Author Topic: Klynyk vs. Freak  (Read 7345 times)

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Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2015, 03:14:19 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Of course I would rather have Giannis than Olynyk.

But I do think G is overrated - at least right now. People talk about him like he is better than every player on our team combined, but there are no guarantees he gets any better than he is right now.

I would actually not like to be in Milwaukee's shoes with Giannis - they could probably trade him and get a pretty good package, but if he ever developed into a star, then that would be a massive mistake. Conversely, if they hold on to him and he continues to just be 'okay', then they will probably regret not trading him.

This happens all the time - see Greg Monroe as an example of somebody the Pistons could have sold very high on a couple of years ago. Now they are left with nothing.
I would love to be in Milwaukee's shoes.  Giannis at 20 is already an established starter.  There is no reason to believe he won't continue to improve.  Olynyk at 24 hasn't shown himself to be anything more than a decent bench player. 

I don't know why you bring up Monroe.  If the Pistons had offered a max extension or close to it, Monroe would still be a Piston.  The Bucks won't make that mistake with Giannis.
Why can't olynyk improve?

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2015, 03:17:47 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Of course I would rather have Giannis than Olynyk.

But I do think G is overrated - at least right now. People talk about him like he is better than every player on our team combined, but there are no guarantees he gets any better than he is right now.

I would actually not like to be in Milwaukee's shoes with Giannis - they could probably trade him and get a pretty good package, but if he ever developed into a star, then that would be a massive mistake. Conversely, if they hold on to him and he continues to just be 'okay', then they will probably regret not trading him.

This happens all the time - see Greg Monroe as an example of somebody the Pistons could have sold very high on a couple of years ago. Now they are left with nothing.
I would love to be in Milwaukee's shoes.  Giannis at 20 is already an established starter.  There is no reason to believe he won't continue to improve.  Olynyk at 24 hasn't shown himself to be anything more than a decent bench player. 

I don't know why you bring up Monroe.  If the Pistons had offered a max extension or close to it, Monroe would still be a Piston.  The Bucks won't make that mistake with Giannis.

So you think if Giannis remains the same player throughout next year the Bucks will definitely offer him the max? I would not be so sure about that. Monroe had proven to be a very good player, but it appeared he had reached his ceiling and the Pistons took a chance on that.

Giannis is a nice player and clearly a better asset than KO, but he is not a max player - not yet. And of course I would rather be in their shoes - I meant it as an expression - they have a tough decision to make.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2015, 03:29:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Giannis has all the tools to be a very impactful two way player.  He could top out as just a nice player, like Batum, or he could become a Mini Durant.

Kelly's per 36 minutes numbers look nice, but will he ever be able to stay on the floor that long?  A guy with Kelly's lack of strength inside or lateral quickness is hard to play big minutes.  Too many teams are learning to run guys like that off the court.

Giannis, on the other hand, is so tantalizing precisely because of how well he could fit in the modern game.
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Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2015, 03:32:08 PM »

Offline footey

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Kelly is a great under achiever. When he is playing aggressively/confidently, he is a pleasure to watch, a real value added.  Problem is that he just does not seem to have the make up to play that way night in and out. I also think the refs call too many touch fouls on him.  Reminds me of how the used to call everything on Perk early in his career. Hope they slack off a bit this year.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2015, 03:33:17 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Tough topic. Could not imagine how excited we'd all be if we had drafted Giannis. I am fearful Olynyk doesn't improve mitch more.  Every time I get bullish about him he regresses.

Kelly needs to do a lot this year.
Frankly, I don't think people need to worry or fear too much when it comes to KO.  I think he pretty much is what he is and dont see much changing.  So people just need to accept that.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2015, 03:55:28 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Of course I would rather have Giannis than Olynyk.

But I do think G is overrated - at least right now. People talk about him like he is better than every player on our team combined, but there are no guarantees he gets any better than he is right now.

I would actually not like to be in Milwaukee's shoes with Giannis - they could probably trade him and get a pretty good package, but if he ever developed into a star, then that would be a massive mistake. Conversely, if they hold on to him and he continues to just be 'okay', then they will probably regret not trading him.

This happens all the time - see Greg Monroe as an example of somebody the Pistons could have sold very high on a couple of years ago. Now they are left with nothing.
I would love to be in Milwaukee's shoes.  Giannis at 20 is already an established starter.  There is no reason to believe he won't continue to improve.  Olynyk at 24 hasn't shown himself to be anything more than a decent bench player. 

I don't know why you bring up Monroe.  If the Pistons had offered a max extension or close to it, Monroe would still be a Piston.  The Bucks won't make that mistake with Giannis.

So you think if Giannis remains the same player throughout next year the Bucks will definitely offer him the max? I would not be so sure about that. Monroe had proven to be a very good player, but it appeared he had reached his ceiling and the Pistons took a chance on that.

Giannis is a nice player and clearly a better asset than KO, but he is not a max player - not yet. And of course I would rather be in their shoes - I meant it as an expression - they have a tough decision to make.
Giannis is only 20 and he improved significantly in his 2nd season.  Why would he not continue to improve?  He has 2 more years on his rookie contract before he becomes an RFA so the Bucks don't have to offer him max next year.  Look at Jimmy Butler's progression.  He didn't become a starter until his 3rd year and a max player until his 4 year. 

