Author Topic: The Official 'Time For Someone To Apologize' Thread  (Read 7182 times)

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Re: THE OFFICIAL 'TIME FOR SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE' THREAD
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2015, 03:28:36 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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It's a stupid debate anyway, because it makes it seem like an absolute question without taking into account the myriad of variables involved

It's true this is the first time we've ever had legit cap space so when people say "Boston has never attracts top FA's" I think that's pretty stupid. You can't sign anyone if you don't have the required cap space.

But at the same time, people on the opposite side need to really temper their expectations because there are so many variables that go into landing one, just having the available cap space isn't enough. For one, we still don't have any star players here, and of the biggest name guys are gonna move, most want to go to a team with another star. So many things go into a players decision in FA like where they're originally from, the strength of the conferences, future outlook, ability to contend right away, the strength of the FA class, the future cap situation, etc. that no matter whether or not we sign anyone it doesn't prove the "Can Boston sign any elite FA?" question one way or another.

It doesn't matter what happens this year, because one chance at it doesn't prove anything for either side.

Absolutely true.

You could go 5 years straight with $35M in cap space each of those years, and still fail to come out of it with a legit superstar signing.

Sadly that's just the nature of the beast.

For Danny, you aren't freeing up cap space so that you can sign a star free agent.  You're freeing up cap space so you can give yourself the CHANCE at signing a star free agent.

For each and every star out the who hits free agency, all it takes for us to miss out on that guy is for one team out there to present that player with a more appealing situation.  That could be money, it could be roster, it could be role - it could be something as simple as playing with a friend, or liking the city. 

Almost every free agent ends up having 3-5 final destinations that appeal to them, that it ends up coming down to.  Even if you are one of those final destinations for 6 or 7 free agents, it still doesn't mean you're going to get one.  You could be #2 choice for every one of those guys, and at the end of the day it means nothing.

There is EVERY possibility that not one of the guys being mentioned (not even Harris) ends up choosing Boston in the end.  Just look at what happened with Davis West and Indiana a few years back - everybody was 95% sure we had him in the back, then there as a last minute change of mind, and just like that we end up with Brandon Bass instead.

We might push this year for guys like Kevin Love and Greg Monroe - and end up Robin Lopez instead.

Really we shouldn't "expect" anything outside of Danny making some kind of move that improves the team in any possible way.  Any form of "fireworks" should be a bonus, and if something that happens we should be blown away.

Same with the draft.  You should never EXPECT we will somehow magically make a move that takes us from 16th to 8th.  We should assume we are picking at #16, and we move any closer than good on Danny.

Re: THE OFFICIAL 'TIME FOR SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE' THREAD
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2015, 12:27:30 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the salary cap for this past season 63 mill and expected to be 89 mill in 2016-2017. So 11 mill last year would be equivalent to 15.5 mill a year from now? 

Are you taking that into account?

Close.

2014/15 = $63m
2015/16 = $67m
2016/17 = $89m

So if a guy is making the max this year, he would be on $16.75 m (25% of $67m).


That number is not quite correct.  The 'cap' used for the maximum salary 'percent of cap' calculation is not the regular salary cap number.  It is actually about 94% of it.

From http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16
Quote
"They use a different cap calculation to determine the maximum salaries, which is based on 42.14% of projected BRI rather than 44.74%."

Thus, for a 0-6 year player, using this year's salary cap number of 67M, the max salary would be 15.8M.

Next year, using a 89M salary cap number, the same category of player would cost 20.95M.

Yeah, I'm sure my figures aren't 100% correct (I don't even know if the cap figures for future years are 100% confirmed yet) just using ballpark figures to express the concept that a 4 year max contract (even after the cap goes up) is not something insignificant - it's still a lot of money to have on your payroll, and a couple of those (one of them, even) is still potentially enough to impact your future flexibility if it doesn't pan out as you hoped.

That's why I would be a little hesitant to go throwing max contracts and near-max contracts at every guy that's available and that we feel is an upgrade over our current team. 

