Cousins and Nerlens Noel Frontcourt

[Celtics18]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

No, they aren't.  That's why you look at multiple stats and evidence and the good old fashioned eye test and put it all together, and, voila . . . you get Nerlens Noel as a top ten defensive player in the NBA. 

[Eddie20]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

[LarBrd33]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

[Eddie20]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

Gobert or Noel?

You dodge questions like a politician. TP!

How exactly has his offense improved? Can you elaborate?

[max215]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

And Noel will never be more than a footnote offensively, while Smart could become a guy who averages 15-20 ppg on 40% from three. Both players have their limitations. As I've said many times before, I'm a big fan of both Noel and Smart, but I will go so far as to say that Nerlens will never be the face of a franchise, Smart has the tools to potentially become one someday.

[LarBrd33]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

Gobert or Noel?

You dodge questions like a politician. TP!

How exactly has his offense improved? Can you elaborate?

It's irrelevant.  This forum doesn't post weekly threads irrationally believing that gobert is available.  But if they start doing that, I'll be quick to point out why Utah isn't trading him without at least getting Marcus smart and extra assets in the deal. 

[Eddie20]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

Gobert or Noel?

You dodge questions like a politician. TP!

How exactly has his offense improved? Can you elaborate?

It's irrelevant.  This forum doesn't post weekly threads irrationally believing that gobert is available.  But if they start doing that, I'll be quick to point out why Utah isn't trading him without at least getting Marcus smart and extra assets in the deal.

So you only discuss things with relevancy? Is that why you recently delivered a 1000 word post, with photos and all, on the benefits of trading the 16th pick for Anthony Bennett?

[tazzmaniac]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

Gobert or Noel?

You dodge questions like a politician. TP!

How exactly has his offense improved? Can you elaborate?

I haven't seen enough of Gobert to comment on him.  Noel improved offensively throughout the season and especially after the MCW trade.  He is still quite raw but is no longer the offensive equivalent of a deer in headlights.  He is actually a pretty good passer.  Comparing Noel and WCS, I'd say Noel has better offensive potential.   

[Celtics18]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

And Noel will never be more than a footnote offensively, while Smart could become a guy who averages 15-20 ppg on 40% from three. Both players have their limitations. As I've said many times before, I'm a big fan of both Noel and Smart, but I will go so far as to say that Nerlens will never be the face of a franchise, Smart has the tools to potentially become one someday.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marcus Smart, and don't want to give him up for anything, but Nerlens put up better offensive numbers than Marcus last year. 

Why do you see the potential for Smart to improve so much offensively, but don't see any such potential for Noel?

I find that strange. 

[LarBrd33]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

Gobert or Noel?

You dodge questions like a politician. TP!

How exactly has his offense improved? Can you elaborate?

It's irrelevant.  This forum doesn't post weekly threads irrationally believing that gobert is available.  But if they start doing that, I'll be quick to point out why Utah isn't trading him without at least getting Marcus smart and extra assets in the deal.

So you only discuss things with relevancy? Is that why you recently delivered a 1000 word post, with photos and all, on the benefits of trading the 16th pick for Anthony Bennett?

Lol tp

Noel has a higher ceiling imo. His hands and ability to defend multiple positions can translate to a more complete defensive force.  His offense needs work, but Noel looks like he can eventually anchor a defense like kg did in his prime.

[max215]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

And Noel will never be more than a footnote offensively, while Smart could become a guy who averages 15-20 ppg on 40% from three. Both players have their limitations. As I've said many times before, I'm a big fan of both Noel and Smart, but I will go so far as to say that Nerlens will never be the face of a franchise, Smart has the tools to potentially become one someday.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marcus Smart, and don't want to give him up for anything, but Nerlens put up better offensive numbers than Marcus last year. 

Why do you see the potential for Smart to improve so much offensively, but don't see any such potential for Noel?

I find that strange.

1. The eye test
2. Nerlens played more minutes and took more shots per game
3. This plays into the eye test, but I'm encouraged by Smart's clutch shooting and decent 3PT% for a rookie
4. College numbers
5. Team role- the Cs were making a playoff push and giving minutes to the likes of ET and IT, while the 6ers were able to let Nerlens just go out there and play

At the end of the day, it's just my opinion, but hopefully this clears my thought process up a bit.

[KG Living Legend]

Larbrd, it says in the original post that smart and sully are gone that's why the back court was Bradley Thomas, cause Bradley is not the best chip with his salary.

[Celtics18]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

And Noel will never be more than a footnote offensively, while Smart could become a guy who averages 15-20 ppg on 40% from three. Both players have their limitations. As I've said many times before, I'm a big fan of both Noel and Smart, but I will go so far as to say that Nerlens will never be the face of a franchise, Smart has the tools to potentially become one someday.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marcus Smart, and don't want to give him up for anything, but Nerlens put up better offensive numbers than Marcus last year. 

Why do you see the potential for Smart to improve so much offensively, but don't see any such potential for Noel?

I find that strange.

1. The eye test
2. Nerlens played more minutes and took more shots per game
3. This plays into the eye test, but I'm encouraged by Smart's clutch shooting and decent 3PT% for a rookie

At the end of the day, it's just my opinion, but hopefully this clears my thought process up a bit.