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2015, 04:06:56 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Tough topic. Could not imagine how excited we'd all be if we had drafted Giannis. I am fearful Olynyk doesn't improve mitch more.  Every time I get bullish about him he regresses.

Kelly needs to do a lot this year.
Frankly, I don't think people need to worry or fear too much when it comes to KO.  I think he pretty much is what he is and dont see much changing.  So people just need to accept that.

i hope to god that olynyk (or any competitor) doesn't think the way you do. his problem is confidence, and that is something that can certainly be improved.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2015, 04:09:22 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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7 footers take longer to develop.  I think this is fairly well documented.
The ways that Olynyk can improve are all related to confidence and skill rather than athleticism.

Olynyk is already a pretty good shooter from range, if he can sharpen his shooting skills, I don't see why he can't be a threat from range.  He is the typical 'stretch 4' which is becoming more valuable in today's NBA.  Once KO develops the confidence and aggression to play his game in his role, he can turn into a good player for us.

KO's improvements have been incremental, but those add up.
His overall FG% increased by from .466 to .475, his 3PT% stayed about the same .351 to .349, and his eFG% bumped up from .506 to .533.  This reflects the fact that he was making more 3 point shots overall while still bumping up his shooting accuracy.

Consider this statistic about eFG, if KO qualified, with .533 eFG he would have been the 19th best shooter in the NBA in terms of eFG, just behind Lebron James and just ahead of Kyrie Irving.
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nba/stats/player-effective-field-goal-leaders/2014/

And if KO continues to improve incrementally to say a .550 eFG in 2015, that would put him in the top 10 player in the NBA eFG leaders of 2014, just behind ... Klay Thompson.

KO a top 10 or top 20 player in the entire NBA?  No way right?  But in terms of scoring efficiency, KO doesn't need to jump higher or run faster.  What he needs to do is just shoot the ball better.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2015, 09:44:22 AM »

Offline brundlenye the sciencefly

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FWIW, here's an article about KO going to Utah to get some extra reps in with the team (idk if someone else has posted yet): http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2015/07/kelly_olynyk_flies_to_utah_wit.html

Glad to hear he's working on his mobility/defense.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2015, 09:50:15 AM »

Offline footey

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I don't have the stats, but what really struck me was how badly his free throw percentage declined during the season.  Career-wise, I recall he had a good free throw shooting percentage, both in college and his first year plus in the NBA. But when he started slumping, it manifested in his free throws, which to me indicated how mental his issues were last season (not forgetting the injuries, of course).

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2015, 10:01:22 AM »

Offline brundlenye the sciencefly

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I don't have the stats, but what really struck me was how badly his free throw percentage declined during the season.  Career-wise, I recall he had a good free throw shooting percentage, both in college and his first year plus in the NBA. But when he started slumping, it manifested in his free throws, which to me indicated how mental his issues were last season (not forgetting the injuries, of course).

According to basketball reference, his FT% during 3 years @ gonzaga were .596, .618, & .776 respectively. 2 seasons in Boston are .811 and .684 resp. :)

What you're saying about his FT% this past season being indicative of the level of his mindset makes a lot of sense... I'm optimistic he'll overcome because 1)his work ethic/desire to get better 2) CBS knows how to develop players. But we'll see I guess.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2015, 10:04:25 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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For all the negative things you can say about Kelly, if you are a person who likes RPM, he rates as a pretty valuable player by that metric.  Not sure what to make of that myself.
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Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2015, 10:07:05 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Why can't olynyk improve?
  Athletically he has a pretty poor base.   He is already skilled somewhat but skills can always improve some.   I think the area he needs to improve in the most is toughness and believing in his game and self.   That is where he needs and could use the most improvement.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2015, 10:07:08 AM »

Offline HomerSapien

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KO vs. Gianni's really isn't worth debating. Gianni's is, and will be a more valuable NBA player for the foreseeable future.

Kelly vs. Sully on the other hand, is an important question the Celtics need to answer since I'm guessing one of them is not long for this team. Given the roster spot crunch. I fear we end up salary dumping one of them for a protected 1st, or a 2nd.

Re: Klynyk vs. Freak
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2015, 10:20:40 AM »

Offline footey

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I don't have the stats, but what really struck me was how badly his free throw percentage declined during the season.  Career-wise, I recall he had a good free throw shooting percentage, both in college and his first year plus in the NBA. But when he started slumping, it manifested in his free throws, which to me indicated how mental his issues were last season (not forgetting the injuries, of course).

According to basketball reference, his FT% during 3 years @ gonzaga were .596, .618, & .776 respectively. 2 seasons in Boston are .811 and .684 resp. :)

What you're saying about his FT% this past season being indicative of the level of his mindset makes a lot of sense... I'm optimistic he'll overcome because 1)his work ethic/desire to get better 2) CBS knows how to develop players. But we'll see I guess.

Thanks. I bet that if you look at his FT% last season, comparing the first couple of months with the balance, you will see a precipitous decline.