This looks like a lotto squad to me

[pokeKingCurtis]

The team looked like a lottery squad last year.

But something happened on the way to tanksville.

Team play is a new paradigm for many to comprehend.

The Celtics are rediscovering their legacy and going retro.

This year will be better than last year.

Their "legacy" is to have a bunch of bench players barely making the playoffs in a terrible conference? You do realize that the Celtics have the most HOFers of any franchise right? That most of them were high lotto picks?

He is referring to playing hard, as a team and getting the most out of their talent.

This team is extremely young, and building. Last year they barely made the playoffs, this year they will be better than that and the year after that they will be better than that.

Where's all of the improvement coming from?

Are you expecting huge leaps forward over the next two years from Smart and Young?  Are you hoping for Rozier, Hunter, or Mickey to turn into above average starters?

Um....yes.

No hope allowed!

[Rondo9]

The team looked like a lottery squad last year.

But something happened on the way to tanksville.

Team play is a new paradigm for many to comprehend.

The Celtics are rediscovering their legacy and going retro.

This year will be better than last year.

Their "legacy" is to have a bunch of bench players barely making the playoffs in a terrible conference? You do realize that the Celtics have the most HOFers of any franchise right? That most of them were high lotto picks?

He is referring to playing hard, as a team and getting the most out of their talent.

This team is extremely young, and building. Last year they barely made the playoffs, this year they will be better than that and the year after that they will be better than that.

Where's all of the improvement coming from?

Are you expecting huge leaps forward over the next two years from Smart and Young?  Are you hoping for Rozier, Hunter, or Mickey to turn into above average starters?

Um....yes.

I don't expect Anthony Davis like improvements, but I expect modest improvements from the youngsters this year.

[Eja117]

This whole "Marcus Smart and James Young won't improve" stuff is absolutely hilarious. I guess the idea is that they sat around on their couches and played video games all off season.  In fact even in that scenario I might still expect them to be improved.

[footey]

I'm not optimistic Smart will ever put up good offensive numbers. I feel he lacks the athleticism to be that guy in the NBA. Frankly see more upside in Rozier.

[Scintan]

Trivia....name all the players drafted by the Orlando Magic since 1994 that have become all stars and that never played a minute in the NBA. There is one of each.

Thanks for helping to illustrate the point how unlikely it is that these scrubs we took in the draft this year will amount to squat. 

Like I said, we swapped out Bass with Amir and added some depth to the Red Claws.  Unless we get some major progress from the mediocre youth, or pull off a miracle trade, I see this is a lotto squad.   Lots of teams behind us have made progress.  Is that to say that every... single... team... will improve?  No, of course not.   But Boston made the playoffs with a losing record.  I'm skeptical it happens again.

Right, but it's unlikely for any scrubs in any draft to amount to all star status.

I'll take scrubs drafted by Ainge and coached by CBS over the scrubs drafted by and coached by anyone else any day of the week.

What you basically did was take a couple of bad teams and show why they are bad teams.  That's all you really proved.  Teams that miss with their draft picks continue to struggle.  That isn't news to anyone.

[Eja117]

Trivia....name all the players drafted by the Orlando Magic since 1994 that have become all stars and that never played a minute in the NBA. There is one of each.

Thanks for helping to illustrate the point how unlikely it is that these scrubs we took in the draft this year will amount to squat. 

Like I said, we swapped out Bass with Amir and added some depth to the Red Claws.  Unless we get some major progress from the mediocre youth, or pull off a miracle trade, I see this is a lotto squad.   Lots of teams behind us have made progress.  Is that to say that every... single... team... will improve?  No, of course not.   But Boston made the playoffs with a losing record.  I'm skeptical it happens again.

Right, but it's unlikely for any scrubs in any draft to amount to all star status.

I'll take scrubs drafted by Ainge and coached by CBS over the scrubs drafted by and coached by anyone else any day of the week.

