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Derozan and other moves
« on: June 30, 2015, 11:02:17 PM »

Offline Deezzyy

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Would you give up Bradley Turner Kelly Olynyk and Brooklyn 16 and for DeMar Derozan? Then try and trade for Hibbert and sign Tobias Harris and Patrick Patterson?
Starting lineup
Smart
Derozan
Harris
Patterson
Hibbert
Bench:
Thomas
Rozier
Hunter
Crowder
Zeller

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 11:04:41 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Sounds decent except for the Hibbert part. People still caught up in the "rim protector" get past it already or at least move on to a good player. ;)

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 11:04:41 PM »

Offline celticpride1

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 11:05:52 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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I would make it a 3 team trade because I love James Young.  Keep the BKN pick and get a prospect back.


Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 11:27:43 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Would you give up Bradley Turner Kelly Olynyk and Brooklyn 16 and for DeMar Derozan? Then try and trade for Hibbert and sign Tobias Harris and Patrick Patterson?

No and no.

I don't mind Derozan, but that's too much to give up. 

Bradley is a good starter, Olynyk has the potential to be a good starter, turner is a reasonable 6th man, and the Brooklyn pick could easily end up in the top 10 (depending how bad they are next year). 

Derozan is nice, but he's not transcendent.  He'd immediately be the best player on our team (no argument there) but we'd be left with a lot of holes to fill after that.

Meh actually I'd think about it - he is a two-way player after all, and if we added Derozan then I do feel we'd be potentially one player away from being a contender.

Not intersted AT ALL in Harris though, and not that interested in Hibbert either (a bit more than Harris, but not much). 


Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 11:32:30 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Derozan isn't an average player dude.

He averaged >20 PPG last year on a playoffs team and he's a pretty good defensive player too.

He's not superstar by any means, but he's definitely a very good player who (at 25 years old) still has potential to improve. 

I'd be a little concerned by his outside shooting (or lack thereof) though.  His career high 3PT% (after 6 years in the NBA) was 30.5% and that's pretty bad.  We'd be giving up Bradley and Olynyk in the deal - who are two of out top three outside shooters.

If we did this, it would be absolutely IMPERATIVE that we find a way to obtain multiple outside shooters to put around him including either a stretch 4 or stretch 5.

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 11:41:39 PM »

Offline Celts Fan 508

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Would you give up Bradley Turner Kelly Olynyk and Brooklyn 16 and for DeMar Derozan? Then try and trade for Hibbert and sign Tobias Harris and Patrick Patterson?
Starting lineup
Smart
Derozan
Harris
Patterson
Hibbert
Bench:
Thomas
Rozier
Hunter
Crowder
Zeller

It's a ton to give up for Derozan but if we got Harris I would do it, I think Derozan and Harris to pair with Smart, IT, Crowder, Zeller, Sully, and the rookies I would be thrilled.  If we were able to get Patterson and a center (not necessarily Hibbert) then even better. 
2019 historical draft.  Pick 12

Tim Duncan, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond, Sam Jones, Dan Majerle, Bob Cousy, Rasheed Wallace, Shawn Kemp, Marcus Camby

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 11:50:09 PM »

Offline cltc5

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Derozan isn't an average player dude.

He averaged >20 PPG last year on a playoffs team and he's a pretty good defensive player too.

He's not superstar by any means, but he's definitely a very good player who (at 25 years old) still has potential to improve. 

I'd be a little concerned by his outside shooting (or lack thereof) though.  His career high 3PT% (after 6 years in the NBA) was 30.5% and that's pretty bad.  We'd be giving up Bradley and Olynyk in the deal - who are two of out top three outside shooters.

If we did this, it would be absolutely IMPERATIVE that we find a way to obtain multiple outside shooters to put around him including either a stretch 4 or stretch 5.

Yet you don't want Tobias Harris.  Lol, ok  ::)

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2015, 11:57:05 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Derozan isn't an average player dude.

He averaged >20 PPG last year on a playoffs team and he's a pretty good defensive player too.

He's not superstar by any means, but he's definitely a very good player who (at 25 years old) still has potential to improve. 

