Author Topic: Only saw one difference in smart tonight  (Read 6355 times)

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Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« on: July 07, 2015, 02:07:22 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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He was more aggressive.  Other than that, close to the same skill set we saw last year.  And contrary to most people, if give him no more than a solid C grade. 

I know this is summer league but he needs to stop shooting.  Unfortunately for him, he isn't a SG so just stop coming off screens shooting.  I suppose he did okay as a PG.  Handled the ball a lot so you would expect a decent assist total.  Basically a guy with a very high usage rate but very inefficient.

In terms of his drives, every one is contested, which means every shot is difficult, which means don't expect him to shoot a high percentage.  And this is in summer league.

So at the end of day, I saw a guy that has been given the green light and took it.  Because he was that good. 

Put it this way.  An nba star needs to outclass these guys.  He didn't come close to that tonight.

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2015, 02:42:19 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'm curious what your definition of "outclass" is, then.  Smart was clearly too good to be playing with most of the other guys on the court.

I think people just need to accept that taking a lot of threes is just part of Smart's game.  Was part of his game in college, and it's a part of his game in the NBA.  Sometimes those shots look ugly, but overall he's an OK shooter from outside and he's going to continue to steadily improve.

Smart got to the line 13 times in that game.  Anytime a guard gets to the line that many times, it's a good thing.  It's not like Smart wasn't working in his teammates, either.  He looked very confident and in command running the pick and roll.


I'm starting to think Smart might develop along the lines of another Boston Celtics guard who never reached stardom while he was here in Boston.  No, not Marcus Banks.  Chauncey Billups.  Mr. Big Shot. 

Billups averaged less than 40% from the field the year that Detroit won the NBA Championship.  His shot selection wasn't always pristine.  But he got to the line and hit big shots.  The confidence in taking shots was part of his game.  And he had the defense and leadership on the floor to back it up.
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Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2015, 03:05:35 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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He didn't come close to that tonight.

We will have to agree to disagree, because 26 points on 20 FGA is a pretty impressive scoring efficiency (that's up there with Ray Allen good) and that's largely because his poor FG% was made up for by the fact that he made something like 12 free throws.

He also has an uncharacteristically bad shooting night - smart is a 34% three point shooter, and shot 20% tonight.  If anything that impresses me even more, that he could have such a poor shooting night and STILL dominate the game offensively.

I will absolutely agree that he took too many threes, but in his defense he DID start driving more aggressively in the second half once he realised his jumper wasn't falling.  Still took too many jumpers regardless, but at least he seemed to acknowledge that the shot wasn't falling, and he needed to try something else.

His 8:1 Assist/Turnover ratio (I don't count the last turnover from that BS offensive foul call) was extremely impressive for a guy who handled the ball as much as Smart did on this day.  Even if you do count the second turnover, a 4:1 Assist/Turnover ratio is still on par with Chris Paul, who's been leading the league in that statistically for nearly a decade now.

I'd have liked to see more of other guys (Rozier, Thornton, Hunter and Mickey primarilly) though, so I hope they limit Smart to 20 mins or so for the next game - let those guys take a more prominent role. 



Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2015, 03:57:26 AM »

Offline krumeto

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He didn't come close to that tonight.

We will have to agree to disagree, because 26 points on 20 FGA is a pretty impressive scoring efficiency (that's up there with Ray Allen good) and that's largely because his poor FG% was made up for by the fact that he made something like 12 free throws.

He also has an uncharacteristically bad shooting night - smart is a 34% three point shooter, and shot 20% tonight.  If anything that impresses me even more, that he could have such a poor shooting night and STILL dominate the game offensively.

I will absolutely agree that he took too many threes, but in his defense he DID start driving more aggressively in the second half once he realised his jumper wasn't falling.  Still took too many jumpers regardless, but at least he seemed to acknowledge that the shot wasn't falling, and he needed to try something else.

His 8:1 Assist/Turnover ratio (I don't count the last turnover from that BS offensive foul call) was extremely impressive for a guy who handled the ball as much as Smart did on this day.  Even if you do count the second turnover, a 4:1 Assist/Turnover ratio is still on par with Chris Paul, who's been leading the league in that statistically for nearly a decade now.

I'd have liked to see more of other guys (Rozier, Thornton, Hunter and Mickey primarilly) though, so I hope they limit Smart to 20 mins or so for the next game - let those guys take a more prominent role.
+1 on the whole post.

His TS% for the game is .505 which is not that bad for the subpar shooting night he had.

All good, he showed us his ability to draw FTs. Now I really want to see what we have with Terry as a ball handler. Mickey proved to be a good pick and roll partner. Get them some action together.

The reason I hated that Colton left the camp is that we have not a single soul out there able to set a good screen (except for probably Mickey). We need some good screens to free up Young and RJ. I want some actions run for both of them outside of the usual stretching the floor and cutting.

