Author Topic: My NBA anti-tanking proposal  (Read 6609 times)

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Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2015, 02:51:53 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

If you are season ticket holder it is a major problem.
for a season or two, and then you get, in theory, a much better team.

Look at OKC.  They clearly tanked.  For a two plus year period, every move they made was about getting worse.  They traded every single veteran on the team for draft picks.  They made no moves to help the short term.  They accumulated 10 first round picks in a four year period.  If not for Durant's injury this year, they would have been a real contender for six straight years. 

That is what a tank job is supposed to do. 

As a season ticket holder wouldn't you rather have two or three seasons of 25ish wins, if it meant ten straight years of 50+ wins including at least one Finals appearance.

The Thunder tank job was all about making it easier to move the team to Seattle.  Being able to draft good players was a secondary concern.

Yeah, I'd be leery in using that as an example of a defense for somebody else.

I do think that the Warriors rebuild gets under reported as a tank job. They openly lost games, we're terrible forever and finally gelled a young core. But it wasn't a straight line process.

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2015, 02:53:32 PM »

Online Moranis

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

If you are season ticket holder it is a major problem.
for a season or two, and then you get, in theory, a much better team.

Look at OKC.  They clearly tanked.  For a two plus year period, every move they made was about getting worse.  They traded every single veteran on the team for draft picks.  They made no moves to help the short term.  They accumulated 10 first round picks in a four year period.  If not for Durant's injury this year, they would have been a real contender for six straight years. 

That is what a tank job is supposed to do. 

As a season ticket holder wouldn't you rather have two or three seasons of 25ish wins, if it meant ten straight years of 50+ wins including at least one Finals appearance.

The Thunder tank job was all about making it easier to move the team to Seattle.  Being able to draft good players was a secondary concern.
The team was purchased by Oklahoma City people before the tank job started. 
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Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2015, 03:55:52 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

If you are season ticket holder it is a major problem.
for a season or two, and then you get, in theory, a much better team.

Look at OKC.  They clearly tanked.  For a two plus year period, every move they made was about getting worse.  They traded every single veteran on the team for draft picks.  They made no moves to help the short term.  They accumulated 10 first round picks in a four year period.  If not for Durant's injury this year, they would have been a real contender for six straight years. 

That is what a tank job is supposed to do. 

As a season ticket holder wouldn't you rather have two or three seasons of 25ish wins, if it meant ten straight years of 50+ wins including at least one Finals appearance.

The Thunder tank job was all about making it easier to move the team to Seattle.  Being able to draft good players was a secondary concern.
The team was purchased by Oklahoma City people before the tank job started.

Yes, they bought the team with the intention of moving it to OKC and did everything they could to make it possible.

What they did was more horrible and more worthy of punishment than anything the Sixers are doing right now.
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Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2015, 04:13:12 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

If you are season ticket holder it is a major problem.
for a season or two, and then you get, in theory, a much better team.

Look at OKC.  They clearly tanked.  For a two plus year period, every move they made was about getting worse.  They traded every single veteran on the team for draft picks.  They made no moves to help the short term.  They accumulated 10 first round picks in a four year period.  If not for Durant's injury this year, they would have been a real contender for six straight years. 

That is what a tank job is supposed to do. 

As a season ticket holder wouldn't you rather have two or three seasons of 25ish wins, if it meant ten straight years of 50+ wins including at least one Finals appearance.

The Thunder tank job was all about making it easier to move the team to Seattle.  Being able to draft good players was a secondary concern.
The team was purchased by Oklahoma City people before the tank job started.

Yes, they bought the team with the intention of moving it to OKC and did everything they could to make it possible.

What they did was more horrible and more worthy of punishment than anything the Sixers are doing right now.

cosigned.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2015, 04:34:10 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

If you are season ticket holder it is a major problem.
for a season or two, and then you get, in theory, a much better team.

Look at OKC.  They clearly tanked.  For a two plus year period, every move they made was about getting worse.  They traded every single veteran on the team for draft picks.  They made no moves to help the short term.  They accumulated 10 first round picks in a four year period.  If not for Durant's injury this year, they would have been a real contender for six straight years. 

That is what a tank job is supposed to do. 

As a season ticket holder wouldn't you rather have two or three seasons of 25ish wins, if it meant ten straight years of 50+ wins including at least one Finals appearance.

Shelling out $7k a year to keep my seats for a proposal of completely unwatchable basketball for at least a year, if not 2 or 3, on the hopes and theory of tanking is a major problem for most, if not all, people of modest incomes.