I'd be a little concerned by his outside shooting (or lack thereof) though.  His career high 3PT% (after 6 years in the NBA) was 30.5% and that's pretty bad.  We'd be giving up Bradley and Olynyk in the deal - who are two of out top three outside shooters.

If we did this, it would be absolutely IMPERATIVE that we find a way to obtain multiple outside shooters to put around him including either a stretch 4 or stretch 5.
Derozan has a negative RPM. This means he makes his team worse. Id rather go after Zaza Pachulia
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 01:37:51 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Derozan isn't an average player dude.

He averaged >20 PPG last year on a playoffs team and he's a pretty good defensive player too.

He's not superstar by any means, but he's definitely a very good player who (at 25 years old) still has potential to improve. 

I'd be a little concerned by his outside shooting (or lack thereof) though.  His career high 3PT% (after 6 years in the NBA) was 30.5% and that's pretty bad.  We'd be giving up Bradley and Olynyk in the deal - who are two of out top three outside shooters.

If we did this, it would be absolutely IMPERATIVE that we find a way to obtain multiple outside shooters to put around him including either a stretch 4 or stretch 5.

Yet you don't want Tobias Harris.  Lol, ok  ::)

Derozan:

a) Is a very good defensive player
b) Has proven he can be a 20+ PPG scorer on a playoff caliber team
c) Has proven his scoring is no fluke (5+ seasons averaging > 17 PPG)
d) Has solid 'court feel' (> 3.5 APG to 2.3 turnovers)
e) Is on a cap friendly deal for the next two years ($10m / year)

Tobias Harris:

a) Is an average (at best) or below average (at worst) defensive player
b) Scored a career high 17.1 PPG playing for a bottom 5 team
c) Has had only one good season in four years in the league - happens to be in a contact year
d) Lacks 'court feel' (1.9 assists to 1.8 turnovers)
e) Will probably require a drastic overpay in order to acquire

There is a very high amount of risk in giving Harris any offer over about $11m - $12m per year, since he's not yet proven that he's good enough to earn any more than that.

Derozan has done plenty to prove that he is WELL worth the $10m he's earning over the next two seasons.

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2015, 01:39:15 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Derozan isn't an average player dude.

He averaged >20 PPG last year on a playoffs team and he's a pretty good defensive player too.

He's not superstar by any means, but he's definitely a very good player who (at 25 years old) still has potential to improve. 

I'd be a little concerned by his outside shooting (or lack thereof) though.  His career high 3PT% (after 6 years in the NBA) was 30.5% and that's pretty bad.  We'd be giving up Bradley and Olynyk in the deal - who are two of out top three outside shooters.

If we did this, it would be absolutely IMPERATIVE that we find a way to obtain multiple outside shooters to put around him including either a stretch 4 or stretch 5.
Derozan has a negative RPM. This means he makes his team worse. Id rather go after Zaza Pachulia

Certainly has a much higher one than Tobias Harris...and makes less money.

No brainer :)

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2015, 01:42:46 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Derozan isn't an average player dude.

He averaged >20 PPG last year on a playoffs team and he's a pretty good defensive player too.

He's not superstar by any means, but he's definitely a very good player who (at 25 years old) still has potential to improve. 

I'd be a little concerned by his outside shooting (or lack thereof) though.  His career high 3PT% (after 6 years in the NBA) was 30.5% and that's pretty bad.  We'd be giving up Bradley and Olynyk in the deal - who are two of out top three outside shooters.

If we did this, it would be absolutely IMPERATIVE that we find a way to obtain multiple outside shooters to put around him including either a stretch 4 or stretch 5.

Yet you don't want Tobias Harris.  Lol, ok  ::)

Derozan:

a) Is a very good defensive player
b) Has proven he can be a 20+ PPG scorer on a playoff caliber team
c) Has proven his scoring is no fluke (5+ seasons averaging > 17 PPG)
d) Has solid 'court feel' (> 3.5 APG to 2.3 turnovers)
e) Is on a cap friendly deal for the next two years ($10m / year)

Tobias Harris:

a) Is an average (at best) or below average (at worst) defensive player
b) Scored a career high 17.1 PPG playing for a bottom 5 team
c) Has had only one good season in four years in the league - happens to be in a contact year
d) Lacks 'court feel' (1.9 assists to 1.8 turnovers)
e) Will probably require a drastic overpay in order to acquire

There is a very high amount of risk in giving Harris any offer over about $11m - $12m per year, since he's not yet proven that he's good enough to earn any more than that.

