Author Topic: Trade for Joe Johnson  (Read 4356 times)

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Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2015, 04:42:07 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2015, 09:54:30 PM »

Offline Geo123

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No, he is told old and broke down and most likely too expensive.   Let him hang like an albatross around the NETS neck to make our pick from them better.

Exactly....

Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2015, 10:28:30 PM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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I know everyone's excited about signing Kevin Love, Greg Monroe, or Tobias Harris, but judging by the entire history of our franchise, it seems wise to consider other potential uses of our cap space this summer.  Instead of overpaying for the likes of DeMarre Carroll and Robin Lopez, why not use that space to trade for Joe Johnson?  The Nets tried to trade him to Memphis, but the deal fell apart because Memphis couldn't put together a package of players that a) matched Johnson's salary and b) was expendable.  Because Johnson's salary is so mammoth, this will likely be the case for every other team that's over the cap, and the teams with cap space who can actually sign major free agents likely won't want to use their space on Johnson.  That leaves the Nets with very few options; if they're serious about getting rid of Johnson they might have to give up some assets to dump him.  How about we send the Nets a top 55 protected pick for Johnson and the right to swap first rounders in 2019?  In this deal the Nets save a ton of money (almost 25 million dollars for Johnson plus a steep repeater luxury tax bill), while we pick up a future asset that might be meaningless but could be very valuable depending on how the Nets' attempts to sign free agents go.  Additionally, losing Johnson would significantly weaken the Nets this year since he's far and away their best perimeter scorer and they have no means of replacing him.  This trade would increase the value of the pick we get from Brooklyn in next year's draft.  Thoughts?

No thanks. If Johnson can contribute anything it'll be on a contender or on a really good team where he won't be required to be 1a or 1b. We have neither at this point. If we signed Kevin Love, I wouldn't see why not. But it looks like we might be signing Harris, so no need for that.

The point isn't really to get Johnson; he clearly won't move the needle for us.  But if he's not on the Nets that's good for us, so if we can make that happen and get another asset for doing so I think it would be worth doing.

Ummm what? I think the Celtics have a better team right now regardless of Lopez and Young resigning and being healthy.

So why would we trade for a player who can't move the needle for us? If he can't move the needle for us, as you, yourself just suggested, why would we want to trade for someone who wouldn't move the needle either on the Nets? I would rather have Johnson take iso shots on the Nets, where they will most likely end up out of the lottery, or 8h seed at best.

The Nets also aren't going to give us any more assets. I think they learned a lesson not to trade with Danny Ainge.

I agree that the Celtics have a better team.  The point of the trade isn't to make the Celtics better, it's to make the Nets worse (and consequently improve the draft pick that they give us at the end of the season).  And losing Johnson absolutely would make the Nets worse.  Johnson isn't the guy he was 5 years ago, but he's still worlds better than the likes of Bojan Bogdanovic and Alan Anderson.  Sure, they are going to be 8th seed at best with Johnson, but why settle for that if we have an opportunity to make them, say, the 12th seed?  Or do you think that taking away their best perimeter scorer when they have no means of replacing him is going to make them better?

Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2015, 10:30:02 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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NO NO NO NO!!!!!

Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2015, 10:33:54 PM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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No, he is told old and broke down and most likely too expensive.   Let him hang like an albatross around the NETS neck to make our pick from them better.

Johnson's contract expires after this season.  He is massively overpaid, but he's still a good player who makes our pick from them worse.  Taking him off the Nets, when they are capped out and can't replace him, will make our pick from them better this year, and then after this season we can let him go as a free agent just like the Nets would do.  If we have cap space and can't sign anyone good, why not use it to improve the value of the draft pick we get next year? 

Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2015, 10:38:59 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Absolutely not. No reason to help Brooklyn improve their roster considering Ainge holds their lottery ticket next year.
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Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2015, 10:45:10 PM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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Absolutely not. No reason to help Brooklyn improve their roster considering Ainge holds their lottery ticket next year.

How does taking their best perimeter scorer away from them when they don't have the cap space to replace him help them improve their roster?

Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2015, 10:47:12 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Absolutely not. No reason to help Brooklyn improve their roster considering Ainge holds their lottery ticket next year.