What you basically did was take a couple of bad teams and show why they are bad teams.  That's all you really proved.  Teams that miss with their draft picks continue to struggle.  That isn't news to anyone.

True. I think the Bulls picked 4 all stars during that time period and are a good team with absolutely nothing to show for it. Interesting that you call the Spurs a bad team. I did pick the Lakers that I think won a ring or two during that time.

[Scintan]

Trivia....name all the players drafted by the Orlando Magic since 1994 that have become all stars and that never played a minute in the NBA. There is one of each.

Thanks for helping to illustrate the point how unlikely it is that these scrubs we took in the draft this year will amount to squat. 

Like I said, we swapped out Bass with Amir and added some depth to the Red Claws.  Unless we get some major progress from the mediocre youth, or pull off a miracle trade, I see this is a lotto squad.   Lots of teams behind us have made progress.  Is that to say that every... single... team... will improve?  No, of course not.   But Boston made the playoffs with a losing record.  I'm skeptical it happens again.

Right, but it's unlikely for any scrubs in any draft to amount to all star status.

I'll take scrubs drafted by Ainge and coached by CBS over the scrubs drafted by and coached by anyone else any day of the week.

What you basically did was take a couple of bad teams and show why they are bad teams.  That's all you really proved.  Teams that miss with their draft picks continue to struggle.  That isn't news to anyone.

True. I think the Bulls picked 4 all stars during that time period and are a good team with absolutely nothing to show for it. Interesting that you call the Spurs a bad team. I did pick the Lakers that I think won a ring or two during that time.

I didn't call the Spurs a bad team.  I made an observation about what you were basically doing.  Here's an obvious example which gets to the bottom line:

If you suck, and you want to not suck, don't draft Olowokandi when guys like Nowitski, Pierce, Carter, Jamison and Bibby are on the board.

[sawick48]

i don't get the point of going back and forth on this anymore.  it started before free agency and has continued to here.  evvvvvverybody believed we would make a big trade up in the draft and make a huge splash.  there was a small, vocal group of others who believed otherwise and were battled every step of the way for their belief as to why.  that group was right.

evvvvvverybody believed boston would be a destination for at least one elite level free agent, and that the idea that elite free agents have never come here before was simply because the C's never have had cap room, and not because Boston isn't an appealing city or team.  there was a small, vocal group of others who believed otherwise and were battled every step of the way for their belief as to why.  that group was right.

and now evvvvverbody seems to think we're a lock for a playoff team and we have all these players that are just going to develop into assets and that despite not having a single superstar, that chemistry, team play, and development will rule the day and carry Boston to (i've seen as many as) 52 wins, or at least a marked improvement over last year. there's been a small, vocal group of others who believe otherwise and are battled every step of the way for their belief as to why..........wonder what'll happen

to be fair you have listed just 2 arguments. One of which you were completely right on. good job.

For the FA's, Im assuming you are in the group thinking Boston is not desirable as a location and NYK and LA will get all the FA's. I love how you modified the argument to desirable city or team. The team part is a new part of this argument. From the way I saw it. I havent looked at your old posts, so if youve actually been making that argument then good on you.

Monroe to Milwakee
Harris resigned
Aldridge to San Antonio
Love resigned (in Cleveland BTW)
Jordan to Dallas(thats a big city but he left LA)

LA got... Lou Williams
NYK got... Robin Lopez and Kyle OQuinn

it's been a mixture of team and appeal of the city in regards to my arguments.  and while i'll admit i was surprised that LA wasn't able to land any of the big names (probably most surprised that Love reupped in Clev so quickly rather than at least giving the Lakers some hope he'd go there) facts are facts.  we don't have whatever it is anyone on the market wants.  they want a city with great night life, great players, and title/playoff hopes and possibilities. 

while we certainly have an outstanding coach, the closest team/city in terms of overall attributes to us is Milwaukee.  They were able to get Monroe which has to be considered in and of itself a bit of a surprise, but in this offseason there's no player in the world that would have chosen our team over Milwaukee's if the money was the same. 

