Author Topic: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson  (Read 10459 times)

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Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2015, 12:16:29 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I don't like the packages but like the players you are hoping to trade for.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2015, 01:43:59 PM »

Offline Granath

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must be me but I think both of those proposals are gross overpayments.  I find Barnes and Henson to both be very overrated here

The first one is a gross overpayment and the other is an epic under-payment.

Barnes
Why would we want to give up a 50-50 chance at a lottery pick plus Olynyk for a guy who is 23 years old, 6'8", 210 pounds and per 36s 13/7/2 when we already have a 25 year old guy who plays the same position who is 6'7", 240 and per 36s 13.5/6.5/2 and is probably better defensively? Shouldn't the team see what they have in the guy they just signed for 5/$35m before making a trade for someone at the same position who may not even be appreciably better?

Henson
The Bucks are pursuing a contract extension with Henson and appear to view him as part of their core. There's no way that the first deal flies ever - it's not even reasonable. The second deal requires the Bucks to give up Henson and their 1st round pick from this year. They laugh and hang up the phone on that deal too.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2015, 02:59:46 PM »

Offline YoungOne87

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the nets pick wont be worth much till you can be sure where the will land.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2015, 07:13:27 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Read reports of mutual interest in an extension between Barnes and GS. He's on the books for ~3 mil this year, and supposedly talks are in the 10-12 mil/yr range. Pretty great deal for GS, and not bad for Barnes if long-term, as well.

Barnes was solid in postseason and complements their franchise backcourt well. Believe Iggy's Finals performance speaks more to his career as a very good NBA player and less to Barnes' shortcomings. Iggy has been excellent for a long time, and his greatest single attribute was exactly what was needed against CLE - right place, right time. He's also aging though, and Barnes is their future. His floor, particularly on a team like ours, is Jeff Green. He is worth a lot more than one would think to GS, so a parting of ways would surprise me.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 07:34:47 PM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2015, 08:30:01 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Why would we want to give up a 50-50 chance at a lottery pick plus Olynyk for a guy who is 23 years old, 6'8", 210 pounds and per 36s 13/7/2 when we already have a 25 year old guy who plays the same position who is 6'7", 240 and per 36s 13.5/6.5/2 and is probably better defensively? Shouldn't the team see what they have in the guy they just signed for 5/$35m before making a trade for someone at the same position who may not even be appreciably better?

Two words:
* Shooting
* Potential

Harrison Barnes is only 23 years old and he has the perfect physical attributes for an NBA swingman (6'8", 210 lbs, 6'11" wingspan, elite athleticism), so his potential is sky high.  He's already capable of contributing on offensive and on defense, and he has shot 44% from the field and 37% from three for his career so far (48% and 40% this year).

Crowder is 25 years old and has decent physical attributes an NBA swingman (good size, length and strength, but merely 'above average' athleticism).  He's proven he have an impact defensively, but his lack of explosive athleticism combined with his lack of a jump shot (career averages of 41% FG and 31% 3PT) leave question marks about his ability to be an impact player offensively. 

While Crowder (to the eye test) seems to be a great defensive player, the advanced statistics last year suggest that Barns actually had a bigger defensive impact for the Warriors (+1.23 DRPM) than Crowder did for the Celtics (-1.07 DRPM). 

This team is desperate right now for a starting caliber SF who can (at the very least) defend multiple positions and can stretch the floor with his outside shot.  Currently the closest thing we have to that is Jerebko, who may not be good enough to start.  This puts a lot of pressure on our guards because as long as Crowder or Turner is out there on the floor, we NEED two guards who can shoot the three. 

Barnes' ability to stretch the floor alone makes him a big upgrade over Crowder - combine that with the huge amount of potential (he reminds me a LOT of Paul George before he exploded) and it's well worth the gamble.

He'd immediately be the best SF on our roster, and possibly also the highest upside player on our roster.

I like Olynyk a lot and I'd hate to trade him out, but I would give up Olynyk and that pick for Barnes.  I think Barnes probably has more potential than Olynyk and that pick combined.     

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2015, 08:37:47 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The Henson idea I don't think is happening.

Henson is a pretty mobile, he's big time shot blocker so (at least defensively) he's a very nice compliment for Monroe. 

Offensively he's not such a good match (since he has no outside shot) but I get the feeling Monroe's jumper is going to improve anyway, so that's not a huge concern for me if I'm Milwaukee.

