What The Hell Is Ainge Waiting For??

[Mass_1081]

This was the summer Ainge needed to make something happen IMHO.

1. We can forget about free agency next year. If we can't land a single top FA when we're one of a handful of teams with cap space this summer, imagine next year when virtually every team in the league will have near max space on hand.

2. Our players are probably at their max value right now. Coming off a nice little playoff run. We got some great seasons out of guys like Crowder, KO, IT. Even Sully probably had his best season to date. What are the chances all these guys can repeat last year? That Sully can remotely stay in shape? That KO will toughen up? That IT will be the player he was during the end of the season and not the ballhog he was in the playoffs? That James Young remains tantalizing potential instead of the one-armed bench player we all know he is?

3. Our picks were at max value. The Nets are not going to tank. They have zero reason to and every reason to avoid it. Really think the Russian dude and Billy King want to deal with the embarrassment of trading high lotto picks for one season of KG and PP? They'll spend the dough to stay above water, let's be honest. And we've proven we won't tank. These picks are going to continue to decrease in value as teams see that they're going to be mid to late-first rounders.

Danny, Stevens, Wyc and Co. blew it this season and off-season, there's simply no question about it.

   I agree with you about free agency, next year isn't going to be fun. My guess is they'll carry the space over another year. I disagree about the Nets, not having a reason to tank doesn't automatically mean wins. All it takes is a Lopez injury and they are sunk. Right now as it stands they aren't making the playoffs and neither are we. What I had hope Boston would have done was played Smart full time at the point and given Young twenty minutes per last season. Thrown them right to the fire and taken the lumps along the way. At least then you might have built their value somewhat and came out of it with a lottery pick in the process. This team really needs to either have some player step up and show something surprising or get very lucky I n the incoming draft.

[TOFTT]

"you wrote "nice little playoff run" among other things in "yho."  If that means you wanted the playoffs, is it fair to ask why, since you are upset with Danny not improving the draft position, is it not fair to ask you, why you desired a playoff position and  the resulting sweep against the Celtics and the resulting lower draft position. I recognize that as a fan we should root for the team, but consistency of thought makes me wonder why you are crying about draft position, when you knowingly accepted such a position for the four games and the Celtics resulting presence.

[gpap]

Jury is still out on this one. We have no clue how valuable those picks are going to be and if they're not valuable (in other words not in the lottery) then we gave up two hall of famers for a bunch of garbage.

Also, the other moves you mentioned are very small scale moves that literally no one knows or remembers. Also 3 of the moves you referenced happened 9-11 years ago. I am talking about larger scale trades that have happened post KG. Picking up Nate was good but then Ainge traded him a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

He has won plenty but your dislike of him has clearly clouded your perceptions.   There is a reason other GMs are scared to deal with him.   GM consistently identify him as one of the best out there, though after this off season, I am inclined to think Pop and SA have the best GM.

It takes understanding of the salary cap, to understand the depth of some of his moves.   If you shallow measure them by player acquisition and can't see beyond that then I feel for you.


December 18, 2014: Traded Dwight Powell and Rajon Rondo to the Dallas Mavericks for Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, Brandan Wright, a 2015 1st round draft pick and a 2016 2nd round draft pick. (2015 pick is conditional. Boston also receives $13M trade exception.)

January 9, 2015: Traded Brandan Wright to the Phoenix Suns for a 2015 1st round draft pick (MIN 1st-Rd Pick was later selected). (The 1st round pick is top-12 protected in both 2015 and 2016. If the pick is still held in 2017 it will become two 2nd-round picks.)

January 12, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, the Boston Celtics traded Jeff Green to the Memphis Grizzlies; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Tayshaun Prince and a future 1st round pick to the Boston Celtics; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Quincy Pondexter and a 2015 2nd round draft pick to the New Orleans Pelicans; the New Orleans Pelicans traded Austin Rivers to the Boston Celtics; and the New Orleans Pelicans traded Russ Smith to the Memphis Grizzlies. (Memphis will receive a traded player exception.)

January 13, 2015: Traded Jameer Nelson to the Denver Nuggets for Nate Robinson.

January 15, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, the Boston Celtics traded Austin Rivers to the Los Angeles Clippers; the Los Angeles Clippers traded Chris Douglas-Roberts and a 2017 2nd round draft pick to the Boston Celtics; the Los Angeles Clippers traded Reggie Bullock to the Phoenix Suns; and the Phoenix Suns traded Shavlik Randolph to the Boston Celtics.

January 23, 2015: Signed Andre Dawkins to a 10-day contract.

February 19, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, the Boston Celtics traded Marcus Thornton and a 2016 1st round draft pick to the Phoenix Suns; the Boston Celtics traded Tayshaun Prince to the Detroit Pistons; the Detroit Pistons traded Gigi Datome and Jonas Jerebko to the Boston Celtics; and the Phoenix Suns traded Isaiah Thomas to the Boston Celtics. (PHO 2016 1st round pick received from BOS is CLE's pick and is top-10 protected.)

