i was absolutely fine with our moves so far....

[saltlover]

Give Hinkie credit, that trade is a gem.  On par with how Ainge used the Pierce TPE to add Zeller.  Might end up better.

it depends on what staukas does, but yes...  I'm actually in a state of shock at how brutally we have botched this offseason so far. I don't even want to believe it.  I'm in denial right now. This can't be it.   Philly is hitting home runs and we aren't even on the field right now.  We are in the concession stands sticking our heads in the churro fryer.

I like the moves we've made but I have to agree, this is a bizarrely underwhelming offseason.  The team did finish strong in the regular season, so bringing back that crew with Amir instead of Bass and filling out the bench with the rookies isn't crazy.  But it sure looks like Ainge didn't have any serious plans to do anything more than that.

Given what the cap increases are going to mean, this seems like a horrible missed opportunity.  We're not as bad off as the Kings, Lakers or Knicks but as Hinkie committed totally to the draft, Ainge is betting everything on making some major trades in the future.  If nothing else, we're going to be buried under an avalanche of picks in the next few years.

Mike

I think Ainge had plans to do more, but it was clear pretty quickly that Aldridge wanted to stay out West, and then Love re-signed with Cleveland.  He didn't make any moves until a lot of players were off the market.  I don't know if he didn't have interest in Jordan or Jordan didn't have interest in the Celtics, but that's about the only move I'm somewhat disappointed that he didn't seem in on/wait to shake out.

As it stands we have a better team than last year, with Johnson an upgrade on Bass.  At the end of the bench, Rozier is better than Pressey, Hunter no worse than Datome, and Mickey can take Babb's ceremonial role.  Our team is still very young, which means performance increases from several players would not be unexpected, and Stevens will have a lot more continuity this year, which should help from a coaching perspective.

And we have $30 million in expiring/non-guaranteed contracts, as well as a host of young players and picks to trade should that opportunity arise.  I'm sure it's not the path Ainge would have preferred, but he's done a good job at keeping it open should it appear, while making incremental improvements to a team that showed it was worth keeping last year.

[BDeCosta26]

It was fine considering their stage of the rebuild process, but I doubt the pick swaps actually help them right?
So they essentially got Stauskas and what could be a good first rounder in 2018 for taking back some junk.
I don't think we're  in a position to take back bums like Landry and Thompson with our roster while we already have Wallace.
Nice move by hinkie but Ainge didn't miss out on anything here.

If you think the 76ers will continue to suck like a Hoover for the next couple of years, it lessens the import of the switch.  If you think the 76ers will be improving, the switch of picks becomes more significant.

I don't expect the 76ers to suck like a Hoover all the way through 2018.

I expect them to at least through 2017. Those pick swaps are almost meaningless. Philly will probably be a bottom 5 team this year and likely next year, while Sacto probably won't be much better, they'll probably be better than bottom 5. That 2018 pick could be good though. What are the protections?

[loco_91]

Just clarifying the actual terms of the deal because I was confused, and it is confusing. As best I can tell:

-Sac owes CHI their first round pick, top 10 protected, in 2016. If it does not convey, ie is in the top 10, then the Sixers can swap. If it does convey, then ditto for 2017. So the pick-swaps are essentially unprotected, as the Sixers won't be outside the top ten anyway.
-The "2018" pick is 2 years after Sac's obligation to CHI expires. I'm not sure exactly the terms of the latter; sounds like this is actually a 2019 pick assuming that Sac is bottom-10 next year. This pick is top-10 protected, so it might not actually convey until like 2020 (not sure if it continues to be protected, converts into 2nd rounders, or what).
-Sixers are sending rights a couple of overseas players they drafted in the 2nd round.

This is an extremely good deal for the Sixers. Kings could implode if Rondo+Cousins+Karl dynamic is bad, which it probably will be. Potential lottery reform would make this trade even better, and it also frees the Sixers to stop tanking and still get top-5 picks.

[saltlover]

It was fine considering their stage of the rebuild process, but I doubt the pick swaps actually help them right?
So they essentially got Stauskas and what could be a good first rounder in 2018 for taking back some junk.
I don't think we're  in a position to take back bums like Landry and Thompson with our roster while we already have Wallace.
Nice move by hinkie but Ainge didn't miss out on anything here.

