Author Topic: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft  (Read 11154 times)

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Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2015, 11:58:34 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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- The chances we can bring in key FAs this upcoming season are slim to none.

-  Better chance to pickup key FAs from the 2016 FA period.

- There are alot more pf prospects coming in to workout for the Celtics than the past seasons.

- As much as I'm not a fan of Portis because we could use a frontcourt plus defender , he can spread the floor and has good quickness and overall size for a  pf. He had a good interview a few days ago and sounded like a positive guy.  Add 10-15 pounds of strength and who knows . If Ainge sees something in him, go for it. Also would not mind taking a risk at Upshaw at 16

- Add Jordan Mickey at 28 and you get that shot blocker on the team that you can put in in many different situations. Especiqlly if yoy got a guy like Lawson driving in at will.  Lob target also. Good defensive rebounder

- With the 33rd you can then draft the best shooter avalable or draft and stash

-  Same with the 45.

-At least one draft and stash (and there are lots of good looking ones) due to tight roster space

- do not reisgn Bass. Resign Jerebko that fits under cbs system

- trade Zeller for a future pick.

Lineup

C -  Portis
PF - Sullinger
SF - Turner
SG - AB
PG - Smart - more ball handling responsibility

Bench

C - KO
PF- Jerebko/Mickey
SF - Crowder
SG - Young/45th pick (3 pt shpoting specialists)
Pg - IT/Pressey

Thoughts?

Wait, what?

So many questions...

Why are our chances "slim to none" to sign a key free agent? The reports about Love should be a confidence builder. If not, we can still target other guys such as Middleton, Monroe, etc.

So you think it's better to wait until 2016 to sign a free agent when EVERYONE has cap space, rather than this season when few teams do?

A lot of prospects are coming in because we have a lot of picks.

Upshaw at 16 is too much of a reach. He may sneak into the second round as is.

You and Mickey. He's a projected late 1st/early 2nd pick for a reason. A hope for the best pick , but you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect him to come in and play meaningful minutes from the start.

Isn't getting "the best shooter at #33" sort of like getting the best steak you can buy for a dollar?

Reality is there is no indication Love will come here.  Woj can speculate all he wants.

Love probably doesn't even know himself. Depending with what happens with the Cavs vs GSW

what the Lakers offer etc. 

Do you want to overpay 15 million a season for a guy like Jordan? A guy that can't make FAs

near the end of games?   Not the kind of player CBS is going to push Danny to bring in


the Draft helps CBS get the type of players he wants. Gives him the opportunity to mold them

the way he wants to.



Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2015, 12:02:58 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Welcome into the "Portis isn't bad at 16" camp Triboy. I agree this team needs to build through the draft in general as FAs are unlikely. But let's see if they strike out on FAs first before we deal some nice young players. If Cs strike out then think about moving Sully, Turner, AB, Zeller and even IT  :(. I think having a shot at Lab and Simmons could be Durant, Griffin and/or Davis like in one draft so I have no worries about taking a step back. I don't want Mikey at 28. I want Upshaw, Woods, Harrell, Vezenkov or Justin Anderson there. At 33 I'd be okay with Mickey or Alexander.

I kind of hope team lands Gasol and Butler in FA or decides to build through the draft. I want elite players or continue building. Lab and Simmons seem like the real deal way above Okafor and Towns. Lab and Simmons look like game and franchise changers.

Mickey will not be there at 33. I would be surprise.   He is one of the most explosive and athletic pfs in the draft . We can really use his defensive capability. 

Don't think Upshaw will be there at 28 (I would take him there).  I would take Mickey over Harrell. Also over Wood (too thin).  Anderson won't be available at 28 and Vezenkov should be available at 33.   

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2015, 12:32:30 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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I don't know if we'll build through the draft alone but the draft will force us to build something either with picks or trading them for current players.

Presently we have players still on contract for at least 2015-16 filling every roster spot. It's not like our only center we have is Colton Iverson or pg is Pressey.

Smart, IT
Bradley, Young
Turner, Wallace, Crowder??
Sully, KO
Zeller

If we draft Portis and Mickey/McCullough/Wood/Upshaw/etc. we will have a massive jam at the 4/5 where at least 1-2 guys will not be getting enough minutes. This is why something has to happen there either trhough trading some of the current guys or the picks.
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Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2015, 12:34:55 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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The concept is really the only way to do a proper build for a mid market team. It would be bad for the organization to sign someone like Kevin Love and tie max money into an injury prone 4. Guys like WCS and Portis would be much better fits than Love. If they really want to make a splash deal half our picks to Minnesota over the next 4 years and get a real difference maker in Okafor or Towns. Both are franchise big men which Love is not.

