Author Topic: "Speculation" Monroe to sign with either Boston or NY (update on 1st page)  (Read 35433 times)

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Offline D.o.s.

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If we're talking about 'close to title contention' based on past results, the Knicks are closer to a 50+ win season than the Celtics are, and they have more of the same players left over.

Anyway, I think Monroe is too perfect for the triangle not to go to New York.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline Rondo9

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Locations are overrated now and days.

Offline Rondo9

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If we're talking about 'close to title contention' based on past results, the Knicks are closer to a 50+ win season than the Celtics are, and they have more of the same players left over.

Anyway, I think Monroe is too perfect for the triangle not to go to New York.

Yeah they had what? One over 50 win season and tanked 2 years in a row?

Offline D.o.s.

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If we're talking about 'close to title contention' based on past results, the Knicks are closer to a 50+ win season than the Celtics are, and they have more of the same players left over.

Anyway, I think Monroe is too perfect for the triangle not to go to New York.

Yeah they had what? One over 50 win season and tanked 2 years in a row?

At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline crimson_stallion

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If we're talking about 'close to title contention' based on past results, the Knicks are closer to a 50+ win season than the Celtics are, and they have more of the same players left over.

The Celtics franchise has 17 championships and have made the playoffs 8 times in the past decade, the most recent being this season (2014/15). 

The Knicks franchise has 2 championships, and have made the playoffs 3 times in the past decade, with the most recent being the 2012/13 season.

In what possible sense are the Knicks 'closer to a 50+ win season" than the Celtics are? Boston are just coming off a 40 win season, so they need an increase of 10 wins in order to make 50.  The Knicks are coming off a 17 win season, so they need an increase of 33 wins in order to make 50.

Also how do the Knicks have more players left over? There are only two guys on the current Knicks roster who were with the team during their last playoff run in 2012/13, and those guys are Carmelo Anthony and Andrei Bargnani - and the latter would have been dumped LONG ago if the Knicks could have found somebody willing to take him.  The current Knicks roster is basically composed of an injured Carmelo, an over the hill Bargnani, an over the hill Calderon, and a stack of D-League players.

Carmelo is an amazing offensive player, but he's also a pretty big defensive liability - we all know that.  There's no doubt you can go far with Melo as your leader, but you need to surround him with a lot of defensive talent.  There's a reason why the Melo-led Knicks only got far when they had a healthy Tyson Chandler on the court.  Adding Monroe at center is not going to make up for that. 

Even with Melo and their upcoming pick, the Knicks are still at least 1-2 full seasons away from getting to where the Celtics already are, and everybody knows that Boston has an owner with deep pockets, an ace GM in Ainge (who isn't afraid to make big moves), and a great young coach in Stevens.  Monroe is still young and if he goes to Boston it can only help his career - going to New York hasn't helped anybody in recent times except maybe Raymond Felton. 

Offline chambers

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CB Reader for a yr, 1st time poster.  Long-time Celts fan living in Chicago, my folks are still in CT. 

I feel you have to sign Monroe, all day, if given the opportunity.  Getting a FA talent upgrade just before the cap explodes, without any assets going out, is quite the fortunate position.  All the while maintaining great flexibility.   I think another poster mentioned something similar.  Leaves us with plenty of ammo to stalk the next trade for a star that comes spontaneously available, package our middling young (PF) talent with picks for another upgrade, or when Crash's contract expires, have enough space to sign 2 additional stars.

Only problem I'd have with this is if he wants a 2 year deal so he can hit the market in 2 years after entering his prime.
I'd want him locked up for 4 years at 15-18 million so we can use him as a trade centerpiece.

Good post though, and welcome.
TP
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Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline chambers

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If we're talking about 'close to title contention' based on past results, the Knicks are closer to a 50+ win season than the Celtics are, and they have more of the same players left over.

The Celtics franchise has 17 championships and have made the playoffs 8 times in the past decade, the most recent being this season (2014/15). 

The Knicks franchise has 2 championships, and have made the playoffs 3 times in the past decade, with the most recent being the 2012/13 season.

