Author Topic: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler  (Read 19089 times)

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Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2015, 03:14:46 PM »

Offline mef730

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https://twitter.com/CelticsFanHub

People, please stop using this source as a reporter. They have no insight, they get actual reports from twitter and twist their meanings.

Thank you.

What are the chances that, if we asked somebody there what their source was, they'd link back to CB? ;)

Mike

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2015, 03:14:50 PM »

Offline walker834

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Who else here is trying to get themselves excited about Harris?

Watching highlights and breakdowns... he looks to me like a less athletic Jeff Green. As a scorer he seems like a very similar player-- you guys who have been following him more closely, how does the comparison strike you?

The big differences would be (1) he's a more active rebounder than Green has ever been, and (2) as everyone loves to point out he's only 22 years old.

Abstractly speaking, if you had a guy who could give you prime 28yo Jeff Green's game and production in a 22yo body, how much is that worth?

It makes me wonder why we traded Jeff Green who was making less money.

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2015, 03:16:16 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Who else here is trying to get themselves excited about Harris?

Watching highlights and breakdowns... he looks to me like a less athletic Jeff Green. As a scorer he seems like a very similar player-- you guys who have been following him more closely, how does the comparison strike you?

The big differences would be (1) he's a more active rebounder than Green has ever been, and (2) as everyone loves to point out he's only 22 years old.

Abstractly speaking, if you had a guy who could give you prime 28yo Jeff Green's game and production in a 22yo body, how much is that worth?

He seems more aggressive and like he has more of an in between game than Jeff.  My sense of Harris is that he can operate much better in the halfcourt, and with greater assertiveness, than Green.
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Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #93 on: July 01, 2015, 03:16:20 PM »

Offline Soytiz

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This may well be a case of beggars can't be choosers. If this is indeed the case, offering Harris a $15M per offer may not be so bad considering that some have favorably compared him to Rudy Gay.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 03:48:13 PM by Soytiz »

Re: Washburn: Magic won't match max offer to Tobias Harris
« Reply #94 on: July 01, 2015, 03:17:09 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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Giving max money to non-max players is a mistake.  I know he is young, and has decent numbers, but what impact does he have on winning?

But you have to define what a max contract is.  Just estimating the numbers, it will be about $16 mil for Harris this season.  For an older veteran, it is about $22m.  With the salary cap going up to $89m next year, it will be about $20m for a young guy and $28m for an older guy.  In 2017, with the cap going up to $108m, it will be about about $25m for a young guy and $34m for an older guy, meanwhile Harris will be locked in at around $17m that year. 

If Harris improves at all, and he's only 22, that contract will be a bargain.  Considering he plays a position of need and his youth, this seems like an easy decision to me.
  Well said. Harris's max salary contract today will be a market friendly contract in two years. Because of the way free agency has developed in the first day or two, I'm starting to get scared of Atlanta and the Lakers. It's hard for me to understand why Orlando would match a max offer unless Hezonja is going to play the 2.

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #95 on: July 01, 2015, 03:19:31 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Who else here is trying to get themselves excited about Harris?

Watching highlights and breakdowns... he looks to me like a less athletic Jeff Green. As a scorer he seems like a very similar player-- you guys who have been following him more closely, how does the comparison strike you?

The big differences would be (1) he's a more active rebounder than Green has ever been, and (2) as everyone loves to point out he's only 22 years old.

Abstractly speaking, if you had a guy who could give you prime 28yo Jeff Green's game and production in a 22yo body, how much is that worth?
He's like Jeff Green except with more consistent effort and he doesn't get lost in games as easily. So actually not like jeff green at all.
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Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #96 on: July 01, 2015, 03:19:44 PM »

Offline walker834

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Who else here is trying to get themselves excited about Harris?

Watching highlights and breakdowns... he looks to me like a less athletic Jeff Green. As a scorer he seems like a very similar player-- you guys who have been following him more closely, how does the comparison strike you?

The big differences would be (1) he's a more active rebounder than Green has ever been, and (2) as everyone loves to point out he's only 22 years old.

Abstractly speaking, if you had a guy who could give you prime 28yo Jeff Green's game and production in a 22yo body, how much is that worth?

He seems more aggressive and like he has more of an in between game than Jeff.  My sense of Harris is that he can operate much better in the halfcourt, and with greater assertiveness, than Green.

I hope that is the case.  He is a better rebounder than Green as well.  He seems to put it out there. The fact he challenged Lebron at all is a good thing vs a bad thing imo.

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #97 on: July 01, 2015, 03:21:34 PM »

Offline walker834

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Alright I'm on board with Harris.  I'm out for the rest of the day though.   You can all go home now.

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #98 on: July 01, 2015, 03:21:41 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Who else here is trying to get themselves excited about Harris?

Watching highlights and breakdowns... he looks to me like a less athletic Jeff Green. As a scorer he seems like a very similar player-- you guys who have been following him more closely, how does the comparison strike you?

The big differences would be (1) he's a more active rebounder than Green has ever been, and (2) as everyone loves to point out he's only 22 years old.