I think the Bucks will be looking at Henson and Monroe as their frontcourt of the future, and i doubt either is available right now.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2015, 11:08:42 PM »

Offline Geo123

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Neither Barnes or Henson are going anywhere.  Both of their teams want to keep them so unless you grossly over pay then they would have no interest.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2015, 11:24:14 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Neither Barnes or Henson are going anywhere.  Both of their teams want to keep them so unless you grossly over pay then they would have no interest.

I agree on Barnes, disagree on Henson.  He couldnt start ahead of Pachulia.  Now they've signed Monroe -- Henson is a bench player.  Useful, but someone Milwaukee could move if he wants more than they want to pay.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 11:52:26 PM by saltlover »

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2015, 06:10:32 PM »

Offline Geo123

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Neither Barnes or Henson are going anywhere.  Both of their teams want to keep them so unless you grossly over pay then they would have no interest.

I agree on Barnes, disagree on Henson.  He couldnt start ahead of Pachulia.  Now they've signed Monroe -- Henson is a bench player.  Useful, but someone Milwaukee could move if he wants more than they want to pay.
As has been stated before Monroe and Henson are 2 different players.  Henson provides the defensive presence that Monroe doesn't.  Also Henson didn't even start last year when they didn't have Monroe.  I still stand by the statement that he's good and cheap and won't be traded unless the Bucks are blown away.  There is no reason whatsoever for the Bucks to trade him.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2015, 06:37:11 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Neither Barnes or Henson are going anywhere.  Both of their teams want to keep them so unless you grossly over pay then they would have no interest.

I agree on Barnes, disagree on Henson.  He couldnt start ahead of Pachulia.  Now they've signed Monroe -- Henson is a bench player.  Useful, but someone Milwaukee could move if he wants more than they want to pay.
As has been stated before Monroe and Henson are 2 different players.  Henson provides the defensive presence that Monroe doesn't.  Also Henson didn't even start last year when they didn't have Monroe.  I still stand by the statement that he's good and cheap and won't be traded unless the Bucks are blown away.  There is no reason whatsoever for the Bucks to trade him.

He's useful, but if the Bucks don't feel he's the best investment in long-term resources, he can be moved.  I didn't say he'd be cheap.  I'm just saying that unlike Barnes, who isn't going anywhere, you're talking about a soon-to-be 25 year-old reserve who logged under 20 minutes per game last season, despite his ridiculous number of blocks.  He's got warts, and if he looks like he's getting paid as if he doesn't have them, it could make sense for Mikwaukee to go a different direction.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2015, 07:30:22 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Harrison Barnes seems like the most promising young wing player that the Celts could plausibly target via trade, but it seems pretty unlikely that he's gonna go anywhere anytime soon.

Blame the rising cap.   Makes it affordable for a lot of top teams to keep players they might otherwise have to lose.  Instead, the Warriors will just drop Bogut, and probably Iggy too, eventually.

Beyond Barnes, it's hard to find a really promising wing player who seems likely to change teams anytime soon.  Probably Chandler Parsons and Demar Derozan are the best proven options.

Celts will probably have to find a quality wing or two in the draft.
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Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2015, 07:46:47 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Well we all know that the celtics worst positions are at the small forward and at center. I think two reasonable options are Harrison Barnes and John Henson. Both are still young and talented, and probably wont needed to be traded at a very expensive price.
The case for Barnes:
Out of high school Barnes was the number 2 player in his class but was given some extremely high  expectations to live up to. So far Barnes has not been the dynamic scorer that people thought that he would be, but it has been hard for him to get many touches with klay thompson, curry, green, and igoudala. With all of that, Barnes has still proven to be a decent shooter, a great finisher, and an excellent defender. He also won't need to be traded at a huge price.
The Trade
Celtics receive: Harrison Barnes, James-Michael-Mcadoo
Warriors receive: Kelly Olynyk, Nets 2016 first round pick,
The warriors just traded away their best backup big man and now need another one. Kelly Olynyk is probably going to be traded someday with the Celtics crowded frontcourt. Also Evan Turner probably won't last as a starting small forward anyways. Mcadoo is a very raw and athletic scorer and is a decent cheap alternative from Olynyk. For the Warriors, they would be willing to trade away Barnes because first, Igoudala is really starting to get into his groove, and it looks like he'll be their starter next season.