In what possible sense are the Knicks 'closer to a 50+ win season" than the Celtics are? Boston are just coming off a 40 win season, so they need an increase of 10 wins in order to make 50.  The Knicks are coming off a 17 win season, so they need an increase of 33 wins in order to make 50.

Also how do the Knicks have more players left over? There are only two guys on the current Knicks roster who were with the team during their last playoff run in 2012/13, and those guys are Carmelo Anthony and Andrei Bargnani - and the latter would have been dumped LONG ago if the Knicks could have found somebody willing to take him.  The current Knicks roster is basically composed of an injured Carmelo, an over the hill Bargnani, an over the hill Calderon, and a stack of D-League players.

Carmelo is an amazing offensive player, but he's also a pretty big defensive liability - we all know that.  There's no doubt you can go far with Melo as your leader, but you need to surround him with a lot of defensive talent.  There's a reason why the Melo-led Knicks only got far when they had a healthy Tyson Chandler on the court.  Adding Monroe at center is not going to make up for that. 

Even with Melo and their upcoming pick, the Knicks are still at least 1-2 full seasons away from getting to where the Celtics already are, and everybody knows that Boston has an owner with deep pockets, an ace GM in Ainge (who isn't afraid to make big moves), and a great young coach in Stevens.  Monroe is still young and if he goes to Boston it can only help his career - going to New York hasn't helped anybody in recent times except maybe Raymond Felton.

-Cap space to sign 2 max players
-premier desirable location for free agents
-top 4 pick
-top 10/15 player

Carmelo is not a defensive liability lol.
Even Lebron has said Carmelo is the best defender vs him at times.

You wouldn't trade our current situation for theirs?
They are 1 or 2 free agents away from being a top 4 team in the East at a minimum.
I only wish we had a top 15 player, cap room for 2 mqx guys and a top 5 pick lol.

-A top 10/15 player in his prime who just took a year off.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline crimson_stallion

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-Cap space to sign 2 max players
-premier desirable location for free agents
-top 4 pick
-top 10/15 player

For how long have teams like Sacramento and Minnesota had most of the above, and yet they have sucked on a permanent basis. 

So what do you think is going to happen? 

Monroe and Aldridge decide to join Carmelo and sign with New York (because the bright lights are just too irresistible, and they don't really care about getting touches anyway) and then the Knicks get lucky with #4 and choose a guy who ends up being the next Chris Paul (rather than the next Aaron Gordon), then the Knicks fire their garbage coach and hire Thibbs, and then the Knicks go on to win 6 championships?

Wishful thinking.

Just as likely scenario is that no big name free agents sign with them because the big stars (like Aldridge) don't want to be Carmelo's #2 sidekick, and the smaller stars (like Monroe) don't want to go to a team that just won 17 games.  New York head office drastically overpay and throw a max contract at some guys who don't deserve it (like Tristan Thompson and Tobias Harris.  New York's #4 pick ends up taking 2-3 years to develop into a starting caliber player.  New York keeps their crappy coaching staff.  Knicks make the high lottery for the next 3 years and then Melo walks and they do another rebuild. 

Carmelo is not a defensive liability lol.

Even Lebron has said Carmelo is the best defender vs him at times.

Lebron also said he wouldn't leave Cleveland - then he signed with Miami.  Then he said he as going to win 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 championships - he's still stuck on two.

I have total respect for what Lebron can do on a court, but I really pay no attention to the verbal diarrhea that constantly comes out of his mouth.

Carmelo has a Defensive RPM of -2.09 which ranks him 71/86 (bottom 18% in the league) among NBA small forwards.  To call Anthony a 'below average' defender is being generous, to say the least, and I'm pretty sure you'll find that 90% of people out there will concur with that statement.

You wouldn't trade our current situation for theirs?

Not in a million years.

The thing many people don't realise is that there are basically three possible positions for teams to be in right now:

1) Not competitive now, but many assets for adding talent in the future
2) Competitive now, but not many assets tor adding talent in the future
3) Competitive now and many assets for adding talent in the future

Boston are one of the select few teams that fit in category #3.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 12:46:59 AM by crimson_stallion »

Offline chambers

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-Cap space to sign 2 max players
-premier desirable location for free agents
-top 4 pick
-top 10/15 player

For how long have teams like Sacramento and Minnesota had most of the above, and yet they have sucked on a permanent basis. 

