress fracture on his foot... to the point that he became our best performer out of all our bigs on both sides of the floor. And I'm willing to be a bit more patient to see if we can capitalize on that. He has the skills, we'll have to see if he can keep the focus.

That has been his main problem. Focus. A lot has been said about his poor defense, but I think it's more of problem of focus than lack of ability. I know what I saw from him in his rookie season, after a poor start defensively, he became extremely dependable off the bench defensively to the point that through a stretch of 2 months or so he, if not mistaken, was carrying the best +/- of our team and that team featured the +/- king in Garnett.

So he's had some setbacks healthwise, and a poor start to the season last year (with Rondo and Green rocking the boat a bit when we were struggling) and he didn't respond well to that. I, more than anyone, realize that character flaw... it's been a problem. But he's a young dude still, those are immaturity aspects which can be cleaned up, and it seems like he's taken step in that direction with him going to the John Lucas' Camp.  At the same time, I saw Sullinger applying himself after he came back from his injury showing some things defensively of that which I really liked in his rookie season, and I'm banking on that... and through all of this he's been productive player, even if not to the point we want him to be. All while trying to extend his range with a lack of success so far (if you have him solely shooting mid-range jumpers at the rate he's capable of hitting, I think people would rethink a lot of how they feel about him).

So I rather take a risk on the chance that Sullinger can become the player we hope he can become, than keeping Olynyk who I think has hit his ceiling and found lacking when it matters (even when he's playing well).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 06:15:48 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2015, 06:11:53 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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His upside is much greater and if it's even remotely close, you keep the guy that wasn't damaged goods in the draft.  Olynyk's bill of health is a lot cleaner than Sullinger's

Olynyk fits CBS system better.   Sully does not play D and he does not and his ability to spread anything but butter is in question with his three point shooting.

Olynyk, Stevens' binky, fits so much better that he found himself on the bench after a reactionary starting role in the 2nd half of the first game of the playoffs (in which he was actually playing well)... all to lean on a rusty Sullinger, particularly for rebounding and DEFENSIVE purposes in the playoffs, believe it or not.

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2015, 06:12:48 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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At this point, it's obvious that either Olynyk or Sullinger has to go for the roster to work.  We have too many players of the same size and skill set.  As much as I like Sully, I think Olynyk's upside is much greater.  With so many bigs, something has to give.  I'm hesitant to give up too much for Gallo, because he will get hurt again and miss games, but I'm also willing to roll the dice on trading Sully for a player like Gallo.  For the record, I'd throw Young into almost any trade before he loses any more value.  He's not panning out.

His upside is much greater and if it's even remotely close, you keep the guy that wasn't damaged goods in the draft.  Olynyk's bill of health is a lot cleaner than Sullinger's.

For the record, you just don't throw out a 19 year old and say 'he's not panning out'.  Ainge obviously drafted this young kid to develop him, not just throw him out after one year.  The guy is a sophmore in college, and would've been a top pick in this years draft or next years, depending on when he left.  Instead, you got him with a mid round pick last year.  Keep the development going.  Plenty of time left.

Olynyk's bill of health is so much cleaner than Sullinger than in the past two seasons he played 3 more games the Sullinger, he's AWESOME HEALTHY!

Re: Extend-and-trade idea for Gallinari
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2015, 06:12:50 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He is SLOW and hobbles like Dirk and can't hit a bull in tail......no body wants him .....

He is not the guy you dreamed of on the Knicks years ago.

He'll slow the offense down way way to much .

Bad bad choice for this team....

Exactly what CBS ..does not want .....

Yeah CBS never probably talks to Ainge who made a call about him.....