The case for John Henson:
Earlier this year, a trade for Henson seemed very hard to do because he still had a chance to start. But now with Greg Monroe, Zaza, and Plumlee, it seems like the Bucks can afford to give up Henson for some other assets. Henson is a very underrated rim protector and is a good scorer and rebounder. While only playing 18 minutes a game he's managed to average 8 pts, 5 boards and 2 blocks a game while having a 18.08 PER.
Three Team Trade
Celtics receive: John Henson, KJ Mcdaniels (S&T)
Bucks receive: Evan Turner, Jonas Jerekbo, 2017 76ers 2nd round pick
Rockets receive: Tyler Ennis, 2017 Heat 2nd round pick
Trade (option 2)
Celtics receive: John Henson, Rashad Vaughn
Bucks receive, Evan Turner, Jonas Jerekbo, 2016 Nets 1st round pick, 2016 Heat 2nd round pick

In the first trade, the celtics could do a sign and trade for KJ who is an athletic small forward with a lot of potential. Unfortunately for him and the Rockets, he rarely got any playing time and that may lead to him getting traded. With MCW, Bayless, and Vasquez, Tyler Ennis is destined to be traded and the Rockets have always needed a point guard for a while. Evan Turner could add some guard and forward depth for the Jabari Parker and GA.  Jerekbo is a stretch four who is a good defender and has a decent contract. In option two, Vaughn is a decent scorer, but was picked 17th and the Nets 1st round pick will probably make it into the lottery so it's probably of more value.

The Lineup
Smart/Thomas/Rozier
Bradley/Young/Hunter/Vaugh
Barnes/Crowder/KJ Mcadniels
Sullinger/Lee/Mickey
Henson/Johnson/Zeller

the Nets 2016 pick is worth more than both of those players never mind packaging it with other players. 

not a fan of either in terms of projecting them to be more than role players.  we had a better Barnes in Jeff Green and a lot of people here wanted to get rid of him.  Barnes would get run out of town even faster

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2015, 09:11:09 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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You stand a much better chance of drafting another Harrison Barnes or John Henson (or worse) with that Nets pick than someone better than those two.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2015, 09:40:40 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Neither Barnes or Henson are going anywhere.  Both of their teams want to keep them so unless you grossly over pay then they would have no interest.

I agree on Barnes, disagree on Henson.  He couldnt start ahead of Pachulia.  Now they've signed Monroe -- Henson is a bench player.  Useful, but someone Milwaukee could move if he wants more than they want to pay.
As has been stated before Monroe and Henson are 2 different players.  Henson provides the defensive presence that Monroe doesn't.  Also Henson didn't even start last year when they didn't have Monroe.  I still stand by the statement that he's good and cheap and won't be traded unless the Bucks are blown away.  There is no reason whatsoever for the Bucks to trade him.

I like Henson and I was all over the idea of trading for him last year, but he's a very specialized role player. They certainly wouldn't need to be "blown away" to trade him. If we offered them our own 1st this year for him, that might be enough. Add Zeller and it's done.

My issue with him there is that he's a very athletic defensive specialist that struggles against stronger 5's and has little to no offensive game. Monroe is a guy that really needs to play next to a plus defender to be most effective, but that plus defender really needs to be at least an automatic mid-range shooter. If you use Henson to cover Monroe's deficiencies on D they'll clog the paint so much it will take away Monroe's biggest strength in low-post scoring. And they don't exactly space the floor that well to begin with. A team with MCW, Giannis, Henson and Monroe all playing big minutes is gonna struggle in that department

Part of the reason I'm not as sold on them right now as a lot of other people, at least in the present. Amir Johnson would've been a great fit for them. And besides, now that we have Johnson and Mickey I don't think I'd be very interested in giving up much for Henson anyway.

Re: Trade Ideas: Harrison Barnes and John Henson
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2015, 10:05:32 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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You stand a much better chance of drafting another Harrison Barnes or John Henson (or worse) with that Nets pick than someone better than those two.
The Nets pick will be top 5.  I'd be extremely disappointed if the player we got at that slot was only as good as either of those players. 

Barnes is an OK starter.  He's not at even Jeff Green's level and I'd honestly be surprised if he ever got there. 

Henson is a bench player.  Probably won't be much more than a 7th man on a good team.

The only way you could honestly see them as better than who's available with the Nets pick is if you're under the impression that mess of a team will make the playoffs.  Even if Brooklyn only provided a pick from 7-10, I'd still take that over either of those players.