So what do you think is going to happen? 

Monroe and Aldridge decide to join Carmelo and sign with New York (because the bright lights are just too irresistible, and they don't really care about getting touches anyway) and then the Knicks get lucky with #4 and choose a guy who ends up being the next Chris Paul (rather than the next Aaron Gordon), then the Knicks fire their garbage coach and hire Thibbs, and then the Knicks go on to win 6 championships?

Wishful thinking.

Just as likely scenario is that no big name free agents sign with them because the big stars (like Aldridge) don't want to be Carmelo's #2 sidekick, and the smaller stars (like Monroe) don't want to go to a team that just won 17 games.  New York head office drastically overpay and throw a max contract at some guys who don't deserve it (like Tristan Thompson and Tobias Harris.  New York's #4 pick ends up taking 2-3 years to develop into a starting caliber player.  New York keeps their crappy coaching staff.  Knicks make the high lottery for the next 3 years and then Melo walks and they do another rebuild. 

Carmelo is not a defensive liability lol.

Even Lebron has said Carmelo is the best defender vs him at times.
Lebron also said he wouldn't leave Cleveland - then he signed with Miami.  Then he said he as going to win 3 and 4 and 5 and 6 and 7 championships - he's still stuck on two.

I have total respect for what Lebron can do on a court, but I really pay no attention to the verbal diarrhea that constantly comes out of his mouth.

Carmelo has a Defensive RPM of -2.09 which ranks him 71/86 (bottom 18% in the league) among NBA small forwards.  To call Anthony a 'below average' defender is being generous, to say the least, and I'm pretty sure you'll find that 90% of people out there will concur with that statement.

You wouldn't trade our current situation for theirs?

Not in a million years.

The thing many people don't realise is that there are basically three possible positions for teams to be in right now:

1) Not competitive now, but many assets for adding talent in the future
2) Competitive now, but not many assets tor adding talent in the future
3) Competitive now and many assets for adding talent in the future

Boston are one of the select few teams that fit in category #3.

Lol you either hate Carmelo or hate New York because you're turning a simple case into a detailed analysis without much substance.

What do we have that they would prefer,  or any other team in the NBA would prefer, other than our coach?
Here are the facts....
1)
-They have a top 10/15 player. (Carmelo). He is a top 5 scorer in the NBA. I'd argue it's not entirely fair to use his dprm in a season he obviously' took off' that included Bargani and Quincy Acy as his defensive bigs. I'd also argue that his defensive effort would improve if motivated and contending.
Carmelo's power on offense is incredible to his team and the unit in the floor. When he's on the floor the Knicks have been top 3 in assist ratio and over 75% EFG. That's a guy that draws doubles like Lebron James but finds open guys AND can hit the jumpshot if needed.  They have Hardaway Jr and Galloway,  not as good as our young role players in Bradley, Sully, Okynyk, Smart and Zeller-but they HAVE that guy we're desperate to acquire. And don't tell me Ainge would bring Melo here at the drop of a hat if he could.

-We have a top 40-50 player in IT and those above role players.
2)
-They have a top 4 pick in a very good draft and a great selection of talent.
-we have the 16th pick with the ability to perhaps move up into the top 10 if other teams are interested. We also have some Brooklyn picks and a dallas pick which might be late lottery or in the 20's. They're okay picks but more valuable as assets if a superstar becomes available and a team wants a bunch of mid first round po picks. I'd rather have Carmelo Anthony in his prime with cap room for 2 guys in a mega location.
I'd personally prefer the 4th pick to than our picks.
3)
-they have cap room for 2 max free agents whilst ALREADY having a top 15 player and top 5 scorer in the NBA.
-we have cap room for 2 max free agents if we move Wallace and we also have Marcus Smart, Isaiah Thomas and Brad Stevens.

4) They are New York- a top 3 market in the USA and pro sports which helps them in their quest for top tier free agents.