Lots of picks in these trades, that will someday be players only then can we truly evaluate them.  The brilliance is that almost all of them helped us slightly or got something for a guy who was no longer in our plans without giving up much.

Yeah that Andre Dawkins pick up was HUGE. I still haven't settled down from the excitement of that move (not to mention I don't know who the hell Andre Dawkins is.)

I could be wrong but I think that this is a list of every move Ainge made over that span of time.

I think the fact that the only bad move you can find is signing a guy to a 10-day contract pretty much confirms that you are wrong in this argument.

Far from it

1.)The Jeff Green trade. As happy as I was to get rid of that bum, all we got was a pick from Memphis. I question how valuable that will be as Memphis is consistently one of the best teams in the NBA. We also had Tayshaun Prince for a cup of coffee, only to trade him to Detroit.

2.)The Brandon Wright deal netted us another worthless pick (people just keep overrating all these mediocre picks that couldn't help us move up 7 spots in this years draft.)

3.)Jameer Nelson for Nate Robinson would didn't play a single game for us. What did that accomplish?

I will admit the Isaiah deal was a good one and I admitted earlier in this thread that the Rondo deal was decent as well.

But the moniker "Trader Danny" is becoming a joke and hardly true. DA has picked up a couple decent players but guys like Jerebko, Crowder and Isaiah are more role players than difference makers.

[Neurotic Guy]

We need to get to the point where any top 10-15 type player could look at us and think, if I went there I could win a title.

Asset acquisition is great, but it also has diminishing returns.  Part of finding the exciting young players is continuing to till the soil to churn up fresh earth.  In other words, trade off the players who have topped out at "just another guy" level.

This is the key: Danny's current assets are not diminishing in value. The return is ascending.

I think the value of Bradley and Sullinger / Olynyk is probably as high it will ever be.  The same is probably true of Zeller (though due to positional scarcity at center, I'm OK w/ keeping Zeller).

The value of Rozier, Young, Hunter, and Mickey will remain low or a complete question mark, however, unless the way is cleared so that they can get enough playing time to show something.  Smart will need to get gradually increasing minutes to raise his value, also.

Can't say you are wrong since we're both just guessing, but my guess is s little more optimistic. Rozier, RJH, Young, Smart, Sully, KO, AB, TZ, Crowder,  and Mickey all have a decent chance at raising their value.  Some won't and some will.  How that plays out is the difference between Danny's strategy being brilliant or a mistake.  I think it's more likely that it's a good strategy.
  In terms of asset value I also think GWs contract increases  in value and its possibly the same for Amir and Jonas.

Also should point out that as the reality of the cap-raise sinks in, contracts like IT, AB, and JC should all be considered bargains -- increasing each player's trade value.

[BitterJim]

Jury is still out on this one. We have no clue how valuable those picks are going to be and if they're not valuable (in other words not in the lottery) then we gave up two hall of famers for a bunch of garbage.

Also, the other moves you mentioned are very small scale moves that literally no one knows or remembers. Also 3 of the moves you referenced happened 9-11 years ago. I am talking about larger scale trades that have happened post KG. Picking up Nate was good but then Ainge traded him a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

He has won plenty but your dislike of him has clearly clouded your perceptions.   There is a reason other GMs are scared to deal with him.   GM consistently identify him as one of the best out there, though after this off season, I am inclined to think Pop and SA have the best GM.

It takes understanding of the salary cap, to understand the depth of some of his moves.   If you shallow measure them by player acquisition and can't see beyond that then I feel for you.


December 18, 2014: Traded Dwight Powell and Rajon Rondo to the Dallas Mavericks for Jae Crowder, Jameer Nelson, Brandan Wright, a 2015 1st round draft pick and a 2016 2nd round draft pick. (2015 pick is conditional. Boston also receives $13M trade exception.)

January 9, 2015: Traded Brandan Wright to the Phoenix Suns for a 2015 1st round draft pick (MIN 1st-Rd Pick was later selected). (The 1st round pick is top-12 protected in both 2015 and 2016. If the pick is still held in 2017 it will become two 2nd-round picks.)

January 12, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, the Boston Celtics traded Jeff Green to the Memphis Grizzlies; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Tayshaun Prince and a future 1st round pick to the Boston Celtics; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Quincy Pondexter and a 2015 2nd round draft pick to the New Orleans Pelicans; the New Orleans Pelicans traded Austin Rivers to the Boston Celtics; and the New Orleans Pelicans traded Russ Smith to the Memphis Grizzlies. (Memphis will receive a traded player exception.)

January 13, 2015: Traded Jameer Nelson to the Denver Nuggets for Nate Robinson.

January 15, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, the Boston Celtics traded Austin Rivers to the Los Angeles Clippers; the Los Angeles Clippers traded Chris Douglas-Roberts and a 2017 2nd round draft pick to the Boston Celtics; the Los Angeles Clippers traded Reggie Bullock to the Phoenix Suns; and the Phoenix Suns traded Shavlik Randolph to the Boston Celtics.