If we're overpaying a little (say $12M for a guy who you'd normally pay $10M for) then that's not such a big deal because the rising cap will essentially render that difference irrelevant.  But if we're overpaying substantially (say, $15M for a guy you'd normally pay $10M for) based purely on the fact that the cap is rising, then you're taking a big gamble on a deal that may hurt you more then you realise 2-3 years down the track. 

Really, even if you sign 4 or 5 guys and overpay each one by $2M/year- that's $8M - $10M a year being thrown away.

It's hard to say whether  a player is 'overpaid' or not at the start of a contract.  That becomes a pretty subjective projection.  So I'll ignore that.

To me, it's about categories of players.   Ultimately, in order to be a contender, we are going to want at least 2 and preferably 3 players on roster who are 'max quality'.  And, unless one emerges from our developmental prospects, we are going to have to take on 'max contracts' to pay for those guys, whether we sign them as FAs or trade for them under contract.  Even developmentally, our own guys will eventually cost that much, if they are that good.

So, looking at where we are now and where we will be by the end of next summer, if the goal is to try to have 3 such players on the roster under contract by the Fall of 2016-17, then it actually would be MUCH better (10M dollars of room next summer better) to try to sign two of those guys this summer.

Because if we don't sign two ~15M guys this summer, then two guys just like them will cost 20M each next summer.   That will eat into the money you have to try to get the third guy.  That third guy, you probably want to be a more significant piece - perhaps he is a 7-9 (30%) guy.  Under the 89M cap number, that guy will cost 25.1M.   If we have to waste 10M of our cap space NEXT year buying what we could have locked up THIS year for less, then we may not have that room.

Using back-of-the-envelop estimates, I'm projecting that if we lock two guys up for 0-6 Max contracts this summer (which is doable) then next summer, given current obligations, we should have somewhere around 34-39M in cap space.  That would be plenty to get that third guy and still have money to fill out holes in the roster.

If we DON'T sign such guys this summer (and we shouldn't, if we can't find good guys to spend it on who will come here) then it will cost us over 10M more next summer to make up for that and we will only have about 24-29M available for that third guy and address other holes in the roster.  Not enough.

That isn't to say that we should spend money for the sake of spending it.  It is saying that, if we CAN find two guys worth it to spend it on that will come here, we most definitely should.

If we can't, there are still other avenues, such as trades, to explore that can make up for not finding a match for our needs in the free agent market.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: THE OFFICIAL 'TIME FOR SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE' THREAD
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2015, 12:36:47 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I have said before ,Boston is not an attractive place for FA

And that we may have to build through the draft.

Watch the hawks  or totally unexpected team like the Rockets will sign Harris. Dont think he is coming here

Re: THE OFFICIAL 'TIME FOR SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE' THREAD
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2015, 12:38:03 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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In addition Wyc and Danny are not overspenders.  They are not going to overpay for a guy like Caroll

Re: THE OFFICIAL 'TIME FOR SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE' THREAD
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2015, 12:40:50 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Sorry I don't understand why are allowed to have a thread in all capitals? This is pretty obnoxious, to say nothing of the premise of this thread. It is like you are screaming at the board.

Re: THE OFFICIAL 'TIME FOR SOMEONE TO APOLOGIZE' THREAD
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2015, 01:56:52 PM »

Offline sawick48

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Sorry I don't understand why are allowed to have a thread in all capitals? This is pretty obnoxious, to say nothing of the premise of this thread. It is like you are screaming at the board.


THIS IS THE WAY I TALK!! HAVEN'T YA SEEN MY MOOOOOOVIES?!?!?!

no but it's easy, I just hit the caps lock and started typing......

and i'm not trying to scream at anyone.  just trying to have some fun and stir the pot. 

Re: The Official 'Time For Someone To Apologize' Thread
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2015, 11:28:41 PM »

Offline sawick48

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just gonna go ahead and bump this up and leave it here......

presented without comment.