Author Topic: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris  (Read 11097 times)

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Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2015, 10:14:42 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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Markieff Morris is a definite upgrade over Sullinger and Olynyk at the 4. If we could consolidate those two players into Markieff Morris somehow it would be a signifcant boost to our roster. He is on a super affordable contract for his production' especialy considering the money being thrown around right now.  He would be paid 15 million per if he was looking for a contract right now for sure. If I was Danny, I'd look to deal Sully and Olynyk and then grab Morris.

Can't deal Sully & Olynyk. They should try to move Avery Bradley & maybe other pieces or picks. Sully is our only rebounder.

Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2015, 10:27:24 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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A Sully and Turner for Morris and additional asset seems to make a lot of sense.


An in shape healthy sully is hand down superior to Morris but I fear conditioning and health will be a career long struggle for sully. I also doubt that DA wants to have to commit big money to Sullinger after this season. Morris's contract is very reasonable especially when compared to this off seasons deals. Have a core of talent that is locked up for the next few seasons at reasonable teams only helps the Cs attract or trade for the high end talent they need to compete in the playoffs.   
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Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2015, 10:34:11 AM »

Offline Cman

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A Sully and Turner for Morris and additional asset seems to make a lot of sense.


An in shape healthy sully is hand down superior to Morris but I fear conditioning and health will be a career long struggle for sully. I also doubt that DA wants to have to commit big money to Sullinger after this season. Morris's contract is very reasonable especially when compared to this off seasons deals. Have a core of talent that is locked up for the next few seasons at reasonable teams only helps the Cs attract or trade for the high end talent they need to compete in the playoffs.

What's in it for the Suns, though?
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Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2015, 10:37:27 AM »

Offline saltlover

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I'm not.  Look, he's not bad.  Role player oughtn't be an insult.  You need some of those, as LeBron James can attest to.  But you need space for stars as well.  I don't think you need to get our stars first and then build a team -- I think if anything recent offseasons have shown us stars aren't interested in that model.  But a championship team really needs two of them.  Scheming can take away one in the playoffs, but it's hard to scheme away two.  And stars both cost money and take up roster space, and our current roster just needs stars.  Anyone else we add ought to be on one-year deals, like Johnson and Jerebko.  We're overloaded with value - we need marginal utility now.  Morris is fine, but he doesn't elevate this team at this point even if he's a good locker room guy, and that part of him is certainly up for debate.

We project right now to have $52 million in cap room next season, with a solid guard rotation, but need for some real star power in the front court.  Max salary guys will command $25-30 million.  Morris gets in the way of that flexibility, and doesn't add enough to warrant such a loss.  If Crowder had walked away on a large offer, it might be different.  But he stayed, and that's all the long-term non-star salary we should be adding this summer.

Couldn't he be viewed as another 'asset?' Proven role players in the NBA are worth more then low draft picks or guys like KO.
I kind of see him as a similar piece as IT, favorable contract but plays a position where we have a crowd... At the very least he is a serviceable player with a favorable contract, wouldn't that combination help us if we wanted to use him for a potential trade this year or next?
I think the quality of player we could land would be far superior with a combo of Morris and a 1st rounder then JJ or KO + a first rounder.

Proven NBA players are not worth that much when they're signed to long money.  Courtney Lee had been perfectly effective in his role, and was signed to a market fair deal with 2.5 years left.  It cost the C's a 2nd round pick to unload him.  Jarrett Jack was a decent NBA veteran, maybe signed to a little much, but coming off a year in Cleveland that was no different from his career averages except for his assists (understandable since he was a secondary ball handler with Kyrie on the team).  It cost a 1st and 2 prospects on rookie deals to move him.  IT actually got the Suns an asset, but it was a 1st that projected to be 28-30 a year out.  It was far from a windfall.  And I don't think IT is the centerpiece in any deal that nets a star.