RJ is a very good passer off screens and I saw a couple of plays where Young was put in a postion to either lob to the screener or go to the basket. They ran it twice. More of the same would be nice and with RJ as the man off screens.
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Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 04:00:40 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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He was more aggressive.  Other than that, close to the same skill set we saw last year.  And contrary to most people, if give him no more than a solid C grade. 

I know this is summer league but he needs to stop shooting. 

Let him shoot.   He needs to try to find some consistency.   Don't let it bother you.  As long as he continues shooting 30%, there's no way he'll have a major role in our offense.  If there isn't progression, he'll just continue to be a defensive role player.  Summer league is the time when he can try to make that progression in situations that don't count.

Also, even with the garbage shooting, the inflated stats help his trade value a bit.   It'd be more concerning if Smart came out and took 5 shots.   We need to keep that trade value high if we have any hope including him in a large package for a star this summer.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 04:08:12 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 04:25:49 AM »

Offline Rhyso

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He was more aggressive.  Other than that, close to the same skill set we saw last year.  And contrary to most people, if give him no more than a solid C grade. 

I know this is summer league but he needs to stop shooting. 

Let him shoot.   He needs to try to find some consistency.   Don't let it bother you.  As long as he continues shooting 30%, there's no way he'll have a major role in our offense.  If there isn't progression, he'll just continue to be a defensive role player.  Summer league is the time when he can try to make that progression in situations that don't count.

Also, even with the garbage shooting, the inflated stats help his trade value a bit.   It'd be more concerning if Smart came out and took 5 shots.   We need to keep that trade value high if we have any hope including him in a large package for a star this summer.
Whilst this is a good thing to have, I really hope Danny doesn't trade him (unless it's for a top 10 player or something). Trading him for a higher pick doesn't seem like a good idea IMO, we know at worst Smart is probably a one-way defensive stopper, top picks sometimes don't turn into one-way anythings.

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 04:45:20 AM »

Offline BornReady

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he was good but i didnt see any improvement from smart
i agree he was good but he was pretty inefficient for a guy that is supposed to be star
but then again this is the first game of the season and only summer league
so guys are going to show some holiday rust

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 05:24:05 AM »

Offline makaveli

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He was more aggressive.  Other than that, close to the same skill set we saw last year.  And contrary to most people, if give him no more than a solid C grade. 

I know this is summer league but he needs to stop shooting.  Unfortunately for him, he isn't a SG so just stop coming off screens shooting.  I suppose he did okay as a PG.  Handled the ball a lot so you would expect a decent assist total.  Basically a guy with a very high usage rate but very inefficient.

In terms of his drives, every one is contested, which means every shot is difficult, which means don't expect him to shoot a high percentage.  And this is in summer league.

So at the end of day, I saw a guy that has been given the green light and took it.  Because he was that good. 

Put it this way.  An nba star needs to outclass these guys.  He didn't come close to that tonight.
stop shooting...wow
make better shot selection, surely, but stop shooting?
if Marcus Smart stoped shooting, he would be out of this league by year 3 of his career.

what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2015, 05:33:03 AM »

Offline shrinkage36

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I hate that you guys are going to be miserable because he's here and he's here to stay, so good luck in the misery.

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2015, 05:35:28 AM »

Offline makaveli

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an after thought:
last year before the draf or right after we drafted Marcus i saw this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuyD3JOwnug

witch lead me to believe that this guy jumps out off the building(read uses a lot more of his ahleticism in his game). Don't get me wrond, i don't expect him do dunk windmills over howard or anything like that, it's just that when you watch him( and i watched every summer leauge, preseason and regular and playoff game) you don't get the sence that he is athletic, more of an under the rim type of a guy, witch i found to be a little dissappointing.

But i love this guy, his defense alone is a game changer and if he continues to improve his game on the other end, he will be a force in this league.
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2015, 06:31:23 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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I loved what I saw from Smart last night. Granted he missed a ton of 3's, but if he is going to develop into an aggressive offensive player, he needs the outside shot to keep defenses honest.

If this first game is any indication, he is going to really try to turn into the player he looked like in college. Looks like he has 2 goals, keep developing the 3pt shot, and get to the basket more consistently. He'll never be a lights out shooter, but I am willing to bet hell turn into a good streaky shooter from deep who can hit big shots. And if hes getting to the line a ton, that is totlly fine.

Im thrilled that he has not explored a mid range game. Its either chuck a 3, or drive to the basket (in addition to facilitating).





Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2015, 06:38:56 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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an after thought:
last year before the draf or right after we drafted Marcus i saw this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuyD3JOwnug

witch lead me to believe that this guy jumps out off the building(read uses a lot more of his ahleticism in his game). Don't get me wrond, i don't expect him do dunk windmills over howard or anything like that, it's just that when you watch him( and i watched every summer leauge, preseason and regular and playoff game) you don't get the sence that he is athletic, more of an under the rim type of a guy, witch i found to be a little dissappointing.

