Robert Upshaw...why we passed on him

[Eddie20]

Uphsaw was heavily discussed leading up to the draft. Here is the reason, which many speculated on, as to why we didn't select him.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2015/06/celtics_prioritize_high_character_guys

The Celtics, like many teams, had interest in Robert Upshaw, most recently of the University of Washington.

According to one team source, the multi-talented 7-footer had enough promise to make him a mid- to high-20s pick. But he’s also been kicked out of two schools during the past two years — Fresno State and Washington this past January — for substance-abuse issues. Medical examinations at the NBA scouting combine also revealed a heart issue. He went undrafted.

With coach Brad Stevens about to unveil his third summer league team, the Celtics simply weren’t going to go there.

“With a young team, I don’t think we really needed to deal with that,” the source said of Upshaw, who will play for the Lakers’ summer league entry in Las Vegas and who has sworn to teams, the Celtics included, that he’s trying to change.

But Stevens is trying to build on his culture. He wants high-character players known for work ethic. Thus the selection of Louisville combo guard Terry Rozier with the 16th pick last Thursday. Rozier’s work habits and drive outweighed what bothered many others — he’s an undersized 6-foot-1, inconsistent shooter and plays a position where the Celtics already have a surplus.

[Greenbean]

Interesting. While I hope the young man figures things out (and I certainly hope his heart condition isnt anything life threatening), I sure hope he doent figure it out with the Lakers.

Also, I hope the team source  isnt 100% accurate.

With Upshaw, maybe the rsks outweighed the potential, but I hope they arent turning a blind eye to "troubled" guys completely.

I understand the desire to build a winning culture, and targeting high character guys, but thats because high character guys tend to be coachable and maximize their talent. You cant just ignore high risk high reward prospects. Im not saying they shouldve carried Upshaw on their SL team, but philospophically, I hope they are searching all corners of the earth for their assets. Their scope should not be that narrow. Besides, Id like to see Brad Stevens ability to reach guys. Hes young and Ive hard one of his best attributes is his relatability to young guys.

[Bangkoker]

Am also wondering. Why Celtics drafted another guard at 45 if there's a center available? Better to gamble on a center than gamble on another guard which the team have more than enough.

[jbpats]

I've said since the draft that the C's should have selected Upshaw instead of Thorton in the second round. The chances of Thorton making the team is very slim, why not gamble on somebody with much more upside?
While he clearly has some character issues, the gamble is minimal and the risk to reward is much greater... not to mention he plays a position where we are lacking. These guys often mature as they get older, send him to Maine or overseas for a year or two and see how he does. Worse comes to worst you cut ties, in all honesty how many late second round picks actually ever pan out?
I think the C's dropped the ball on this one, but like everything else time will tell.

[Eddie20]

Interesting. While I hope the young man figures things out (and I certainly hope his heart condition isnt anything life threatening), I sure hope he doent figure it out with the Lakers.

Also, I hope the team source  isnt 100% accurate.

With Upshaw, maybe the rsks outweighed the potential, but I hope they arent turning a blind eye to "troubled" guys completely.

I understand the desire to build a winning culture, and targeting high character guys, but thats because high character guys tend to be coachable and maximize their talent. You cant just ignore high risk high reward prospects. Im not saying they shouldve carried Upshaw on their SL team, but philospophically, I hope they are searching all corners of the earth for their assets. Their scope should not be that narrow. Besides, Id like to see Brad Stevens ability to reach guys. Hes young and Ive hard one of his best attributes is his relatability to young guys.

To me, that sounds like it's more of Stevens' call. Ainge has always been a maverick in bringing in troubled characters, so I think he's just him appeasing his coach.

[TheTruthFot18]

Am also wondering. Why Celtics drafted another guard at 45 if there's a center available? Better to gamble on a center than gamble on another guard which the team have more than enough.

Even if we pass on Upshaw for some reason, we could have grabbed Dakari Johnson who is a legit center or some draft and stash big.

[Greenbean]

Interesting. While I hope the young man figures things out (and I certainly hope his heart condition isnt anything life threatening), I sure hope he doent figure it out with the Lakers.

Also, I hope the team source  isnt 100% accurate.

With Upshaw, maybe the rsks outweighed the potential, but I hope they arent turning a blind eye to "troubled" guys completely.

I understand the desire to build a winning culture, and targeting high character guys, but thats because high character guys tend to be coachable and maximize their talent. You cant just ignore high risk high reward prospects. Im not saying they shouldve carried Upshaw on their SL team, but philospophically, I hope they are searching all corners of the earth for their assets. Their scope should not be that narrow. Besides, Id like to see Brad Stevens ability to reach guys. Hes young and Ive hard one of his best attributes is his relatability to young guys.

To me, that sounds like it's more of Stevens' call. Ainge has always been a maverick in bringing in troubled characters, so I think he's just him appeasing his coach.

