Author Topic: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics  (Read 2813 times)

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Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« on: July 08, 2015, 05:24:53 PM »

Offline ssspence

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A few items led me to this idea. Raptors GM Masai Ujiri has prioritized becoming a better perimeter defensive team this summer, signing DeCarroll and Joseph. The Toronto Sun has also reported they're quite open to trading DeRozen due to his pending FA in 2016, where they don't want to give him max money. They also now need a starting PF.

So, as part of an overall agreement, Ainge and Ujiri do the following:

1) Raptors S&T Amir Johnson to Cs for David Lee (could be three way deal with GSW);

2) Raptors trade DeRozen and Terence Ross to Cs for Bradley, either KO or Sully, and one pick.

To me, this checks key boxes for both teams.

Mike

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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 05:36:35 PM »

Offline max215

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Over on Raptors HQ, they seem to be extremely fond of KO and value him quite highly. I'm not saying this means anything, but it's an interesting tidbit IMO.
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 05:42:13 PM »

Offline D Dub

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It seems highly unlikely that Toronto parts with both Ross and Derozen in the same deal, and doesn't get a sure fire all star in return.  They have to keep one of those two in order to justify dealing the other. 

And to be honest, I think I'd rather keep the front court upgrade than add more guards.  I'm also not sure Lee fits the mold of what Toronto is trying to do defensively. 

How about a more simple approach, like AB, KO, two 2nds for just Derozen?     


Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 05:49:07 PM »

Offline ssspence

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It seems highly unlikely that Toronto parts with both Ross and Derozen in the same deal, and doesn't get a sure fire all star in return.  They have to keep one of those two in order to justify dealing the other. 

And to be honest, I think I'd rather keep the front court upgrade than add more guards.  I'm also not sure Lee fits the mold of what Toronto is trying to do defensively. 

How about a more simple approach, like AB, KO, two 2nds for just Derozen?   

I think you overvalue Ross a bit. He's not reached the potential they hoped, and they have another young SF the value highly (Caboclo) where Ross gets in his way.

Meanwhile, they're not getting an All-Star for that package. Doreen is in the last year of his deal, and has his warts. But I'd like to see what Stevens could do with both.

Yes, the Lee part could be removed. Fine if so, but if it would help get it done... fine with me. And I could see Ujiri being interested in him.
Mike

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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 06:12:47 PM »

Offline max215

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It seems highly unlikely that Toronto parts with both Ross and Derozen in the same deal, and doesn't get a sure fire all star in return.  They have to keep one of those two in order to justify dealing the other. 

And to be honest, I think I'd rather keep the front court upgrade than add more guards.  I'm also not sure Lee fits the mold of what Toronto is trying to do defensively. 

How about a more simple approach, like AB, KO, two 2nds for just Derozen?   

FWIW, I went on Raptors HQ and asked what the posters thought of DeRozan for AB, KO, and a pick or two. They all seemed to think it was (possibly more than) fair value.
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2015, 06:15:20 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Given the way the Raptors have imploded in the playoffs the past couple of seasons, it makes sense that they would consider moving Derozan for pieces in order to change up some of the fundamental ways they structure their offense and defense.

Ross has kind of fizzled for them, as well. 

I don't think David Lee makes sense for them, though.  You couldn't play him and JV together.  Also sounds like the Celts definitely acquired him with the intention of keeping him.
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2015, 06:27:08 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Given the way the Raptors have imploded in the playoffs the past couple of seasons, it makes sense that they would consider moving Derozan for pieces in order to change up some of the fundamental ways they structure their offense and defense.

Ross has kind of fizzled for them, as well. 

I don't think David Lee makes sense for them, though.  You couldn't play him and JV together.  Also sounds like the Celts definitely acquired him with the intention of keeping him.

Given the way that the Raptors have imploded in the playoffs the past couple of seasons, there are those who would say that acquiring DeRozan/Ross is the sort of move that would put the Celtics more on a track towards extended mediocrity.
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2015, 06:33:12 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Given the way the Raptors have imploded in the playoffs the past couple of seasons, it makes sense that they would consider moving Derozan for pieces in order to change up some of the fundamental ways they structure their offense and defense.

Ross has kind of fizzled for them, as well. 

I don't think David Lee makes sense for them, though.  You couldn't play him and JV together.  Also sounds like the Celts definitely acquired him with the intention of keeping him.