But i love this guy, his defense alone is a game changer and if he continues to improve his game on the other end, he will be a force in this league.
I think he saves his athelticism for more lateral movement where he really shines.

I think he can get a step on most defenders and he uses his strength well. Also when he jumps in the lane, I see him hanging alot, looking for contact. No necessarily just going straight up looking for a jam.

So I agree, we never see him soaring for dunks, but that doesnt mean he isnt using his athelticism during the game.

I know alot of guys are left thinking Smart doesnt look athletic, but I see a guy who uses his athelticism well, but he could certainly improve his first step.

I have heard people say he doesnt have any explosiveness. I think that is off. Look at his explosive movement on defense. I think the more he develops his offensive game, he will learn how to set guys up and get by them on the first step as opposed to the 2nd or 2rd.


Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 07:20:51 AM »

Offline jbpats

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He was more aggressive.  Other than that, close to the same skill set we saw last year.  And contrary to most people, if give him no more than a solid C grade. 

I know this is summer league but he needs to stop shooting.  Unfortunately for him, he isn't a SG so just stop coming off screens shooting.  I suppose he did okay as a PG.  Handled the ball a lot so you would expect a decent assist total.  Basically a guy with a very high usage rate but very inefficient.

In terms of his drives, every one is contested, which means every shot is difficult, which means don't expect him to shoot a high percentage.  And this is in summer league.

So at the end of day, I saw a guy that has been given the green light and took it.  Because he was that good. 

Put it this way.  An nba star needs to outclass these guys.  He didn't come close to that tonight.

I'm with you on this, started reading the other thread regarding the game and thought for a second that I watched something entirely different last night.
Marcus was aggressive but he did not impress me at all. Forced way too many shots and shot poorly.
He was playing against inferior D and he couldn't create much. Needless to say I wouldn't consider it an A+ performance, low C is accurate.

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 12:32:05 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I'm curious what your definition of "outclass" is, then.  Smart was clearly too good to be playing with most of the other guys on the court.

I think people just need to accept that taking a lot of threes is just part of Smart's game.  Was part of his game in college, and it's a part of his game in the NBA.  Sometimes those shots look ugly, but overall he's an OK shooter from outside and he's going to continue to steadily improve.

Smart got to the line 13 times in that game.  Anytime a guard gets to the line that many times, it's a good thing.  It's not like Smart wasn't working in his teammates, either.  He looked very confident and in command running the pick and roll.


I'm starting to think Smart might develop along the lines of another Boston Celtics guard who never reached stardom while he was here in Boston.  No, not Marcus Banks.  Chauncey Billups.  Mr. Big Shot. 

Billups averaged less than 40% from the field the year that Detroit won the NBA Championship.  His shot selection wasn't always pristine.  But he got to the line and hit big shots.  The confidence in taking shots was part of his game.  And he had the defense and leadership on the floor to back it up.
Was reading a story about the Utah summer league yesterday before the game.  The story mentioned Deron Williams' experience.  Basically, they described his first year in summer league as some good, some bad.  Apparently, his second year he basically dominated so easily that they decided to pull him out after only two games; he didn't belong there.

So while I cannot give you a definition, what I would say is that you know it when you see it.  And I didn't see it last night.

Re: Only saw one difference in smart tonight
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2015, 12:47:01 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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an after thought:
last year before the draf or right after we drafted Marcus i saw this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuyD3JOwnug

witch lead me to believe that this guy jumps out off the building(read uses a lot more of his ahleticism in his game). Don't get me wrond, i don't expect him do dunk windmills over howard or anything like that, it's just that when you watch him( and i watched every summer leauge, preseason and regular and playoff game) you don't get the sence that he is athletic, more of an under the rim type of a guy, witch i found to be a little dissappointing.

But i love this guy, his defense alone is a game changer and if he continues to improve his game on the other end, he will be a force in this league.
I think he saves his athelticism for more lateral movement where he really shines.

I think he can get a step on most defenders and he uses his strength well. Also when he jumps in the lane, I see him hanging alot, looking for contact. No necessarily just going straight up looking for a jam.

So I agree, we never see him soaring for dunks, but that doesnt mean he isnt using his athelticism during the game.

I know alot of guys are left thinking Smart doesnt look athletic, but I see a guy who uses his athelticism well, but he could certainly improve his first step.

I have heard people say he doesnt have any explosiveness. I think that is off. Look at his explosive movement on defense. I think the more he develops his offensive game, he will learn how to set guys up and get by them on the first step as opposed to the 2nd or 2rd.

I think that video, as well as his college highlights, explain the disparity of effort involved between horsing around/playing against inferior competition and actually playing in the NBA more than it says anything about Smart's athleticism.

Part of the reason I abhor the NCAA game is because of the sanctimonious fans (and some coaches) and the hypocrisy of the institution, but a large part of it is that it isn't the highest caliber of basketball -- that goes for athleticism as well as the playmaking.
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