Maybe. Youre right Ainge has that track record and takes risks. I think Stevns is trying to create the best environment for player development. That being said, ignoring risky players entirely is also a mistake. Im not even saying Upshaw is the guy, but they shouldnt be closing all doors. So wherever that is coming from, whether its stevens, Ainge, or ownership, I dont necessarily agree.

Its similar to the Patriots who had some success (and failures) in the past giving guys like this a shot.

After Hernandez, I hope they dont completely ignore risk prospects as well.

[Bangkoker]

Am also wondering. Why Celtics drafted another guard at 45 if there's a center available? Better to gamble on a center than gamble on another guard which the team have more than enough.

Even if we pass on Upshaw for some reason, we could have grabbed Dakari Johnson who is a legit center or some draft and stash big.

Agree, Celtics really need a center and we have an opportunity to draft one either Johnson or Upshaw yet we let it passed. Hopefully, Danny is negotiating with Philly for either Embiid or Noel for some of our backcourt players.

[LooseCannon]

I think Thorton might have been drafted because he was amenable to going on the Colton Iverson plan and might not take up a roster spot.

I think Upshaw was deemed insufficient reward for too much risk.  He projects as a back-up.  Maybe they would have drafted him if he projected as a starter.   One of the knocks on him was a poor work ethic, so I think the Celtics might have passed on him at #16 if he didn't have the drug/heart issues.  He's Patrick O'Bryant with rawer offense, a heart problem, and substance abuse that is likely something other than marijuana.

[Granath]

Uphsaw was heavily discussed leading up to the draft. Here is the reason, which many speculated on, as to why we didn't select him.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2015/06/celtics_prioritize_high_character_guys

The Celtics, like many teams, had interest in Robert Upshaw, most recently of the University of Washington.

According to one team source, the multi-talented 7-footer had enough promise to make him a mid- to high-20s pick. But he’s also been kicked out of two schools during the past two years — Fresno State and Washington this past January — for substance-abuse issues. Medical examinations at the NBA scouting combine also revealed a heart issue. He went undrafted.

With coach Brad Stevens about to unveil his third summer league team, the Celtics simply weren’t going to go there.

“With a young team, I don’t think we really needed to deal with that,” the source said of Upshaw, who will play for the Lakers’ summer league entry in Las Vegas and who has sworn to teams, the Celtics included, that he’s trying to change.

But Stevens is trying to build on his culture. He wants high-character players known for work ethic. Thus the selection of Louisville combo guard Terry Rozier with the 16th pick last Thursday. Rozier’s work habits and drive outweighed what bothered many others — he’s an undersized 6-foot-1, inconsistent shooter and plays a position where the Celtics already have a surplus.

That's the exact same thing I said before the draft.

You can't just consider the upside. You also have to consider the downside and that isn't just on the court, it's in the locker room. Do you want a drug using, lazy malcontent in the locker room with a bunch of younger, impressionable kids? I'm not saying that's what he'll be, but there is a reasonable chance that's what he'll be. So not only could he fail, he could influence others to fail and that's can't be discounted. If it can happen on an experienced Dallas team with Rondo, imagine what could happen with these young Celtics!

Some folks here look at things in isolation and never consider the bigger picture. "Upshaw is the best talent ergo Upshaw should be drafted with the first round pick" is the kind of thing you hear all too often on CB. But when you look at things contextually and as a whole, you realize a guy like carries a massive risk when you take him at any pick. Obviously Danny and Brad viewed the risk and consequences as unacceptably high versus Upshaw's talent and I don't disagree with their evaluation. The last thing you want for this group of scrappy kids is to bring in a bad influence and turn this group into the Jail Blazers.

[kheldar52077]

Its like this

Player A = potential 99 work ethic 20
Player B = potential 85 work ethic 85

Who do you think will be a good player in a short span of time?
 There are a lot of draftees that are comparable with the greats but somehow they never reach the same status of those greats due to poor work ethic.

[truthhurts34]

I don't buy it, cutting Upshaw if he didn't show enough work ethic would've spoken for itself if he was taken 45th.

There's really no reason we shouldve taken Thornton over Upshaw at that point of the draft.

If any player thought they could "take it easier" since Upshaw was picked shouldn't be here.

[LooseCannon]

I don't buy it, cutting Upshaw if he didn't show enough work ethic would've spoken for itself if he was taken 45th.

Cutting Upshaw if he didn't show enough work ethic means you didn't do your homework and wasted an asset on someone who didn't belong.

[vjcsmoke]

The title of the thread should be Robert Upshaw... why EVERYBODY passed on him.

The kid went undrafted.   Every single team in the NBA passed on Upshaw.  This shouldn't even be a thread.  It's moot.

[Granath]

It's moot.

TP on getting that phrase right. I cringe every time I hear about a "mute point".