This is the Boston Celtics, not the Milwaukee Bucks or Charlotte Hornets.  The Celtics are one of the proudest franchises in the league with a legendary legacy. We are more than a mid-market team and I disagree we should buy into the crap shoot of becoming good through the draft.

Also, no one knows for sure if Okafor or Towns are going to be "difference makers." They could be another Kwame Brown for all we know.

The Celtics were mostly relevant in the pre Jordan era. Most of these players grew up in a time where there was no real difference between the Hornets Bucks and Celtics. They cannot sign a max free agent because of weather and nightlife and lack of endorsements.

Not sure if trolling or just wrong, but there is certainly something to be said about the palpable reaction the Celtics get from us, the game-attending fans, when they are a good team. It's Boston, Golden State, and Detroit that actually give a palpable home court advantage to their title-contending teams, IMO.
both actually

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2015, 12:39:50 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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- The chances we can bring in key FAs this upcoming season are slim to none.

-  Better chance to pickup key FAs from the 2016 FA period.

- There are alot more pf prospects coming in to workout for the Celtics than the past seasons.

- As much as I'm not a fan of Portis because we could use a frontcourt plus defender , he can spread the floor and has good quickness and overall size for a  pf. He had a good interview a few days ago and sounded like a positive guy.  Add 10-15 pounds of strength and who knows . If Ainge sees something in him, go for it. Also would not mind taking a risk at Upshaw at 16

- Add Jordan Mickey at 28 and you get that shot blocker on the team that you can put in in many different situations. Especiqlly if yoy got a guy like Lawson driving in at will.  Lob target also. Good defensive rebounder

- With the 33rd you can then draft the best shooter avalable or draft and stash

-  Same with the 45.

-At least one draft and stash (and there are lots of good looking ones) due to tight roster space

- do not reisgn Bass. Resign Jerebko that fits under cbs system

- trade Zeller for a future pick.

Lineup

C -  Portis
PF - Sullinger
SF - Turner
SG - AB
PG - Smart - more ball handling responsibility

Bench

C - KO
PF- Jerebko/Mickey
SF - Crowder
SG - Young/45th pick (3 pt shpoting specialists)
Pg - IT/Pressey

Thoughts?

Wait, what?

So many questions...

Why are our chances "slim to none" to sign a key free agent? The reports about Love should be a confidence builder. If not, we can still target other guys such as Middleton, Monroe, etc.

So you think it's better to wait until 2016 to sign a free agent when EVERYONE has cap space, rather than this season when few teams do?

A lot of prospects are coming in because we have a lot of picks.

Upshaw at 16 is too much of a reach. He may sneak into the second round as is.

You and Mickey. He's a projected late 1st/early 2nd pick for a reason. A hope for the best pick , but you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect him to come in and play meaningful minutes from the start.

Isn't getting "the best shooter at #33" sort of like getting the best steak you can buy for a dollar?
all of this.

how does having 4 low picks make this the draft to build with?  Next year C's could be looking at 4 lottery picks.  Nets and Dallas figure to be worse next year and likely to miss the playoffs.  East figures to be better with other teams getting back injured players and/or adding top picks so C's should have a much more difficult time making the playoffs.  Minny is adding Towns this year with another year of development from Wiggins, Dieng, Lavine, Shabazz and Rubio (not to mention having Pek as well) they could be in the fight for the 8th seed out West which could send their end-of-the-lottery/beginning of the non-lottery pick here. 


Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2015, 12:40:01 PM »

Offline greece66

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Per the value of our second rounders:
In most years there are four-five second rounders who find their way to become legit, or even good NBA players.
Our picks are both in the first half of the draft.
Our scouting is above average (I'm not claiming we are the best, but we are probably top-10 which increases our chances)
This year's draft is deep.

There is a good chance that at least one of our second rounders will turn out to be a good player.

And yes, it is Vezenkov I have in mind.

For a look at the second rounders in the last 20 years:
http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/27/8672115/a-look-at-the-last-20-years-of-second-round-nba-draft-picks

Edit: and Hernangomez

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2015, 12:43:57 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Shockingly, I disagree with the premise.