If you're trading a star, you're going to be shifting gears on your franchise.  That means you want three things:
1) Young players on rookie deals who are starting to show something.
2) Draft picks
3) Payroll flexibility

Morris doesn't get you those.  He's reaching the point where his game is what it is -- and that includes his warts (rebounding).  Maybe you can get something for Morris from a team that has a star or two and is looking for depth at the hybrid 3/4 spot, and happens to have a trade exception or expiring to match.  Maybe.  But he's not attractive to a team that's moving a star player.  If the Mavs or Clippers could match contracts (they can't), perhaps they'd call.  Maybe Portland would be interested.  But the market for a player like him is so low, that it's pretty telling to his team's opinion of him if he's on the block and they have no internal or external options to replace him.

Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2015, 11:11:01 AM »

Offline heitingas

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I thought he and his brother were inseparable.  Don't they have matching tattoos and everything?   


I had to guess he would be upset with the Suns after they traded away his brother. 
that's just super creepy

Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2015, 11:37:04 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I prefer Sullinger.

Production wise, Morris owns him

https://www.fantasysp.com/start/nba/82865/jared-sullinger-or-markieff-morris

Yes, it is fantasy basketball but it still compares stats etc, not to mention Sully's pathetic D.

This compares too.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/markieff-morris/comparison/15/24/353/25

Morris is a better shooter, the only area where Sully does better is rebounder.  Morris hit .35% of his threes that alone would make him better suited than Sully to CBS offense.  Morris does a lot of steals for a big about 1.3 SPG.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6461/markieff-morris

One thing to consider is Sully often play C.  He is too slow to play PF.  Morris plays PF but he got those numbers in the loaded western conference.   I think it might be something we want to look into.  Morris can play SF too.

Rumor is they want to sign Ryan Anderson, I think he would fit in here too.

Quote
Can't deal Sully & Olynyk. They should try to move Avery Bradley & maybe other pieces or picks. Sully is our only rebounder.
  He is our best rebounder but he is also our worst defender and a lot of games last year CBS did not trust him at the end of games.   He also said we were not going to sacrifice defensive integrity when he came back.   That ought to make it obvious that he does not always like Jared.

The difference in rebounding between these two is 1.4 RPG in favor of Sully.   That ought to be offset by the upgrade in defense we gain by losing Sullinger on D.


Check his out

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=morrima02&p2=sullija01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Finally

http://www.82games.com/1415/14PHO19.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS19.HTM

Morris opponents shoot a lower FG and lower EFF against him.

It is a lateral move, but it is one that improves us and gets a better fit to CBS system.   Hitting threes are 5% would help us too.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 11:47:31 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2015, 12:25:40 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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What is the cost?

Pretty athletic "swing" who can play both ways a bit.
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Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2015, 12:37:29 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Quote

I'm not.  Look, he's not bad.  Role player oughtn't be an insult.  You need some of those, as LeBron James can attest to.  But you need space for stars as well.  I don't think you need to get our stars first and then build a team -- I think if anything recent offseasons have shown us stars aren't interested in that model.  But a championship team really needs two of them.  Scheming can take away one in the playoffs, but it's hard to scheme away two.  And stars both cost money and take up roster space, and our current roster just needs stars.  Anyone else we add ought to be on one-year deals, like Johnson and Jerebko.  We're overloaded with value - we need marginal utility now.  Morris is fine, but he doesn't elevate this team at this point even if he's a good locker room guy, and that part of him is certainly up for debate.

We project right now to have $52 million in cap room next season, with a solid guard rotation, but need for some real star power in the front court.  Max salary guys will command $25-30 million.  Morris gets in the way of that flexibility, and doesn't add enough to warrant such a loss.  If Crowder had walked away on a large offer, it might be different.  But he stayed, and that's all the long-term non-star salary we should be adding this summer.