You seriously wouldn't give up our loot of role players and middle first round picks for Carmelo, the #4 pick, and room for 2 max guys with Brad Stevens at the helm?

If not, then we'll have to agree to disagree I guess.
easy choice for me.


« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 05:36:47 PM by chambers »
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline LGC88

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Well, good points from both of you.
To me it sums up to this :
They have the name : NEW YORK
And for that only they can make anything they want to happen. But somehow, they manage to f... up each year since a long time now.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I hope that if the Knicks do get Monroe, they keep their pick (unless they trade it to us for peanuts).  The more teams that are potentially keeping the Nets out of the playoffs, the better.

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
4) They are New York- a top 3 market in the USA and pro sports which helps them in their quest for top tier free agents.

5) they have the zen master too

Offline D.o.s.

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If we're talking about 'close to title contention' based on past results, the Knicks are closer to a 50+ win season than the Celtics are, and they have more of the same players left over.

The Celtics franchise has 17 championships and have made the playoffs 8 times in the past decade, the most recent being this season (2014/15). 

The Knicks franchise has 2 championships, and have made the playoffs 3 times in the past decade, with the most recent being the 2012/13 season.

In what possible sense are the Knicks 'closer to a 50+ win season" than the Celtics are? Boston are just coming off a 40 win season, so they need an increase of 10 wins in order to make 50.  The Knicks are coming off a 17 win season, so they need an increase of 33 wins in order to make 50.

Also how do the Knicks have more players left over? There are only two guys on the current Knicks roster who were with the team during their last playoff run in 2012/13, and those guys are Carmelo Anthony and Andrei Bargnani - and the latter would have been dumped LONG ago if the Knicks could have found somebody willing to take him.  The current Knicks roster is basically composed of an injured Carmelo, an over the hill Bargnani, an over the hill Calderon, and a stack of D-League players.

Carmelo is an amazing offensive player, but he's also a pretty big defensive liability - we all know that.  There's no doubt you can go far with Melo as your leader, but you need to surround him with a lot of defensive talent.  There's a reason why the Melo-led Knicks only got far when they had a healthy Tyson Chandler on the court.  Adding Monroe at center is not going to make up for that. 

Even with Melo and their upcoming pick, the Knicks are still at least 1-2 full seasons away from getting to where the Celtics already are, and everybody knows that Boston has an owner with deep pockets, an ace GM in Ainge (who isn't afraid to make big moves), and a great young coach in Stevens.  Monroe is still young and if he goes to Boston it can only help his career - going to New York hasn't helped anybody in recent times except maybe Raymond Felton.

I will refer you to Foghorn Leghorn,  but to clarify:the phrase "If we're talking about 'close to title contention' based on past results," because the Knicks last won 50+ games in 2012 and the Celtics haven't cracked it since 2011.

The fact that neither has anything to do with the prospects going forward is exactly the joke.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline Neurotic Guy

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The thing many people don't realise is that there are basically three possible positions for teams to be in right now:

1) Not competitive now, but many assets for adding talent in the future
2) Competitive now, but not many assets tor adding talent in the future
3) Competitive now and many assets for adding talent in the future

Boston are one of the select few teams that fit in category #3.

I disagree with your assessment:  The Cs are in in category #1 above, not #3.   

This team is competetive if your hope is to compete for a late seed in the East. 

Offline MBunge

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The thing many people don't realise is that there are basically three possible positions for teams to be in right now:

1) Not competitive now, but many assets for adding talent in the future
2) Competitive now, but not many assets tor adding talent in the future
3) Competitive now and many assets for adding talent in the future

Boston are one of the select few teams that fit in category #3.

I disagree with your assessment:  The Cs are in in category #1 above, not #3.   

This team is competetive if your hope is to compete for a late seed in the East.

What do you mean by "competitive?"  If it's "have a legitimate chance at winning a title," there's never more than 5 or 7 of those teams, they usually stay the same for 4 or 5 years and then those teams fall back and it often takes a long time for them to get back to "competitive."  A by a long time, it's not odd for decades to pass between title contention.

Mike