Deron Williams negotiating release to play with Dallas, consequences for Celtics' picks [Merged]

[sofutomygaha]

Anyone else here think Jarrett Jack is about as good as Deron Williams?

[SHAQATTACK]

Anyone else here think Jarrett Jack is about as good as Deron Williams?

I theory not....DWill is the Ferrari .......but he stays broken ....so what good is he ?

In practical matters yes ......Jacks is worth more .....shows up, plays hard and doesn't whine.

[celticsclay]

Anyone else here think Jarrett Jack is about as good as Deron Williams?

Even if that is true.. it is not an either or. So it is Deron Williams better than a 35 year old Blake, Shane Larkin or Darius Morris (if he makes the team). That is a pretty easy question to answer imo

[celticsfan8591]

If Williams gets bought out, he still counts towards the Nets' cap doesn't he?  The only benefit for the Nets is that they only have to pay him whatever they agree to instead of the full contract, right?  They said they don't want to use the stretch provision, so they'd still on the hook for ~21 million dollars the next two years.

It's a negotiation. Usually the player will accept less money in exchange for his freedom.

It's a negotiation in terms of actual money paid to the player, but I believe the entire amount of the original contract still counts against the cap regardless. Sounds like it doesn't matter either way because the Nets want to save money and wouldn't use the hypothetical cap space anyway.

I posted something a page or two back on this - according to the cap FAQ, the buyout amount is what counts against the cap, stretched over the number of years remaining on the contract. (Minus any new salary paid by another team.)

I had actually thought the original contract amount was what counted too. I think that's true if a player is waived outright.

Do you mind posting the part you're referring to?  The only thing I found was this:

"Any guaranteed salary still owed to the player as the result of a buyout continues to be included in team salary, just as with any waived player. "

The language isn't super clear, but since they liken the situation to any other waived player, I interpreted it as "for salary cap purposes, the team must use the player's original cap figure"

[rickyfan3.0...]

It eviscerates the Nets. It makes the Mavs good enough to be near the playoffs, but he'll end up missing 30 games so they'll finish #10 in the West.

PERFECT storm.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I need some help.

If a player gets bought out, his cap hit remains to the team for that year, right?

[mef730]

If Williams gets bought out, he still counts towards the Nets' cap doesn't he?  The only benefit for the Nets is that they only have to pay him whatever they agree to instead of the full contract, right?  They said they don't want to use the stretch provision, so they'd still on the hook for ~21 million dollars the next two years.

It's a negotiation. Usually the player will accept less money in exchange for his freedom.

It's a negotiation in terms of actual money paid to the player, but I believe the entire amount of the original contract still counts against the cap regardless. Sounds like it doesn't matter either way because the Nets want to save money and wouldn't use the hypothetical cap space anyway.

I posted something a page or two back on this - according to the cap FAQ, the buyout amount is what counts against the cap, stretched over the number of years remaining on the contract. (Minus any new salary paid by another team.)

I had actually thought the original contract amount was what counted too. I think that's true if a player is waived outright.

Do you mind posting the part you're referring to?  The only thing I found was this:

"Any guaranteed salary still owed to the player as the result of a buyout continues to be included in team salary, just as with any waived player. "

The language isn't super clear, but since they liken the situation to any other waived player, I interpreted it as "for salary cap purposes, the team must use the player's original cap figure"

Does the new "buyout" number become the guaranteed salary? In other words, If they buy him out for $10m, that becomes the cap hold.

BTW, looks like Williams has an early termination clause so, in theory, Brooklyn could hold him for a year and hope he uses the ETO to join Dallas next year.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/brooklyn-nets-team-salary/#

Mike

[mef730]

I need some help.

If a player gets bought out, his cap hit remains to the team for that year, right?

The $22 million question. I swear, if the DWill situation weren't about to come to a head, I'd suggest that we all kick in $20 and hire a capologist.

Mike

[Monkhouse]

I need some help.

If a player gets bought out, his cap hit remains to the team for that year, right?

Correct.

Any guaranteed salary still owed to the player as the result of a buyout continues to be included in team salary, just as with any waived player.

And for the duration of 3 years most likely, depending on how the quid pro and obligations turn out to be.

The agreed-upon buy-out amount (see question number 62) is included in the team salary instead of the salary called for in the contract. If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary. For example, say a player had three seasons remaining on his contract, with salaries of $10 million, $11 million and $12 million. The player and team agree to a buyout of $15 million. The $15 million is therefore charged to the team salary over the three seasons. Since the original contract had $33 million left to be paid, and $10 million is 30.3% of $33 million, 30.3% of the $15 million buyout, or $4.545 million, is included in the team salary in the first season following the buyout. Likewise, 33.33% of $15 million, or $5 million, is included in the team salary in the second season, and 36.36% of $15 million, or $5.455 million, is included in the team salary in the third season.

[get_banners]

I need some help.

If a player gets bought out, his cap hit remains to the team for that year, right?