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2015, 05:36:25 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Good thing you're under no obligation to keep your season tickets if you don't want to.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2015, 06:20:52 PM »

Online Moranis

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

If you are season ticket holder it is a major problem.
for a season or two, and then you get, in theory, a much better team.

Look at OKC.  They clearly tanked.  For a two plus year period, every move they made was about getting worse.  They traded every single veteran on the team for draft picks.  They made no moves to help the short term.  They accumulated 10 first round picks in a four year period.  If not for Durant's injury this year, they would have been a real contender for six straight years. 

That is what a tank job is supposed to do. 

As a season ticket holder wouldn't you rather have two or three seasons of 25ish wins, if it meant ten straight years of 50+ wins including at least one Finals appearance.

The Thunder tank job was all about making it easier to move the team to Seattle.  Being able to draft good players was a secondary concern.
The team was purchased by Oklahoma City people before the tank job started.

Yes, they bought the team with the intention of moving it to OKC and did everything they could to make it possible.

What they did was more horrible and more worthy of punishment than anything the Sixers are doing right now.
And yet the tank job worked, did it not?  I mean isn't that point I was making.  Tanking for a couple of seasons to land hall of fame players to put you as a perennial contender, doesn't sound to bad for me.  And OKC never had the first pick in the draft.

Had New Orleans not made that botched Jrue Holiday trade, they could have added Noel and Payton (the two players selected in the picks they traded to Philly) to Davis, Anderson, and Gordon and been set up very nicely going forward.  They still could have added Evans in free agency as well. 

Tanking works, that is why teams do it.  Sure you have to make the right moves, and it certainly helps to tank in the right draft and then be lucky enough to not lose the lottery that, but it is perhaps the only method a team like New Orleans is ever going to have to land a superstar.  I mean does anyone really think Anthony Davis would willingly sign in New Orleans. 
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Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2015, 06:56:13 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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How do you counter tanking?... sniping.   Fixing the lotto is easy.

First, teams 1-5 are each given 5 blue cards.   
Teams 6-10 are given 6 red cards. 
Teams 10-15, this is the middle of the road teams, are given 3 blue cards and 1 red card. 
Teams 16-25 are given 1 blue card, 2 red cards and 2 orange cards.
Teams 25-30 are given 2 orange cards 

In addition, two teams will randomly be given a green marble.   One team will be given a gold thimble.

Blue cards will be worth 1.58x red cards.  Red cards are worth 1.28x orange cards.   But this value will not be static.  It will fluctuate based on the rarity of these commodities and their arbitrary worth at any given point during the Structuring.   The marble and the gold thimble will not be given inherent value, but over the course of the structuring, two more drawings will determine their multipliers... more on that later.

The Structuring will take place over a 72 hour period.  During this period, 30 anonymous representatives from the 30 teams will be locked in a banquet room with enough food and water to sustain themselves.   And yes, there will be a bathroom. 

In addition to the 30 anonymous team representatives, two more "frauds" will be introduced.   Nobody will know who these frauds are.  Nobody will know who represents each team.   Each fraud will have 1 blue card, 1 red card and 1 orange card.  These cards are worthless and will not work in the structuring machines... more on that later.

There will be a "structuring wheel" that can be utilized at any time.   This wheel, allows you to insert one of your cards and depending on the value of it, will designate your chances of acquiring a cyber-token.    You might be wondering at this point, how is the value of the cards and thus the odds of their ability to net cyber-tokens from structuring wheel designated if the value of the cards is forever fluctuating?   Well that's a good question.   That's where an unbias panel of 30 media reps will watch this via closed-circuit telecast and designate what the perceived value is.  Of course, the perceived value might be different than the actual value. 

In addition to the "structuring wheel", there will be a structuring crane.  Much like a crane used for getting plush toys at an arcade.  Depending on the value of your cards, the crane will be lowered.. and thus make your ability to grab a spigit more likely.  If you grab a spigit, it's worth 1.5 cyber tokens.   If you manage to grab two spigits, it's worth 2.3 cyber tokens.

The Golden Thimble and green marble can be used at any time either for immunity or to "steal a spin", but this can be countered by giving up 1 blue card and 1 orange card.  These two cards are then randomly assigned to another rep.  A drawing takes place at the 24 hour mark to determine the multipliers of the marble and thimble.  This is done by having all 32 "reps" draw a piece of ribbon out of a deflated basketball.   The team with the shortest ribbon must show all of his cards (blue and red, but never orange... never orange).  Add his total number of cards and divide by 5.  Then multiple by the total number of cards.  That will be the multiplier for the thimble.  Repeat the process with the longest ribbon to determine the multiplier for the thimble.   You can not use either the thimble or marble on the structuring machines, but they can be traded for comparable value cards from the banker during the last hour.