the biggest argument from me has been that all we did was basically hit the reset button on a 38 win team, and if anything tried to imrpove the roster but only minimally (because the big moves just weren't available for us to make).  once we knew we were out on the big name FAs, which we should have known very early, we should have called Sacto to make that trade Philly made and actively pursued getting worse.  tough to pill to swallow but it's the only route we have right now to acquiring a superstar which is what you need in place to land those big name FAs we covet.  I still say we're a 35 win team this season, but that's because Danny actually tried to improve on last year's 38 win output instead of stepping back and assessing the best way for us to improve over the long term, which would have been to try and get worse talent in the short term (i.e. Landry and Thompson, in which we could have still retained Crowder, instead of getting a big like Amir, who's a better version of Bass.  aka a lateral move).

[sawick48]

i don't get the point of going back and forth on this anymore.  it started before free agency and has continued to here.  evvvvvverybody believed we would make a big trade up in the draft and make a huge splash.  there was a small, vocal group of others who believed otherwise and were battled every step of the way for their belief as to why.  that group was right.

evvvvvverybody believed boston would be a destination for at least one elite level free agent, and that the idea that elite free agents have never come here before was simply because the C's never have had cap room, and not because Boston isn't an appealing city or team.  there was a small, vocal group of others who believed otherwise and were battled every step of the way for their belief as to why.  that group was right.

and now evvvvverbody seems to think we're a lock for a playoff team and we have all these players that are just going to develop into assets and that despite not having a single superstar, that chemistry, team play, and development will rule the day and carry Boston to (i've seen as many as) 52 wins, or at least a marked improvement over last year. there's been a small, vocal group of others who believe otherwise and are battled every step of the way for their belief as to why..........wonder what'll happen

You must enjoy everytime you are right about something.

have only been wrong a single time in my life and that was when i doubted myself 

but it's not me trying to gloat, it's fact.  it's what's happened to every major discussion point on these boards thus far in the summer.

You must be very young then.

just sarcasm.  but for me, a 28 year old attorney.  not ancient, but certainly not young.  and have followed this team since i've had cogniscent thought.  cheered just as loud for a 'no-wheels-left-Larry' and Dino Radja as i did for the recent big 3

[Celtics4ever]

This whole "Marcus Smart and James Young won't improve" stuff is absolutely hilarious. I guess the idea is that they sat around on their couches and played video games all off season.  In fact even in that scenario I might still expect them to be improved.

I think they will improve, but I have concerns about our bigs improving.   Sully did not improve last year and I doubt even an in shape Sully will be capable of NBA defense.   Oly and Sully have skills when they came into the league but their potential is finite because of their limited athletic potential.   Likewise, I do not think Zeller will take a giant leap.   I would love to be wrong on this one.   But I just do not see our bigs improving a lot.   I do thinking bringing back Jonas will help and adding Amir.   Both are credible defenders who can hit the three so that will help but as far as big development, Eja, I have my doubts.

[greenrunsdeep41]

i don't get the point of going back and forth on this anymore.  it started before free agency and has continued to here.  evvvvvverybody believed we would make a big trade up in the draft and make a huge splash.  there was a small, vocal group of others who believed otherwise and were battled every step of the way for their belief as to why.  that group was right.

evvvvvverybody believed boston would be a destination for at least one elite level free agent, and that the idea that elite free agents have never come here before was simply because the C's never have had cap room, and not because Boston isn't an appealing city or team.  there was a small, vocal group of others who believed otherwise and were battled every step of the way for their belief as to why.  that group was right.

and now evvvvverbody seems to think we're a lock for a playoff team and we have all these players that are just going to develop into assets and that despite not having a single superstar, that chemistry, team play, and development will rule the day and carry Boston to (i've seen as many as) 52 wins, or at least a marked improvement over last year. there's been a small, vocal group of others who believe otherwise and are battled every step of the way for their belief as to why..........wonder what'll happen

You must enjoy everytime you are right about something.

