Author Topic: Bill Russell or Lebron?  (Read 6254 times)

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Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2015, 11:11:34 PM »

Offline Denis998

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also note the omission of Bird

Abdul-Jabbar wasn't chopped liver.
I call for a All NBA second jersey team.

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2015, 12:18:08 AM »

Offline GratefulCs

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When I think of greatness, I think of the things one had to overcome. The mountains that one had to climb, the dragons one had to slay in order to achieve one's goals. Given this as a premise ( and some may argue  it's  a faulty one) and the courage and determination  the premise implies, Bill Russell makes le bron  james look like a little boy.

My screen name is actually a misnomer. I attended my first Celts game on a Saturday in the fall of 1959 vs Wilt'sWarriors. (Honestly, I was a little kid and I dont remember much about the game except the hotdogs and the popcorn and that our Celts won and my dad screaming some bad things at Wilt.) I think that I was vain in creating my screen name and not wanting to own up to being a csfsnsince50s.

Anyway, I followed the Cs ever since, maybe going to 2-3 games a year but always listening to the "fiddling and diddling " on the radio and the sports pages and the very, very infrequent TV games.

I didn't know a lot about Bill Russell, the person, back in the 60s. His struggles against racism, his political sensitivity and attuness and consequent personal struggles, his background of almost not making his high school team and the lack of interest in his basketball by colleges.

His greatness to me doesn't come from winning 11 titles alone. It comes from all the adversity  he had to overcome to get to the position were he got a chance to win titles.

His last two titles to me are the most impressive,  and from a sports perspective I fully understood their greatness even then. In '68 at age 34 the Cs were down 3-1 to Wilts now ' 6ers and became  at the time the first team to ever come back and win a series , led by a determined, clutch Russell in a real frantic finish. He held Wilt to 2 shots in the 2nd  Half of game 7. They  then went on to beat the Lakers in six.

In '69, as 4th seed and stumbling to the regular season finish, the Russell coached and inspired Cs beat favored Philly and New York and then beat the Heavily favored a Wilt/Elgin /Logo original Big 3 Lakers in  a 7 game Tong war. Russ had 21 rebounds in that game 7.

THATS determination....THAT's courage.... When the anointed one (sickening) who has had everything handed to him accomplishes anything remotely similar to that, get back to me.
beautiful post



TP


One TP doesn't do it justice
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2015, 01:27:44 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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When I think of greatness, I think of the things one had to overcome. The mountains that one had to climb, the dragons one had to slay in order to achieve one's goals. Given this as a premise ( and some may argue  it's  a faulty one) and the courage and determination  the premise implies, Bill Russell makes le bron  james look like a little boy.

My screen name is actually a misnomer. I attended my first Celts game on a Saturday in the fall of 1959 vs Wilt'sWarriors. (Honestly, I was a little kid and I dont remember much about the game except the hotdogs and the popcorn and that our Celts won and my dad screaming some bad things at Wilt.) I think that I was vain in creating my screen name and not wanting to own up to being a csfsnsince50s.

Anyway, I followed the Cs ever since, maybe going to 2-3 games a year but always listening to the "fiddling and diddling " on the radio and the sports pages and the very, very infrequent TV games.

I didn't know a lot about Bill Russell, the person, back in the 60s. His struggles against racism, his political sensitivity and attuness and consequent personal struggles, his background of almost not making his high school team and the lack of interest in his basketball by colleges.

His greatness to me doesn't come from winning 11 titles alone. It comes from all the adversity  he had to overcome to get to the position were he got a chance to win titles.

His last two titles to me are the most impressive,  and from a sports perspective I fully understood their greatness even then. In '68 at age 34 the Cs were down 3-1 to Wilts now ' 6ers and became  at the time the first team to ever come back and win a series , led by a determined, clutch Russell in a real frantic finish. He held Wilt to 2 shots in the 2nd  Half of game 7. They  then went on to beat the Lakers in six.

In '69, as 4th seed and stumbling to the regular season finish, the Russell coached and inspired Cs beat favored Philly and New York and then beat the Heavily favored a Wilt/Elgin /Logo original Big 3 Lakers in  a 7 game Tong war. Russ had 21 rebounds in that game 7.

THATS determination....THAT's courage.... When the anointed one (sickening) who has had everything handed to him accomplishes anything remotely similar to that, get back to me.
beautiful post



TP


One TP doesn't do it justice

Thanks for the kind words....TP BACK ATCHA.