January 23, 2015: Signed Andre Dawkins to a 10-day contract.

February 19, 2015: As part of a 3-team trade, the Boston Celtics traded Marcus Thornton and a 2016 1st round draft pick to the Phoenix Suns; the Boston Celtics traded Tayshaun Prince to the Detroit Pistons; the Detroit Pistons traded Gigi Datome and Jonas Jerebko to the Boston Celtics; and the Phoenix Suns traded Isaiah Thomas to the Boston Celtics. (PHO 2016 1st round pick received from BOS is CLE's pick and is top-10 protected.)

Lots of picks in these trades, that will someday be players only then can we truly evaluate them.  The brilliance is that almost all of them helped us slightly or got something for a guy who was no longer in our plans without giving up much.

Yeah that Andre Dawkins pick up was HUGE. I still haven't settled down from the excitement of that move (not to mention I don't know who the hell Andre Dawkins is.)

I could be wrong but I think that this is a list of every move Ainge made over that span of time.

I think the fact that the only bad move you can find is signing a guy to a 10-day contract pretty much confirms that you are wrong in this argument.

Far from it

1.)The Jeff Green trade. As happy as I was to get rid of that bum, all we got was a pick from Memphis. I question how valuable that will be as Memphis is consistently one of the best teams in the NBA. We also had Tayshaun Prince for a cup of coffee, only to trade him to Detroit.

2.)The Brandon Wright deal netted us another worthless pick (people just keep overrating all these mediocre picks that couldn't help us move up 7 spots in this years draft.)

3.)Jameer Nelson for Nate Robinson would didn't play a single game for us. What did that accomplish?

I will admit the Isaiah deal was a good one and I admitted earlier in this thread that the Rondo deal was decent as well.

But the moniker "Trader Danny" is becoming a joke and hardly true. DA has picked up a couple decent players but guys like Jerebko, Crowder and Isaiah are more role players than difference makers.

1. Considering how Green played for Memphis down the stretch, and the fact that he picked up his player option for next year, I'd say that we won that trade (as in, Memphis would probably like to undo it, but we wouldn't).  Of course, it will be hard to tell until that pick conveys, which won't be for a while (possibly long enough that their core will break down.  We'll see)

2.  Honestly, using the Hornets as the benchmark of how valuable something is is ridiculous. Do you honestly want to use the Hornets as the measuring stick for our assets?

3. That deal was purely monetary.  Nelson had a player option for 2015-2016, Nate was expiring.  The deal just made sure that we weren't stuck paying him next year (although he has opted out of his contract, so the trade may not have mattered)

[Celtics4ever]

I read that scientist think there is a new breed of fact resistant people.

cientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.

The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/30219-focus-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans


I think we have found one on our board, ( wink)  perhaps.  Granted the article is satire.

[kraidstar]

I read that scientist think there is a new breed of fact resistant people.

cientists have discovered a powerful new strain of fact-resistant humans who are threatening the ability of Earth to sustain life, a sobering new study reports.

The research, conducted by the University of Minnesota, identifies a virulent strain of humans who are virtually immune to any form of verifiable knowledge, leaving scientists at a loss as to how to combat them.

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,” Davis Logsdon, one of the scientists who contributed to the study, said. “And yet, somehow, they have developed defenses that, for all intents and purposes, have rendered those faculties totally inactive.”

More worryingly, Logsdon said, “As facts have multiplied, their defenses against those facts have only grown more powerful.”

While scientists have no clear understanding of the mechanisms that prevent the fact-resistant humans from absorbing data, they theorize that the strain may have developed the ability to intercept and discard information en route from the auditory nerve to the brain. “The normal functions of human consciousness have been completely nullified,” Logsdon said.

While reaffirming the gloomy assessments of the study, Logsdon held out hope that the threat of fact-resistant humans could be mitigated in the future. “Our research is very preliminary, but it’s possible that they will become more receptive to facts once they are in an environment without food, water, or oxygen,” he said

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/30219-focus-earth-endangered-by-new-strain-of-fact-resistant-humans


I think we have found one on our board, ( wink)  perhaps.  Granted the article is satire.

evolution has stopped due to technology making life easy for everyone, so there's unchecked reproduction. there's a move about it, it's a comedy that's rapidly turning into a documentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8

[Hemingway]

We need to get to the point where any top 10-15 type player could look at us and think, if I went there I could win a title.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this.

Disagreement is not the only type of discussion.

[Scintan]

We need to get to the point where any top 10-15 type player could look at us and think, if I went there I could win a title.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this.

Disagreement is not the only type of discussion.

I never claimed it was.  I pointed out the basic agreement before noting the point about recent history.  Perhaps you could address that part.

[hodgy03038]

I certainly hope that DA goes after Markief Morris. The dude is good and can stretch the floor like the Celts obviously want. He's 6'10". He's 25 years old with a great contract and played in an up-tempo offense. Get him!!