This literally does not make any sense. You're grouping all these people who most likely were not constant with all of these mindsets into one group that coincides with your mentality. You're essentially saying that there is a group of people that all consistently said elite level free agents wouldn't come here, who also said, we would make a big trade, and all are now saying we will be successful this season. Who are these people? I think you're just saying you're always right, and because you thought something, and it happened you're entitled to knowing what the future holds.

The Celtics are young. Their players will improve just based on the fact that, that is what happens to young people. If they work, they get better. Does that mean we are going to have a better win loss record then last season? No, it does not, that depends on a lot of variables. Such as injury, and other team's young player development.

It comes down to the fact that we have a solid coach, we have a core group of guys who all play hard and scrappy. If we can build a winning culture and these players start to believe themselves to be on the same level as other quality teams, we will start winning games.

But I am sorry to tell you that just because you were right two times does not mean that you will be and are always right. And its even more ridiculous that you believe that it gives you the ability to predict the future and ignore logic.

[gpap]

I like to be realistic, but dear god, the pessimism on this board lately is insane. I actually really like our offseason moves (kill me?). Hopefully some trades come but I'm honestly okay with being a fringe playoff team. Next summer is showtime, if Danny has done nothing by this time next year, I'll jump on the pessimism train, for now, I'm excited for the season.

I'd get on the pessimism train now to save yourself some time. If he hasn't done anything this summer, he won't do jack next summer unless the team does so awful this year that ends up with a top 5 pick and he deals it for a disgruntled star like Cousins or Melo.

Other than that, don't hold your breath. I've learned my lesson.

[Greenback]

In the NBA, one or two players can make a big difference on a team.

Hells bells, little IT made a big difference last year.

Mickey is a big and could help out the front line.  Also, J Homes has potential to make a difference, if he sticks.  Amir will help.

Rozier is faster than hell.  Thornton is faster than that. Hunter can shoot the lights out.

Then, there are possible trades.

Does anyone really think that Brad Stevens is not going to get better? 

The Celtics will be better than last year.

SMH

[gpap]

I'm a pessimist.

  To me that means your a realist.

Danny is to blame right now for keeping us in this horrible position. Signing Amir right now makes ZERO sense and I think PhoSita said it best - this team is a team of assets that Danny is putting his career on the line praying to make a big trade. Unfortunately he has picked the worse time NBA history to do this. With the cap going up so much in the future no team will need to dump players to position themselves. Every team will believe that next summer they have a chance to land the best free agents. I fully expect that plan to crash and burn, so Danny better hope we land a good draft pick next year.

   

The only place his career is on the line is in the fantasies of some posters.   He has won a championship that buys a lot of good will.  I think the owners are absolutely behind him after that.   

http://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/aingeda01x.html

Most of his deals we came out ahead folks.

The trouble is with a rebuild is that you have to land a franchise talent when you tank.   I am not sure we did that with Smart.   But I hope I am wrong in that regard and that does not mean he is not going to become a good player.

BOTTOM IS THIS:   We would be in even worse shape if we didn't have Ainge.   Ainge traded PP and KG, most would not have done that.   With picks we at least have the chance of landing a player.   I lived through several rebuilds, they are rough.   Quick fixes generally do not work, 2008 was a rare thing orchestrated by Ainge.

I think Ainge learned not to reach for some of the slow unathletic guys like Sully and Oly and he did not do that this draft.  Talent is what a guy is born with, skilled guys are ok as a final element to a team but you do not always build around them.   Athletes can in the long run learn skills and an athletes with skills will generally trump a skill guy who is not athletic.

I think draft night showed us how "valuable" our picks are.

[PhoSita]

"We would be worse off with a total moron" is not a valid reason for not criticizing what Ainge's strategy appears to be.