Derozan has done plenty to prove that he is WELL worth the $10m he's earning over the next two seasons.
Yes but has he done enough to prove he is worth $10
Million and the huge pile of assets you are willing to give up to get him?
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2015, 02:13:09 AM »

Offline alewilliam789

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I would send them Bradley, Thomas, Sully, and Minnesota's 1st rounder for Demar Derozan.

Sign Harris.

PG: Terry Rozier
SG: Demar Derozan
SF: Tobias Harris
PF: Kelly Olynyk
C: Tyler Zeller

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2015, 02:15:30 AM »

Offline max215

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I would send them Bradley, Thomas, Sully, and Minnesota's 1st rounder for Demar Derozan.

Sign Harris.

PG: Terry Rozier
SG: Demar Derozan
SF: Tobias Harris
PF: Kelly Olynyk
C: Tyler Zeller

Did Smart retire?
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

DKC Clippers

Re: Derozan and other moves
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2015, 03:42:02 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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HELL no are you high? Not giving up that much for an average player.

Derozan isn't an average player dude.

He averaged >20 PPG last year on a playoffs team and he's a pretty good defensive player too.

He's not superstar by any means, but he's definitely a very good player who (at 25 years old) still has potential to improve. 

I'd be a little concerned by his outside shooting (or lack thereof) though.  His career high 3PT% (after 6 years in the NBA) was 30.5% and that's pretty bad.  We'd be giving up Bradley and Olynyk in the deal - who are two of out top three outside shooters.

If we did this, it would be absolutely IMPERATIVE that we find a way to obtain multiple outside shooters to put around him including either a stretch 4 or stretch 5.

Yet you don't want Tobias Harris.  Lol, ok  ::)

Derozan:

a) Is a very good defensive player
b) Has proven he can be a 20+ PPG scorer on a playoff caliber team
c) Has proven his scoring is no fluke (5+ seasons averaging > 17 PPG)
d) Has solid 'court feel' (> 3.5 APG to 2.3 turnovers)
e) Is on a cap friendly deal for the next two years ($10m / year)

Tobias Harris:

a) Is an average (at best) or below average (at worst) defensive player
b) Scored a career high 17.1 PPG playing for a bottom 5 team
c) Has had only one good season in four years in the league - happens to be in a contact year
d) Lacks 'court feel' (1.9 assists to 1.8 turnovers)
e) Will probably require a drastic overpay in order to acquire

There is a very high amount of risk in giving Harris any offer over about $11m - $12m per year, since he's not yet proven that he's good enough to earn any more than that.

Derozan has done plenty to prove that he is WELL worth the $10m he's earning over the next two seasons.
Yes but has he done enough to prove he is worth $10
Million and the huge pile of assets you are willing to give up to get him?

It's debatable, which is why I was 50/50 on whether I would make the move or not.

It's not one of those moves that I would just jump on without a moment of hesitation.  It would likely be dependent on whether we can find other guys out there to fill the roles of those guys we trade out (mainly shooting, for Olynyk and Bradley). 

The offer proposed was for Bradley, Turner, Olynyk and 2016 Brooklyn Pick. 

Derozan essentially replaces one of Bradley or Turner (depending on whether you play him at SF or SG).  Lets say turner, since he's not much of an outside shooter either (so you aren't losing much).

That basically means you are sacrificing Bradley, Olynyk and the 2016 pick.

So in this case the question becomes:
A) Can we find another back-court shooter to replace Bradley?
B) Can we find another stretch 4/5 to replace Olynyk
C) What is the value of the 2016 pick to us?

My answres would be:
A) Maybe, depending on how Young and Hunter turn out
B) No, unless Bass or Sully can emerge as serious three point threats
C) If BKN pick becomes as good as Derozan would you be happy?  I would, so I say the pick is worth sacrificing.

So i would hunt through free agency / trade market to see if I can find a guy who could be the solution to question (B) and if I can find that, then I would pull the trigger.   If not, then I'd pass on it.