Abstractly speaking, if you had a guy who could give you prime 28yo Jeff Green's game and production in a 22yo body, how much is that worth?

It makes me wonder why we traded Jeff Green who was making less money.

It think we were trying to tank.  It did not work. 

And I don't think Ainge thought he was a part of our future.  I don't mind as he was so frustrating.  He just was not as good as he should have been.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 03:34:29 PM by knuckleballer »

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #99 on: July 01, 2015, 03:22:36 PM »

Offline Who

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Watching highlights and breakdowns... he looks to me like a less athletic Jeff Green. As a scorer he seems like a very similar player-- you guys who have been following him more closely, how does the comparison strike you?

Tobias Harris reminds me of Glenn Robinson.

He is not as skilled a mid-range or isolation player as Robinson was but he is still young and improving. What reminds me of Robinson is the plus rebounding + the slow-footed defense with good physical size and ability to compete defensively close to the basket due to physical size but both struggle out on the perimeter against speed + both were very strong offensive players with who could shoot, drive, post up, handle the ball, pass. Score inside and out. Versatile highly skilled power-based SFs.

It's the ability to effect games as versatile scoring SF but the inability to help much on the other end of the court. To be a liability at times defensively. To help his teams but never quite as much as his gaudy offensive stats suggest he helps them.

That is the comparison that has been playing on my mind over the last few days.

Still, with the cap about to rise so much and with Tobias on the lower max contract, I think this contract will be a bargain-deal in 2 years time. So I have no qualms about him being a max contract player given these circumstances.

Re: Washburn: Magic won't match max offer to Tobias Harris
« Reply #100 on: July 01, 2015, 03:22:53 PM »

Offline Dwnflfan

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Giving max money to non-max players is a mistake.  I know he is young, and has decent numbers, but what impact does he have on winning?

But you have to define what a max contract is.  Just estimating the numbers, it will be about $16 mil for Harris this season.  For an older veteran, it is about $22m.  With the salary cap going up to $89m next year, it will be about $20m for a young guy and $28m for an older guy.  In 2017, with the cap going up to $108m, it will be about about $25m for a young guy and $34m for an older guy, meanwhile Harris will be locked in at around $17m that year. 

If Harris improves at all, and he's only 22, that contract will be a bargain.  Considering he plays a position of need and his youth, this seems like an easy decision to me.
I understand.  But we can't ignore the pretty big assumption that is being made here; that Harris (because he is young) will necessarily get better and better.  That certainly does not always happen and you have to be concerned that his numbers are inflated now due to being on a bad team.

When you look at his comps on basketball reference, they aren't too encouraging to be sure.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harrito02.html

Yep, those comps make me pray that we don't sign Harris.  The stats out there that are designed to predict future performance (instead of simply measuring past performance) are not kind to Harris. 

So many other guys who would make more sense for us.

Similarity scores don't take age into factor.  Leon Powe is TB's top career comp and Powe was 23 when he got to the NBA.  The "best to worst" comps are all guys who started their careers at the age of 21-23.  In other words, TB is way ahead of everyone on those list because he's put up similar seasons at much younger ages.

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #101 on: July 01, 2015, 03:31:46 PM »

Offline Geo123

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I would much rather spend the money on Kevin Love or Greg Monroe which we still have a  shot at.  Tobias Harris isn't winning us a championship.  Bad move.

Kevin Love and Greg Monroe arent winning a championship either ..

And neither are coming to Boston either other than on another team during the season...

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #102 on: July 01, 2015, 03:32:40 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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Who else here is trying to get themselves excited about Harris?

Watching highlights and breakdowns... he looks to me like a less athletic Jeff Green. As a scorer he seems like a very similar player-- you guys who have been following him more closely, how does the comparison strike you?

The big differences would be (1) he's a more active rebounder than Green has ever been, and (2) as everyone loves to point out he's only 22 years old.

Abstractly speaking, if you had a guy who could give you prime 28yo Jeff Green's game and production in a 22yo body, how much is that worth?

It makes me wonder why we traded Jeff Green who was making less money.

Jeff Green is 28 years old.

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #103 on: July 01, 2015, 03:34:58 PM »

Offline walker834

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I would much rather spend the money on Kevin Love or Greg Monroe which we still have a  shot at.  Tobias Harris isn't winning us a championship.  Bad move.

Kevin Love and Greg Monroe arent winning a championship either ..

And neither are coming to Boston either other than on another team during the season...

I've since changed my stance on harris a bit.  I've gone back and forth on him anyways.  Wanted him. Didn't want him.  Now I do.  So if Tobias Harris  comes here i'll be happy.   He was one of my top free agent priorities interesting enough.  Still is.  As far as guys we have to pay. 

Re: UPDATE: Celtics "frontrunner" to sign Harris, reports Steve Kyler
« Reply #104 on: July 01, 2015, 03:37:29 PM »

Offline walker834

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I'd still rather sign Jae Crowder and a guy like Corey Brewer and get Kevin Love though if at all possible.  If it isn't Harris makes the most sense.