If you think the 76ers will continue to suck like a Hoover for the next couple of years, it lessens the import of the switch.  If you think the 76ers will be improving, the switch of picks becomes more significant.

I don't expect the 76ers to suck like a Hoover all the way through 2018.

I expect them to at least through 2017. Those pick swaps are almost meaningless. Philly will probably be a bottom 5 team this year and likely next year, while Sacto probably won't be much better, they'll probably be better than bottom 5. That 2018 pick could be good though. What are the protections?

The Kings owe a top 10 protected pick to Chicago through 2017.  The pick to Philly is top 10 protected beginning two years after they either give a pick to Chicago or that debt expires.  So if you think the Kings will pick outside the top 10 this year (in which case the Philly swap is moot) then top 10 protected beginning in 2018.  If the Kings get a top 10 pick this year, then its a top 10 protected pick beginning in 2019.

Nice, but nothing special, and I'm okay this didn't happen.  It also means the price on Wallace is still probably no more than Rozier or a lottery-protected 1st, if we need to create space in the next week.

[goCeltics]

Ainge has put us in the middle excatly the worst position you can be, can't understand the enthusiasm for mediocrity

the cap is going up by 40 to 50 million the next two years, this year was our opportunity to sign some guys with upside and he layed an egg

[tazzmaniac]

Just clarifying the actual terms of the deal because I was confused, and it is confusing. As best I can tell:

-Sac owes CHI their first round pick, top 10 protected, in 2016. If it does not convey, ie is in the top 10, then the Sixers can swap. If it does convey, then ditto for 2017. So the pick-swaps are essentially unprotected, as the Sixers won't be outside the top ten anyway.
-The "2018" pick is 2 years after Sac's obligation to CHI expires. I'm not sure exactly the terms of the latter; sounds like this is actually a 2019 pick assuming that Sac is bottom-10 next year. This pick is top-10 protected, so it might not actually convey until like 2020 (not sure if it continues to be protected, converts into 2nd rounders, or what).
-Sixers are sending rights a couple of overseas players they drafted in the 2nd round.

This is an extremely good deal for the Sixers. Kings could implode if Rondo+Cousins+Karl dynamic is bad, which it probably will be. Potential lottery reform would make this trade even better, and it also frees the Sixers to stop tanking and still get top-5 picks.

According to how the trade has been reported if things go really bad for the Kings, a Kings ping pong ball could win both the 2016 and 2017 lotteries and the Sixers would get both #1 picks.  They would be pick swaps so the Kings might only drop to 5th or 6th but that is still a significant loss.  Remember the Hawks finished with the 2nd best record this year but almost ended up with a lottery pick because of the pick swap with the Nets. 

Regarding the 2018 protected pick, the Stepian rule applies.  If Sacramento's pick goes to Chicago in 2016 or it doesn't go to Chicago at all (i.e. they get the 2017 Kings 2nd rounder instead), Philly could get the Kings pick in 2018.  If the Sacramento pick goes to Chicago in 2017, Philly can't get the Kings pick until 2019.  It has not been reported how long the pick Philly is getting from the Kings stays protected.  After a few years, it probably converts to one or two 2nd rounders. 

[tazzmaniac]

It was fine considering their stage of the rebuild process, but I doubt the pick swaps actually help them right?
So they essentially got Stauskas and what could be a good first rounder in 2018 for taking back some junk.
I don't think we're  in a position to take back bums like Landry and Thompson with our roster while we already have Wallace.
Nice move by hinkie but Ainge didn't miss out on anything here.

If you think the 76ers will continue to suck like a Hoover for the next couple of years, it lessens the import of the switch.  If you think the 76ers will be improving, the switch of picks becomes more significant.

I don't expect the 76ers to suck like a Hoover all the way through 2018.

I expect them to at least through 2017. Those pick swaps are almost meaningless. Philly will probably be a bottom 5 team this year and likely next year, while Sacto probably won't be much better, they'll probably be better than bottom 5. That 2018 pick could be good though. What are the protections?