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2015, 02:19:18 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Great post, csfan. The stories you told are what many of us don't have and go a long way to help us understand the history of the Cs and present-day comparisons.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 02:55:56 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2015, 02:42:07 AM »

Offline Greyman

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Russell for two reasons, you can only play the teams put in front of you - and against those he won more than any other player. Secondly, when he had to fight and wasn't favourite, he still managed to win.

Le Bron has skills Russell didn't and he is an outstanding athlete - but he isn't able to be the difference maker often enough to be considered better.

TP to csfansince60s who said it better and has been there to see it.

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2015, 04:04:24 AM »

Offline ederson

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I attended my first Celts game on a Saturday in the fall of 1959 vs Wilt'sWarriors.

 :o :o :o :o :o

respect !

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2015, 08:10:59 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Of the many infractions Lebron's committed over the years, the worst for me was when he stopped wearing number 23, made a big deal about anyone else wearing it, calling it disrespectful to an all time great and the history of the game . . . and then . . . switched to number 6??!!!

Slap across the face, Celtics!!


And, not even a mention of the Doctor?

Philly fans should be livid.

I think that the reason he gave for #6 was that Dr. J was his favorite player growing up, so there's no disrespect toward him there.

The complete oversight toward Russell is unforgivable, though, especially since saying that the reason for the switch was because MJ is the best of all-time and nobody should wear his jersey.  (We all know the real reason:  #23 is retired in Miami, and that's where he intended to sign all along.)
Yeah but if he switched teams he would not have had to fill out the jersey number paperwork.  He only had to do that to stay with Cleveland and switch jersey numbers.  I truly believe he really didn't know where he was going to play.  I recall a number of stories that the Cavs and Raptors had worked out a sign and trade for Bosh, but Bosh just didn't want to go to Cleveland.  Imagine how much different things would have been had Bosh just gone to Cleveland.
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Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2015, 10:09:06 AM »

Offline biggs

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Of the many infractions Lebron's committed over the years, the worst for me was when he stopped wearing number 23, made a big deal about anyone else wearing it, calling it disrespectful to an all time great and the history of the game . . . and then . . . switched to number 6??!!!

Slap across the face, Celtics!!


And, not even a mention of the Doctor?

Philly fans should be livid.

I think that the reason he gave for #6 was that Dr. J was his favorite player growing up, so there's no disrespect toward him there.

The complete oversight toward Russell is unforgivable, though, especially since saying that the reason for the switch was because MJ is the best of all-time and nobody should wear his jersey.  (We all know the real reason:  #23 is retired in Miami, and that's where he intended to sign all along.)

Right? Lebron was barely old enough to have claimed to watch Jordan growing up, let alone the Doctor.
Truuuuuuuuuth!

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2015, 10:36:07 AM »

Offline greece66

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There is enough footage readily available at YouTube to see that Russell was an outstanding athlete by any standards.

The real difference is that bball technique was not developed at the team, nor did the players have the coaching and health specialist support they have today. Actually, they hardly were professionals as many had to work in the summer.

But I really wonder every time I read ppl saying "Russell was good for his era", have people actually made the effort to make a google video search?

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2015, 10:46:13 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Of the many infractions Lebron's committed over the years, the worst for me was when he stopped wearing number 23, made a big deal about anyone else wearing it, calling it disrespectful to an all time great and the history of the game . . . and then . . . switched to number 6??!!!

Slap across the face, Celtics!!


And, not even a mention of the Doctor?

Philly fans should be livid.

I think that the reason he gave for #6 was that Dr. J was his favorite player growing up, so there's no disrespect toward him there.

The complete oversight toward Russell is unforgivable, though, especially since saying that the reason for the switch was because MJ is the best of all-time and nobody should wear his jersey.  (We all know the real reason:  #23 is retired in Miami, and that's where he intended to sign all along.)

Right? Lebron was barely old enough to have claimed to watch Jordan growing up, let alone the Doctor.

On the flip side, Jordan was dominating when LeBron was right around the most impressionable age for sports fans. And it's really not that difficult to imagine someone like LeBron being impressed upon by the idea Dr. J, if not the reality.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2015, 11:22:13 AM »

Offline loco_91

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When I think of greatness, I think of the things one had to overcome. The mountains that one had to climb, the dragons one had to slay in order to achieve one's goals. Given this as a premise ( and some may argue  it's  a faulty one) and the courage and determination  the premise implies, Bill Russell makes le bron  james look like a little boy.