Given the way that the Raptors have imploded in the playoffs the past couple of seasons, there are those who would say that acquiring DeRozan/Ross is the sort of move that would put the Celtics more on a track towards extended mediocrity.

There are those who would argue that they already appear well on their way, so why not make the best of it?
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 06:36:19 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Given the way the Raptors have imploded in the playoffs the past couple of seasons, it makes sense that they would consider moving Derozan for pieces in order to change up some of the fundamental ways they structure their offense and defense.

Ross has kind of fizzled for them, as well. 

I don't think David Lee makes sense for them, though.  You couldn't play him and JV together.  Also sounds like the Celts definitely acquired him with the intention of keeping him.

Given the way that the Raptors have imploded in the playoffs the past couple of seasons, there are those who would say that acquiring DeRozan/Ross is the sort of move that would put the Celtics more on a track towards extended mediocrity.

Or one playoff series could be seen as a very small sample set. Or it could just be about committing to DeRozen long term for Ujiri, where Ainge is willing to take a bigger chance there considering the cap space it would open if he leaves.

Regardless, I don't think Bradley and Olynyk are boasting our chances of besting that mediocrity, either.
Mike

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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 07:58:59 PM »

Offline jbpats

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Over on Raptors HQ, they seem to be extremely fond of KO and value him quite highly. I'm not saying this means anything, but it's an interesting tidbit IMO.

Its probably because he is Canadian, I can't imagine Ujiri has the same attachment.

Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2015, 08:07:57 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I honestly think swapping Bradley, Turner, and Olynyk for Derozan and Ross would likely make both teams better.
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2015, 08:18:08 PM »

Offline gpap

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A few items led me to this idea. Raptors GM Masai Ujiri has prioritized becoming a better perimeter defensive team this summer, signing DeCarroll and Joseph. The Toronto Sun has also reported they're quite open to trading DeRozen due to his pending FA in 2016, where they don't want to give him max money. They also now need a starting PF.

So, as part of an overall agreement, Ainge and Ujiri do the following:

1) Raptors S&T Amir Johnson to Cs for David Lee (could be three way deal with GSW);

2) Raptors trade DeRozen and Terence Ross to Cs for Bradley, either KO or Sully, and one pick.

To me, this checks key boxes for both teams.

You're idea to immediately trade David Lee makes no sense. They just acquired the guy in exchange for a third-string player that suddenly become a legend since he was traded in Gerald Wallace.

I would have no interest in already dealing Lee, who will make an impact and improve our team.

I REALLY like your second idea and I know PhoSita had also mentioned something similar in another thread. I am especially really big on Derozan. He may not be a top 20 player per se, but I think he would be a HUGE upgrade for us over Bradley and his inconsistencies.

I am sure someone is going to whip out random stat that supposedly proves that Bradley is better than Derozan but I am going with what my eyes tell me.

If we could get him AND Ross, it would be a steal for the Celtics.

My only fear here is the Raptors willingness to trade within the division especially when a player of Derozan's caliber is involved.

Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2015, 08:19:33 PM »

Offline Cman

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How about a more simple approach, like AB, KO, two 2nds for just Derozen?   
I like something along those lines (even a 1st)
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2015, 08:33:39 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Derozen was an all star a season ago and is probably Raptors best player. They're not parting with him unless they have a good idea that he's definitely leaving in free agency or they're getting back a really good return. I don't think the Celtics have anything they want, especially if Carroll is their prospective starting PF in a small ball unit.
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Re: Two Part Trade Idea: Raptors & Celtics
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2015, 08:50:08 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Derozen was an all star a season ago and is probably Raptors best player. They're not parting with him unless they have a good idea that he's definitely leaving in free agency or they're getting back a really good return. I don't think the Celtics have anything they want, especially if Carroll is their prospective starting PF in a small ball unit.

He has an Early Termination Option after this year so he's basically an expiring contract.  He's reported to expect a max contract when he does hit free agency (no surprise) and the Raps are reportedly uneasy about giving such a contract to him.

Kyle Lowry is the Raps' best player and the fit with him and Derozan is far from ideal.

Now that the Raps have signed Carroll, it probably makes more sense to maximize shooting / skill / defense at other positions.

It's either that, or trade Valanciunas and open up the paint, but I think it makes more sense for them to try and make Lowry + Valanciunas the heart of their gameplan and make the rest of their roster fit with that.
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