It's pretty simple from here on out.  At the 36 hour market, a single padded sleeping cot will be wheeled into the room.  Whether or not the reps decide to mutually share or if a single team rep decides to "buy it" using cards will depend on who is involved in the lotto.   Be weary that the two "frauds" will be lurking with their fake cards.   

Teams can trade cards, marbles, the thimble and cyber-tokens at any point during the 72 hours... but you must utilize all of your cards by the end of the 72 hours.  Once all of the cyber tokens are acquired, a computer algorithm will use them to determine the final draft order.   Simply having the most cyber tokens does not guarantee you the #1 pick.   It merely means you have a 13.3% chance of landing 1 of the top 8 picks.   Having the least amount of cyber tokens guarantees you the #15 pick.   Having the second most cyber tokens guarantees you the #28 pick.   Having the second least cyber tokens guarantees you the #8 pick.   All other picks are determined via an unrelated raffle.     

« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 07:08:08 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2015, 07:17:32 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Drunk, bored, high, or all three?
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Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2015, 07:20:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Drunk, bored, high, or all three?
I think it works.

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2015, 07:33:02 PM »

Online Surferdad

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So the worst teams are gong to get fined, and loose their players. Never ending hole. And why would the owners punish themselves. Let the teams tank, you cant punish them for being bad.
Right exactly, because tanking and being bad are not the same thing and it is unfair group them together.

A for effort. 

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2015, 07:33:17 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Good thing you're under no obligation to keep your season tickets if you don't want to.

Good thing the owners of the team I root for care much more about me keeping my seats than you do.

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2015, 08:03:54 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Good thing you're under no obligation to keep your season tickets if you don't want to.

Good thing the owners of the team I root for care much more about me keeping my seats than you do.

What you're proposing is an unrealistic scenario: a world where season tickets are worth it because the team is never bad.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2015, 08:28:17 PM »

Offline BaronV

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

Because the point of sports is to win.  There shouldn't be rules built into the sport that make the fans question whether the teams are actually trying to do so.  If that happens the sport loses credibility.  Why would anyone want to watch?  Why would sponsors want to buy ads on the broadcasts of teams few people are watching?  Why would players want to play on a team whose executives have clearly tried to lose? 

I like the idea the OP put out there.  I've thought about something similar in baseball, where the draft isn't particularly meaningful, and teams don't tank for picks.  However, there are owners who purposefully maintain horrible teams with low payrolls for years and rake in revenue sharing and TV revenue, while giving their fan base an awful product.  The last ownership team in Tampa Bay was a great example of this.  They had the worst team in the majors, the worst stadium in the majors, and did nothing to improve either.  They alienated the fan base so badly that even when the new ownership team came on board and upgraded the team to the point that they were one of the best teams in the league and were regularly making the playoffs, their attendance was still horrible.

My idea on this was more direct than what the OP suggested but in a similar vein...force owners whose teams finish in last place in their division for more than X seasons to sell.  This should appeal to all the owners, as it makes the overall league product better, and therefore better able to generate larger TV contracts and gate receipts.  It isn't too harsh a punishment if you make that number at least three years, as that gets you outside the impact of a major injury or one bad signing.  While this wouldn't stop one year tank jobs like the Lakers did this year after Kobe got hurt, it would prevent the Philly-style multi-year tank job that alienates fans.

I think there should be a provision to prevent the single-year tank job too, but not sure what that should be.  I liked the 'wheel' idea that was kicking around before this season.  Another thing that could be done is to base draft position on a three-year rolling average (e.g. you take the overall record for the last three years and average it).  That would prevent what happened the year the Spurs landed Duncan, when they stunk for one year based on an injury to a star player, and would ensure that the bad teams get better picks than the team that just has, whether by circumstance or on purpose, one bad season.   I like the idea that was proposed in this thread of expanding the lottery to more than just the top three slots too, as that adds more risk for a tanking team. 

On the question of season ticket holders, it's not that easy.  There are often multi-year waiting lists to get them for good teams.  If you give up your tickets every time the team is bad, you risk not being able to get them back when the team is good, or getting much worse seats than you had.  Also, season tickets are somewhat of an investment.  Unless you plan to attend every home game yourself, you can sell some of your tickets on an exchange and make your money back.  If the team is doing well, you obviously get a lot more money for each ticket than you do if the team is obviously trying to lose every game. 

Anyway, my $.02

-V

Re: My NBA anti-tanking proposal
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2015, 08:33:24 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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I don't understand why tanking is a problem for people.

This, a million times over.  If a team wants to rebuild, that is their prerogative.