I'd be surprised if Noel doesn't improve offensively.

Firstly, based on sheer size, length and athleticism, he's going to be hard to stop inside, particularly if he ever plays with more skilled perimeter players who can help open things up for him on the interior and get him the ball in scoring position.

Secondly, he showed rudimentary improvements on the offensive end as the season progressed.  He occasionally showed an ugly little jumper, which he seems intent on fine tuning.  He has some face up game, which I also think he'll keep working on.  His back to the basket game leaves a lot to be desired, but, heck lots of good offensive bigs don't have much in the way of a post game these days.

He'll get better offensively, I feel sure of that.  I don't know how much, but he will improve. 

[max215]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Listen, you could harp about him being a good defender all you want, which I'm not denying, only disagreeing at the pedestal (top 5-10 defender) you have him at. However, what you won't dare touch, and continue to ignore, is what a below average offensive player he is. Have you seen any improvement in him offensively since he was at Kentucky? So essentially what you're saying is that it would take Smart, #16 pick (say Portis), and "a lot more" for a one way player?

Yep.

Yep, you've seen him improve offensively or you would do that trade? Regardless, let's talk about his offense, shall we?

Would you rather have Noel or Gobert? Just curious.

Yep to both.  Smart is a 1-way player right now too, but he will never single handedly make a team defense from 24th to 3rd...

You'd have to give up smart + 16 + more to get gobert as well.

And Noel will never be more than a footnote offensively, while Smart could become a guy who averages 15-20 ppg on 40% from three. Both players have their limitations. As I've said many times before, I'm a big fan of both Noel and Smart, but I will go so far as to say that Nerlens will never be the face of a franchise, Smart has the tools to potentially become one someday.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marcus Smart, and don't want to give him up for anything, but Nerlens put up better offensive numbers than Marcus last year. 

Why do you see the potential for Smart to improve so much offensively, but don't see any such potential for Noel?

I find that strange.

1. The eye test
2. Nerlens played more minutes and took more shots per game
3. This plays into the eye test, but I'm encouraged by Smart's clutch shooting and decent 3PT% for a rookie

At the end of the day, it's just my opinion, but hopefully this clears my thought process up a bit.

I'd be surprised if Noel doesn't improve offensively.

Firstly, based on sheer size, length and athleticism, he's going to be hard to stop inside, particularly if he ever plays with more skilled perimeter players who can help open things up for him on the interior and get him the ball in scoring position.

Secondly, he showed rudimentary improvements on the offensive end as the season progressed.  He occasionally showed an ugly little jumper, which he seems intent on fine tuning.  He has some face up game, which I also think he'll keep working on.  His back to the basket game leaves a lot to be desired, but, heck lots of good offensive bigs don't have much in the way of a post game these days.

He'll get better offensively, I feel sure of that.  I don't know how much, but he will improve.

I agree that he'll improve, I just don't think his ceiling is particularly high on the offensive side of the ball. Regardless, I hope he does become a passable offensive player so I'll be that much more elated when we snatch him up in a sign and trade when he's an RFA in 2017.

[Roy H.]

He just put up historical defensive numbers for a player his age.  He's already a top 5-10 defensive player in the league

The first sentence is true, the second isn't. 

In terms of blocks and steals, very few players have put them together in combination like Noel has.  He's an active defender, and fills up the stat sheet.

However, he's still a work in progress.  If you look at his synergy stats, there were some areas of defense that he really struggled with.

Didn't he finish 8th in the league defensive rating?  I remember reading that post all-star break, philly had the best defense in the entire league in minutes noel was on the court.   He also limited opponents to 45% shooting at the rim... 6th in the league.

Big Al finsihed 14th and Scola 20th so they're both top 20 defenders.

Neat.  Where are the stats disproving Noel's defensive dominance as a 20 year old rookie coming off major surgery with a single limited season of college ball on his resume?  Only 20 times has anyone put up his blocks and steals... 10 of times times were Hakeem.  For the season philly was a top 12 defense.  24th with noel on the bench.  Top 3 with him playing.  You aren't getting a player with his potential for mediocre picks and players. It will take a package built around Marcus smart.

Side note:  in lowes recent podcast they actually talked about how Kevin love should study Luis scola to learn how to play defense with limited physical gifts.  They mentioned how Frank Vogel shows tape of him to reach young prospects verticality... Since he has none and makes the most of it with effort and defensive intangibles. So I'm not sure why you listed him...

I agree that Scola's poor defensive reputation isn't deserved.  He was fairly good last year.

In terms of the stats I was referencing:

He ranks in the bottom 37th percentile in terms of points allowed per possession in the post;

He ranks in the bottom 33rd percentile defensively on isolation plays;

He ranks in the bottom 24th percentile in points allowed per possession on spot-ups;

He ranks in the bottom 19th percentile in defending the pick-and-roll (roll man)

Ranking in the bottom third of the league in so many key defensive areas makes me question his defense, despite his number of steals and blocks.  Like a lot of young guys, he appears to be going for flashy plays, rather than solid defensive fundamentals.  I expect he'll develop, but he's realistically not even a good defender in a lot of areas now, let alone a great one.