The Kings owe a top 10 protected pick to Chicago through 2017.  The pick to Philly is top 10 protected beginning two years after they either give a pick to Chicago or that debt expires.  So if you think the Kings will pick outside the top 10 this year (in which case the Philly swap is moot) then top 10 protected beginning in 2018.  If the Kings get a top 10 pick this year, then its a top 10 protected pick beginning in 2019.

Nice, but nothing special, and I'm okay this didn't happen.  It also means the price on Wallace is still probably no more than Rozier or a lottery-protected 1st, if we need to create space in the next week.

If Chicago gets the pick in 2016, Philly can still potentially swap picks in 2017.  Do you really think the Kings are going to finish outside the top 10 both years?  Getting a top 10 protected pick from the Kings is a good asset.  The Kings are very unlikely to become one of the top teams so if the pick does convey it will probably be late lottery/mid 1st.   

[littleteapot]

If Philly is offering a right to swap picks in future years then they are at the very least PLANNING to be good in those years.

[saltlover]

It was fine considering their stage of the rebuild process, but I doubt the pick swaps actually help them right?
So they essentially got Stauskas and what could be a good first rounder in 2018 for taking back some junk.
I don't think we're  in a position to take back bums like Landry and Thompson with our roster while we already have Wallace.
Nice move by hinkie but Ainge didn't miss out on anything here.

If you think the 76ers will continue to suck like a Hoover for the next couple of years, it lessens the import of the switch.  If you think the 76ers will be improving, the switch of picks becomes more significant.

I don't expect the 76ers to suck like a Hoover all the way through 2018.

I expect them to at least through 2017. Those pick swaps are almost meaningless. Philly will probably be a bottom 5 team this year and likely next year, while Sacto probably won't be much better, they'll probably be better than bottom 5. That 2018 pick could be good though. What are the protections?

The Kings owe a top 10 protected pick to Chicago through 2017.  The pick to Philly is top 10 protected beginning two years after they either give a pick to Chicago or that debt expires.  So if you think the Kings will pick outside the top 10 this year (in which case the Philly swap is moot) then top 10 protected beginning in 2018.  If the Kings get a top 10 pick this year, then its a top 10 protected pick beginning in 2019.

Nice, but nothing special, and I'm okay this didn't happen.  It also means the price on Wallace is still probably no more than Rozier or a lottery-protected 1st, if we need to create space in the next week.

If Chicago gets the pick in 2016, Philly can still potentially swap picks in 2017.  Do you really think the Kings are going to finish outside the top 10 both years?  Getting a top 10 protected pick from the Kings is a good asset.  The Kings are very unlikely to become one of the top teams so if the pick does convey it will probably be late lottery/mid 1st.

If the Kings are good enough next year to to finish outside the top 10, I'd be surprised if Philly could catch them in 2017, considering that most of the Kings core would be under long-term contracts  extending through 2017, and Philly is still acquiring dead salary for next year in full-on tank mode.

The value, as Roy pointed out in some thread, is largely if the Kings finish in the lottery and get luckier than the Sixers.  The odds of that happening are pretty low.  Not zero, and thus worth considering in the probabilistic universe in which we live, but practically speaking is unlikely to provide much value.

[littleteapot]

If the Kings are good enough next year to to finish outside the top 10, I'd be surprised if Philly could catch them in 2017, considering that most of the Kings core would be under long-term contracts  extending through 2017, and Philly is still acquiring dead salary for next year in full-on tank mode.

The value, as Roy pointed out in some thread, is largely if the Kings finish in the lottery and get luckier than the Sixers.  The odds of that happening are pretty low.  Not zero, and thus worth considering in the probabilistic universe in which we live, but practically speaking is unlikely to provide much value.

That makes it a great deal. The 6ers basically have an insurance policy on this deal, and if their young prospects happen to explode and they get good ahead of schedule, then they end up in an amazing situation for the short and long-term.

[hwangjini_1]

yes, i give kinkie credit and scratch my head at sac. i can see the motives of each side, but i dont believe, based upon sac's front office behavior, that it will pan out for sac.

but we shall see.

it does remind me of ainge's deal with the nets. a gamble worth taking.

[Cman]

I think you just gotta give credit where it is due. Philly pulled off a heist.
If you are gonna criticize Ainge, then you also have to criticize every other team with cap space that could have done the same, but didn't.