This team is most likely going to build through a combination of trades & free agent signings, IMO.  Not building via this particular draft by becoming enamored with mid to late 1st round talent.

Trades yes but like Danny has said, he needs partners to dance with.   Danny can offer whatever for the #4 and on paper looks like a good deal but the Knicks say no.

Trades and signing FAs is almost like winning 5 spots up in the draft lotto.  Good trades , signings does not happen frequently

I ask this question again, who was the last key FA that signed with the Celtics. ... waiting..

yeah that is the answer.   

Bulding through the draft is the "safe" and realistic answer right now.    We will get the chance. Have to prepare and choose the best players we can pick to work with the team to replace guys like Bass etc.  , add more talent level and in case we fail to do anything in the offseason
when did the C's have the money to sign a FA for more than the MLE? ... WAITING. 

never had the money to do it.  until someone who makes this baseless claim actually ponies up a timeframe for when the C's had the money and which FA they targetted and missed with that money, this is nothing more than a false claim people grasp when trying to beef up their argument for using the draft as the primary tool to build a team

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2015, 12:58:50 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Shockingly, I disagree with the premise.

This team is most likely going to build through a combination of trades & free agent signings, IMO.  Not building via this particular draft by becoming enamored with mid to late 1st round talent.

Trades yes but like Danny has said, he needs partners to dance with.   Danny can offer whatever for the #4 and on paper looks like a good deal but the Knicks say no.

Trades and signing FAs is almost like winning 5 spots up in the draft lotto.  Good trades , signings does not happen frequently

I ask this question again, who was the last key FA that signed with the Celtics. ... waiting..

yeah that is the answer.   

Bulding through the draft is the "safe" and realistic answer right now.    We will get the chance. Have to prepare and choose the best players we can pick to work with the team to replace guys like Bass etc.  , add more talent level and in case we fail to do anything in the offseason
when did the C's have the money to sign a FA for more than the MLE? ... WAITING. 

never had the money to do it.  until someone who makes this baseless claim actually ponies up a timeframe for when the C's had the money and which FA they targetted and missed with that money, this is nothing more than a false claim people grasp when trying to beef up their argument for using the draft as the primary tool to build a team
good post slamin. tp for you and your hampster.  ;D
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Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2015, 01:12:18 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Shockingly, I disagree with the premise.

This team is most likely going to build through a combination of trades & free agent signings, IMO.  Not building via this particular draft by becoming enamored with mid to late 1st round talent.

Trades yes but like Danny has said, he needs partners to dance with.   Danny can offer whatever for the #4 and on paper looks like a good deal but the Knicks say no.

Trades and signing FAs is almost like winning 5 spots up in the draft lotto.  Good trades , signings does not happen frequently

I ask this question again, who was the last key FA that signed with the Celtics. ... waiting..

yeah that is the answer.   

Bulding through the draft is the "safe" and realistic answer right now.    We will get the chance. Have to prepare and choose the best players we can pick to work with the team to replace guys like Bass etc.  , add more talent level and in case we fail to do anything in the offseason
when did the C's have the money to sign a FA for more than the MLE? ... WAITING. 

never had the money to do it.  until someone who makes this baseless claim actually ponies up a timeframe for when the C's had the money and which FA they targetted and missed with that money, this is nothing more than a false claim people grasp when trying to beef up their argument for using the draft as the primary tool to build a team

What?? The late 90's + early 2000 celtics did have room. 

You can also call it mismagement or whatever for the Celts to not have the wiggle room to bring in players for the other years

You are fighting with 15 other teams to sign LM this offseason. Even if your the Spurs, what are the chances you can pick him up?



« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 01:24:07 PM by triboy16f »

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2015, 02:21:32 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Triboy, think about what you're saying logically. You're not even proposing to build around the top 3 guys, but rather around picks #'s 16, 28, 33, and 45.

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2015, 02:41:42 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Shockingly, I disagree with the premise.

This team is most likely going to build through a combination of trades & free agent signings, IMO.  Not building via this particular draft by becoming enamored with mid to late 1st round talent.

Trades yes but like Danny has said, he needs partners to dance with.   Danny can offer whatever for the #4 and on paper looks like a good deal but the Knicks say no.