Correct.

Any guaranteed salary still owed to the player as the result of a buyout continues to be included in team salary, just as with any waived player.

And for the duration of 3 years most likely, depending on how the quid pro and obligations turn out to be.

The agreed-upon buy-out amount (see question number 62) is included in the team salary instead of the salary called for in the contract. If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary. For example, say a player had three seasons remaining on his contract, with salaries of $10 million, $11 million and $12 million. The player and team agree to a buyout of $15 million. The $15 million is therefore charged to the team salary over the three seasons. Since the original contract had $33 million left to be paid, and $10 million is 30.3% of $33 million, 30.3% of the $15 million buyout, or $4.545 million, is included in the team salary in the first season following the buyout. Likewise, 33.33% of $15 million, or $5 million, is included in the team salary in the second season, and 36.36% of $15 million, or $5.455 million, is included in the team salary in the third season.

This sounds right. I think we carried Rasheed on our cap for the full contract (though we weren't paying him). Maybe the terms are slightly different, but I can't imagine the Nets get to just erase DWill from their cap. This is a way for them to pay him less money, but its not like they just get all the space to sign a max player next year.

[mef730]

So let's say that they buyout DWill at 50%. They'll be on the hook for $11m for each of the next two years, assuming $22m average salary. The second year is ETO, but I'll assume that that doesn't make a difference.

Per Basketball Insiders, they're on the hook for $39m in guaranteed, $75m total. Assume we cut $11m of DWill off that last number, we're down to $64m. True, much of that isn't guaranteed, but they still need 12 players and most of those contracts are small numbers. Thus, if the cap next year is $90m, and they have to spend $64 already, they'll only have $26m in cap room for 2016-17. Not a huge amount.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/brooklyn-nets-team-salary/#

Mike

[Ilikesports17]

Anyone else here think Jarrett Jack is about as good as Deron Williams?

Even if that is true.. it is not an either or. So it is Deron Williams better than a 35 year old Blake, Shane Larkin or Darius Morris (if he makes the team). That is a pretty easy question to answer imo

makes a team with depth issues even less deep.

It just adds another player(Jarret Jack) to the list of players they cant afford to see injured.
unfortunately for us Jack has been remarkably healthy throughout his career with the exception of the 11-12 season. He is 31 so their lineup will presumably be
Jack 31
Bogdanovich 26
Johnson 34
Young 27
Lopez 27

its not as ancient as I thought but Lopez is an old old 27

[max215]

Anyone else here think Jarrett Jack is about as good as Deron Williams?

Even if that is true.. it is not an either or. So it is Deron Williams better than a 35 year old Blake, Shane Larkin or Darius Morris (if he makes the team). That is a pretty easy question to answer imo

makes a team with depth issues even less deep.

It just adds another player(Jarret Jack) to the list of players they cant afford to see injured.
unfortunately for us Jack has been remarkably healthy throughout his career with the exception of the 11-12 season. He is 31 so their lineup will presumably be
Jack 31
Bogdanovich 26
Johnson 34
Young 27
Lopez 27

its not as ancient as I thought but Lopez is an old old 27

When you actually see the Nets lineup you realize that if Lopez goes down with a season-ending injury early, that pick is easily top 5.

[rondohondo]

Anyone else here think Jarrett Jack is about as good as Deron Williams?

Even if that is true.. it is not an either or. So it is Deron Williams better than a 35 year old Blake, Shane Larkin or Darius Morris (if he makes the team). That is a pretty easy question to answer imo

makes a team with depth issues even less deep.

It just adds another player(Jarret Jack) to the list of players they cant afford to see injured.
unfortunately for us Jack has been remarkably healthy throughout his career with the exception of the 11-12 season. He is 31 so their lineup will presumably be
Jack 31
Bogdanovich 26
Johnson 34
Young 27
Lopez 27

its not as ancient as I thought but Lopez is an old old 27

sloth can take care of that ....

[get_banners]

Anyone else here think Jarrett Jack is about as good as Deron Williams?

Even if that is true.. it is not an either or. So it is Deron Williams better than a 35 year old Blake, Shane Larkin or Darius Morris (if he makes the team). That is a pretty easy question to answer imo

makes a team with depth issues even less deep.

It just adds another player(Jarret Jack) to the list of players they cant afford to see injured.
unfortunately for us Jack has been remarkably healthy throughout his career with the exception of the 11-12 season. He is 31 so their lineup will presumably be
Jack 31
Bogdanovich 26
Johnson 34
Young 27
Lopez 27

its not as ancient as I thought but Lopez is an old old 27

When you actually see the Nets lineup you realize that if Lopez goes down with a season-ending injury early, that pick is easily top 5.

If Lopez is healthy and goes full-tilt all season long (which is not going to happen), they're still a bottom 8 team. Factor in his usual injuries and the possibility of Johnson going to Cleveland and you have the real possibility that the pick becomes top 2-3.