Couldn't he be viewed as another 'asset?' Proven role players in the NBA are worth more then low draft picks or guys like KO.
I kind of see him as a similar piece as IT, favorable contract but plays a position where we have a crowd... At the very least he is a serviceable player with a favorable contract, wouldn't that combination help us if we wanted to use him for a potential trade this year or next?
I think the quality of player we could land would be far superior with a combo of Morris and a 1st rounder then JJ or KO + a first rounder.

Proven NBA players are not worth that much when they're signed to long money.  Courtney Lee had been perfectly effective in his role, and was signed to a market fair deal with 2.5 years left.  It cost the C's a 2nd round pick to unload him.  Jarrett Jack was a decent NBA veteran, maybe signed to a little much, but coming off a year in Cleveland that was no different from his career averages except for his assists (understandable since he was a secondary ball handler with Kyrie on the team).  It cost a 1st and 2 prospects on rookie deals to move him.  IT actually got the Suns an asset, but it was a 1st that projected to be 28-30 a year out.  It was far from a windfall.  And I don't think IT is the centerpiece in any deal that nets a star.

If you're trading a star, you're going to be shifting gears on your franchise.  That means you want three things:
1) Young players on rookie deals who are starting to show something.
2) Draft picks
3) Payroll flexibility

Morris doesn't get you those.  He's reaching the point where his game is what it is -- and that includes his warts (rebounding).  Maybe you can get something for Morris from a team that has a star or two and is looking for depth at the hybrid 3/4 spot, and happens to have a trade exception or expiring to match.  Maybe.  But he's not attractive to a team that's moving a star player.  If the Mavs or Clippers could match contracts (they can't), perhaps they'd call.  Maybe Portland would be interested.  But the market for a player like him is so low, that it's pretty telling to his team's opinion of him if he's on the block and they have no internal or external options to replace him.
He is what he is. yes. However I think we can all agree that on the open market today he probably gets ~12 mil a year with a player option on the end.

We could have him for 8 mil. It is nearly exactly like the IT deal.

In 2 years for all we know a player of his caliber could net 15 mil on the open market, then he is a 27 year old player in the midst of his prime at an absolute bargain of a contract.

That is pretty valuable.

I think a team moving a star (not a superstar) who isnt looking to completely blow it up and tank would love to add a bargain of a player with his skillset
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Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2015, 12:41:01 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I thought he and his brother were inseparable.  Don't they have matching tattoos and everything?   


I had to guess he would be upset with the Suns after they traded away his brother. 
that's just super creepy


At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2015, 01:55:36 PM »

Offline jbpats

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I'm not.  Look, he's not bad.  Role player oughtn't be an insult.  You need some of those, as LeBron James can attest to.  But you need space for stars as well.  I don't think you need to get our stars first and then build a team -- I think if anything recent offseasons have shown us stars aren't interested in that model.  But a championship team really needs two of them.  Scheming can take away one in the playoffs, but it's hard to scheme away two.  And stars both cost money and take up roster space, and our current roster just needs stars.  Anyone else we add ought to be on one-year deals, like Johnson and Jerebko.  We're overloaded with value - we need marginal utility now.  Morris is fine, but he doesn't elevate this team at this point even if he's a good locker room guy, and that part of him is certainly up for debate.

We project right now to have $52 million in cap room next season, with a solid guard rotation, but need for some real star power in the front court.  Max salary guys will command $25-30 million.  Morris gets in the way of that flexibility, and doesn't add enough to warrant such a loss.  If Crowder had walked away on a large offer, it might be different.  But he stayed, and that's all the long-term non-star salary we should be adding this summer.

Couldn't he be viewed as another 'asset?' Proven role players in the NBA are worth more then low draft picks or guys like KO.
I kind of see him as a similar piece as IT, favorable contract but plays a position where we have a crowd... At the very least he is a serviceable player with a favorable contract, wouldn't that combination help us if we wanted to use him for a potential trade this year or next?
I think the quality of player we could land would be far superior with a combo of Morris and a 1st rounder then JJ or KO + a first rounder.