Trades and signing FAs is almost like winning 5 spots up in the draft lotto.  Good trades , signings does not happen frequently

I ask this question again, who was the last key FA that signed with the Celtics. ... waiting..

yeah that is the answer.   

Bulding through the draft is the "safe" and realistic answer right now.    We will get the chance. Have to prepare and choose the best players we can pick to work with the team to replace guys like Bass etc.  , add more talent level and in case we fail to do anything in the offseason
when did the C's have the money to sign a FA for more than the MLE? ... WAITING. 

never had the money to do it.  until someone who makes this baseless claim actually ponies up a timeframe for when the C's had the money and which FA they targetted and missed with that money, this is nothing more than a false claim people grasp when trying to beef up their argument for using the draft as the primary tool to build a team

What?? The late 90's + early 2000 celtics did have room. 

You can also call it mismagement or whatever for the Celts to not have the wiggle room to bring in players for the other years

You are fighting with 15 other teams to sign LM this offseason. Even if your the Spurs, what are the chances you can pick him up?

Summer 1997, during the Thanksdad Gaston era.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/316tdb/an_18_year_odyssey_the_celtics_time_above_the/

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Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2015, 02:59:59 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Triboy, think about what you're saying logically. You're not even proposing to build around the top 3 guys, but rather around picks #'s 16, 28, 33, and 45.

Bc what choice do we have??

Its not a surefire way but its another building block until Danny can orchastrate another trade or some key FA chooses to come here (better chance in 2016 FA period)

Draft = we will be participating

Trades /trade up/fa = little control

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2015, 03:07:57 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I think some folks here are aiming too high.  We are still a few years away from being a real threat in the playoffs

Watch if danny cant make a trade, move up, sign a key FA some posters here acting like its the end of the world

The small step plan for now is to draft say portis, mickey etc. And improve from last season. 

Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2015, 03:18:30 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think some folks here are aiming too high.  We are still a few years away from being a real threat in the playoffs

Watch if danny cant make a trade, move up, sign a key FA some posters here acting like its the end of the world

The small step plan for now is to draft say portis, mickey etc. And improve from last season.

I agree that it's possible that it will go that way. 

Every one agrees, though, I think, that Danny Ainge wouldn't be doing his job if he doesn't try to make some type of bold move to accelerate the rebuild, whether that's making a move to get better next season by acquiring an established player, or a move that upgrades the long term assets on the team by acquiring a higher pick in the draft.
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Re: The Celtics need to build through the 2015 draft
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2015, 03:32:01 PM »

Online Donoghus

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Shockingly, I disagree with the premise.

This team is most likely going to build through a combination of trades & free agent signings, IMO.  Not building via this particular draft by becoming enamored with mid to late 1st round talent.

Trades yes but like Danny has said, he needs partners to dance with.   Danny can offer whatever for the #4 and on paper looks like a good deal but the Knicks say no.

Trades and signing FAs is almost like winning 5 spots up in the draft lotto.  Good trades , signings does not happen frequently

I ask this question again, who was the last key FA that signed with the Celtics. ... waiting..

yeah that is the answer.   

Bulding through the draft is the "safe" and realistic answer right now.    We will get the chance. Have to prepare and choose the best players we can pick to work with the team to replace guys like Bass etc.  , add more talent level and in case we fail to do anything in the offseason
when did the C's have the money to sign a FA for more than the MLE? ... WAITING. 

never had the money to do it.  until someone who makes this baseless claim actually ponies up a timeframe for when the C's had the money and which FA they targetted and missed with that money, this is nothing more than a false claim people grasp when trying to beef up their argument for using the draft as the primary tool to build a team

What?? The late 90's + early 2000 celtics did have room. 

You can also call it mismagement or whatever for the Celts to not have the wiggle room to bring in players for the other years

You are fighting with 15 other teams to sign LM this offseason. Even if your the Spurs, what are the chances you can pick him up?

Summer 1997, during the Thanksdad Gaston era.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/316tdb/an_18_year_odyssey_the_celtics_time_above_the/

Chris Wallace never had cap space. Neither has Danny Ainge.

Crazy to think that they're are kids graduating high school this year who weren't even born the last time the Celtics were below the cap.

From that piece:

Quote
All of this will now likely lead to the Celtics going below the salary cap on or around July 10th of this year. There are still some low probability paths to keep them above it but it seems almost certain that the franchise's 18 consecutive years above the salary cap are coming to a close this offseason.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team