My screen name is actually a misnomer. I attended my first Celts game on a Saturday in the fall of 1959 vs Wilt'sWarriors. (Honestly, I was a little kid and I dont remember much about the game except the hotdogs and the popcorn and that our Celts won and my dad screaming some bad things at Wilt.) I think that I was vain in creating my screen name and not wanting to own up to being a csfsnsince50s.

Anyway, I followed the Cs ever since, maybe going to 2-3 games a year but always listening to the "fiddling and diddling " on the radio and the sports pages and the very, very infrequent TV games.

I didn't know a lot about Bill Russell, the person, back in the 60s. His struggles against racism, his political sensitivity and attuness and consequent personal struggles, his background of almost not making his high school team and the lack of interest in his basketball by colleges.

His greatness to me doesn't come from winning 11 titles alone. It comes from all the adversity  he had to overcome to get to the position were he got a chance to win titles.

His last two titles to me are the most impressive,  and from a sports perspective I fully understood their greatness even then. In '68 at age 34 the Cs were down 3-1 to Wilts now ' 6ers and became  at the time the first team to ever come back and win a series after being down 3-1 , led by a determined, clutch Russell in a real frantic finish. He held Wilt to 2 shots in the 2nd  Half of game 7. They  then went on to beat the Lakers in six.

In '69, as 4th seed and stumbling to the regular season finish, the Russell coached and inspired Cs beat favored Philly and New York and then beat the Heavily favored Wilt/Elgin /Logo original Big 3 Lakers in  a 7 game Tong war. Russ had 21 rebounds in that game 7.

THATS determination....THAT's courage.... When the anointed one (sickening) who has had everything handed to him accomplishes anything remotely similar to that, get back to me.

TP.

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2015, 02:41:56 PM »

Offline boscel33

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I'll take Russell for two reasons.  he played in an era when the game was tougher.  I can't see Lebron playing back when Bill did.  I don't believe he has the toughness to do it.  That said, bring Bill to this generation's NBA and I believe he would continue to dominate, albeit at the 4 not 5.
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Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2015, 03:33:10 PM »

Offline td450

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A couple of things people should remember about Bill Russell:

He won 2 California state high school basketball championships
He won 2 NCAA basketball championships
He was once the 7th ranked high jumper in the world, despite a limited track and field career.
He ran the 440 in 49.6 seconds (that's close to all-state fast, in case you are wondering)

I'm not going to even get into the fact that he was a more impressive person and leader than he was a ball player

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2015, 04:01:59 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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LOL only Ohio and Wyoming (???) chose LeBron over Russell for best to wear number 6.

Hypocritically, many of them wanted to BURN number 6 just a few years ago.

Now? They adore LeBron SO MUCH that they want to be ignorant of HISTORY and what Bill Russell did for not only basketball - but HUMANITY.



I get that LeBron did a courageous thing, admittedly, in coming back home, but STILL...

...but whom am I to tell Ohioans how to think?

Slightly off-topic, but I would've LOVED for Lebron to have competed in the 80's and 90's......this kind of jersey ranking would've been different if he would've had to compete against Dr. J, Michael Jordan, Scotty, Magic, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Grant Hill, Larry Bird....any other GREAT SG-SF I may have inadvertently left off the list.

Even Paul Pierce Prime or Kobe Prime would've made Lebron's current Superman-ness seemed - human.

LeBron is a GREAT player and I like him as a person, but ESPN needs to slow down a bit on Godmode for LeBron....or perhaps they need to hit the books a bit more.

Re: Bill Russell or Lebron?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2015, 04:14:22 PM »

Offline bdm860

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I find the methodology behind the original list to be garbage, highlighted by things like Oscar Robertson for #1 (wore #14 in his prime) and Karl Malone for #11 (wore #32 in his prime), a lot of good players getting excluded off the list because of entries like that.  Only surprised they didn't include Jordan for #12 too.

That's like putting together a team of greatest Celtics made up of:

G - Gary Payton
G - Pete Maravich
F - Dominique Wilkins
F - Rasheed Wallace
C - Shaquille O'Neal

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class