Proven NBA players are not worth that much when they're signed to long money.  Courtney Lee had been perfectly effective in his role, and was signed to a market fair deal with 2.5 years left.  It cost the C's a 2nd round pick to unload him.  Jarrett Jack was a decent NBA veteran, maybe signed to a little much, but coming off a year in Cleveland that was no different from his career averages except for his assists (understandable since he was a secondary ball handler with Kyrie on the team).  It cost a 1st and 2 prospects on rookie deals to move him.  IT actually got the Suns an asset, but it was a 1st that projected to be 28-30 a year out.  It was far from a windfall.  And I don't think IT is the centerpiece in any deal that nets a star.

If you're trading a star, you're going to be shifting gears on your franchise.  That means you want three things:
1) Young players on rookie deals who are starting to show something.
2) Draft picks
3) Payroll flexibility

Morris doesn't get you those.  He's reaching the point where his game is what it is -- and that includes his warts (rebounding).  Maybe you can get something for Morris from a team that has a star or two and is looking for depth at the hybrid 3/4 spot, and happens to have a trade exception or expiring to match.  Maybe.  But he's not attractive to a team that's moving a star player.  If the Mavs or Clippers could match contracts (they can't), perhaps they'd call.  Maybe Portland would be interested.  But the market for a player like him is so low, that it's pretty telling to his team's opinion of him if he's on the block and they have no internal or external options to replace him.
He is what he is. yes. However I think we can all agree that on the open market today he probably gets ~12 mil a year with a player option on the end.

We could have him for 8 mil. It is nearly exactly like the IT deal.

In 2 years for all we know a player of his caliber could net 15 mil on the open market, then he is a 27 year old player in the midst of his prime at an absolute bargain of a contract.

That is pretty valuable.

I think a team moving a star (not a superstar) who isnt looking to completely blow it up and tank would love to add a bargain of a player with his skillset

agreed, and the point I was trying to make nonetheless, you just worded it much better

Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2015, 02:03:23 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I prefer Sullinger.

Production wise, Morris owns him

https://www.fantasysp.com/start/nba/82865/jared-sullinger-or-markieff-morris

Yes, it is fantasy basketball but it still compares stats etc, not to mention Sully's pathetic D.

This compares too.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/phoenix-suns/players/markieff-morris/comparison/15/24/353/25

Morris is a better shooter, the only area where Sully does better is rebounder.  Morris hit .35% of his threes that alone would make him better suited than Sully to CBS offense.  Morris does a lot of steals for a big about 1.3 SPG.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6461/markieff-morris

One thing to consider is Sully often play C.  He is too slow to play PF.  Morris plays PF but he got those numbers in the loaded western conference.   I think it might be something we want to look into.  Morris can play SF too.

Rumor is they want to sign Ryan Anderson, I think he would fit in here too.

Quote
Can't deal Sully & Olynyk. They should try to move Avery Bradley & maybe other pieces or picks. Sully is our only rebounder.
  He is our best rebounder but he is also our worst defender and a lot of games last year CBS did not trust him at the end of games.   He also said we were not going to sacrifice defensive integrity when he came back.   That ought to make it obvious that he does not always like Jared.

The difference in rebounding between these two is 1.4 RPG in favor of Sully.   That ought to be offset by the upgrade in defense we gain by losing Sullinger on D.


Check his out

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=morrima02&p2=sullija01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Finally

http://www.82games.com/1415/14PHO19.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS19.HTM

Morris opponents shoot a lower FG and lower EFF against him.

It is a lateral move, but it is one that improves us and gets a better fit to CBS system.   Hitting threes are 5% would help us too.

Can you do that same study, but with a 22-year old Markieff? Thanks.

Re: Rumor: Suns are attempting to move Markieff Moris
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2015, 02:07:01 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I just want to know if we can make incest jokes generally or if this is a one-off thing because given some of the standards here that would be pretty hilarious.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.