[sawick48]

I think you just gotta give credit where it is due. Philly pulled off a heist.
If you are gonna criticize Ainge, then you also have to criticize every other team with cap space that could have done the same, but didn't.

not totally unfair, but you're a little off.  first of all the differences between us and Philly weren't that many.  secondly to pull the trade off it would have had to be a team with enough capspace, most likely in the east (that excludes the entire West, also Cleveland, Miami, Charlotte, Chicago, Washington, Brooklyn), who isn't currently hot on the heels of remaining big name free agents (excludes NY, Milwaukee, Atlanta) who is self aware enough to realize they can't compete for the conference title and has little to gain by actively trying to get worse (i.e they already have a young superstar or core and are trying to improve for the sake of the GM's/coach's/front office's jobs.  excludes  Orlando and Detroit).

so in reality, there was probably only 2 teams that could have realistically gotten this deal done.  One did. the other seems obsessed with taking a group of overachieving mid level talent all the way to 42 wins, aka basketball purgatory.

[sawick48]

It was fine considering their stage of the rebuild process, but I doubt the pick swaps actually help them right?
So they essentially got Stauskas and what could be a good first rounder in 2018 for taking back some junk.
I don't think we're  in a position to take back bums like Landry and Thompson with our roster while we already have Wallace.
Nice move by hinkie but Ainge didn't miss out on anything here.

If you think the 76ers will continue to suck like a Hoover for the next couple of years, it lessens the import of the switch.  If you think the 76ers will be improving, the switch of picks becomes more significant.

I don't expect the 76ers to suck like a Hoover all the way through 2018.

I expect them to at least through 2017. Those pick swaps are almost meaningless. Philly will probably be a bottom 5 team this year and likely next year, while Sacto probably won't be much better, they'll probably be better than bottom 5. That 2018 pick could be good though. What are the protections?

The Kings owe a top 10 protected pick to Chicago through 2017.  The pick to Philly is top 10 protected beginning two years after they either give a pick to Chicago or that debt expires.  So if you think the Kings will pick outside the top 10 this year (in which case the Philly swap is moot) then top 10 protected beginning in 2018.  If the Kings get a top 10 pick this year, then its a top 10 protected pick beginning in 2019.

Nice, but nothing special, and I'm okay this didn't happen.  It also means the price on Wallace is still probably no more than Rozier or a lottery-protected 1st, if we need to create space in the next week.

If Chicago gets the pick in 2016, Philly can still potentially swap picks in 2017.  Do you really think the Kings are going to finish outside the top 10 both years?  Getting a top 10 protected pick from the Kings is a good asset.  The Kings are very unlikely to become one of the top teams so if the pick does convey it will probably be late lottery/mid 1st.

you realize this is the Kings right?  a team that not only traded away picks to go after the likes of Rondo and Monta Ellis, but a team that also just settled on it's 4th(!) top basketball decision maker in the past 12 months

[BDeCosta26]

If the Kings are good enough next year to to finish outside the top 10, I'd be surprised if Philly could catch them in 2017, considering that most of the Kings core would be under long-term contracts  extending through 2017, and Philly is still acquiring dead salary for next year in full-on tank mode.

The value, as Roy pointed out in some thread, is largely if the Kings finish in the lottery and get luckier than the Sixers.  The odds of that happening are pretty low.  Not zero, and thus worth considering in the probabilistic universe in which we live, but practically speaking is unlikely to provide much value.

That makes it a great deal. The 6ers basically have an insurance policy on this deal, and if their young prospects happen to explode and they get good ahead of schedule, then they end up in an amazing situation for the short and long-term.

TP salt lover for clearing that up.

Seems like a decent trade for Philly. Not as good as DA's Brooklyn deal, but there were different dynamics there. Of course, as our own fans poo-poo the Brooklyn picks they laud the Sixers getting a protected 1st and a .01% chance the Kings win the lottery and they take the pick, but it's still a good deal for them.

They're not in a rush because they're gonna suck anyways, but the Sixers are gonna have to make a move with at least one of their bigs. Noel, Okafor and Embiid aren't gonna be able to play together, especially if they ever get a legit PG. Something's gotta give. I wonder who has a glut of young guards...?