How does taking their best perimeter scorer away from them when they don't have the cap space to replace him help them improve their roster?

You've either given them matching contracts that can be more easily traded for help, or you've given them a massive trade exception, or a combination of both.

As long as Deron, Johnson, and the resigned Lopez and Thad Young combine to basically take Brooklyn to the salary cap, they are strapped with ways to improve the roster. There's no reason to let them out of that straightjacket.
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Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2015, 10:49:22 PM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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Absolutely not. No reason to help Brooklyn improve their roster considering Ainge holds their lottery ticket next year.

How does taking their best perimeter scorer away from them when they don't have the cap space to replace him help them improve their roster?

You've either given them matching contracts that can be more easily traded for help, or you've given them a massive trade exception, or a combination of both.

Not if we have cap space and can absorb him into that; salaries don't have to match.  What are they going to do with a trade exception if they can't combine it with other players and have no picks they can trade before 2020?

Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2015, 11:09:46 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Absolutely not. No reason to help Brooklyn improve their roster considering Ainge holds their lottery ticket next year.

How does taking their best perimeter scorer away from them when they don't have the cap space to replace him help them improve their roster?

You've either given them matching contracts that can be more easily traded for help, or you've given them a massive trade exception, or a combination of both.

Not if we have cap space and can absorb him into that; salaries don't have to match.  What are they going to do with a trade exception if they can't combine it with other players and have no picks they can trade before 2020?

They'd use the trade exception to take on players from teams looking to shed salary. They wouldn't have to send out picks; depending on the contracts they'd take back, they could even net 1st rounders for the trouble of taking on salary from other teams.

They could also peel chunks off that massive TE to turn Johnson into four or five or more players that could help them plug holes in their roster.

Giving the Nets a $24 million trade exception would put Ainge on Billy King's Christmas card list for the rest of their lives.
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Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2015, 11:12:00 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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What are they going to do with a trade exception if they can't combine it with other players and have no picks they can trade before 2020?

1) Trade it for a player who has a non-guaranteed contract (or team option) and can be waived
2) Trade it for a player who can actually help improve their roster

We have the Rondo Trade Exemption plus Wallace give them a second round pick too. I like the thought of making them worse. I would wait till we strike out in FA First.

You cannot combined players with trade exceptions in a trade.

You can send them:
a) The Rondo TPE plus picks
b) Wallace plus picks

Can't do both. 

I don't think we could trade for Johnson at all without giving Wallace AND somebody else with a substantial contract (either Bradley or Isaiah Thomas) and there's no way I'm sending either of those guys out for Joe Johnson. 

Re: Trade for Joe Johnson
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2015, 12:00:31 AM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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Absolutely not. No reason to help Brooklyn improve their roster considering Ainge holds their lottery ticket next year.

How does taking their best perimeter scorer away from them when they don't have the cap space to replace him help them improve their roster?

You've either given them matching contracts that can be more easily traded for help, or you've given them a massive trade exception, or a combination of both.

Not if we have cap space and can absorb him into that; salaries don't have to match.  What are they going to do with a trade exception if they can't combine it with other players and have no picks they can trade before 2020?

They'd use the trade exception to take on players from teams looking to shed salary. They wouldn't have to send out picks; depending on the contracts they'd take back, they could even net 1st rounders for the trouble of taking on salary from other teams.

They could also peel chunks off that massive TE to turn Johnson into four or five or more players that could help them plug holes in their roster.

Giving the Nets a $24 million trade exception would put Ainge on Billy King's Christmas card list for the rest of their lives.

The whole reason they want to get rid of Johnson in the first place is to shed salary; they aren't going to take on additional salary unless it's a foundational piece that they want long term.  Those aren't the sort of players that you can absorb into a trade exception without giving up any assets.  The only players that they would be able to take on without giving up anything of value are overpaid players that teams are desperate to get rid of.  What player/s are out there who a) are better than Johnson and b) would be given away for free?  And even if you can think of such a player, why would the Nets dump a good, but overpaid player to get rid of his salary, then use the resulting trade exception to take on one or more other good, but overpaid players?  That makes zero sense from the Nets' perspective. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 12:09:36 AM by celticsfan8591 »