Author Topic: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)  (Read 7369 times)

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Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2015, 12:59:23 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7

Wait, you mean to tell me that the guys with 5-6 championships and several more years of experience have beaten more good opponents than the guy with only 2 rings and fewer years in the league?

After they won their second championship, this is how many 50 win teams they had beaten:
Kobe - 9 or 10 (was the 50 game season adjusted for?)
Jordan - 8
Duncan - 5 or 7 (again, was the 50 game season adjusted for?)

So to me it looks like LeBron is right on pace with those guys (though he'll be a little behind if he wins his 3rd ring this year, as Kobe and Jordan had beaten 3 additional 50 win teams, and Duncan 4 more, when they won their 3rd rings.

Jordan was retired at age 30 but had beaten 11 50 win teams in 9 playoff seasons at 29.  And more than a few of those were Jordan and the Bulls beating a team that had more wins.  And that's with Jordan losing in the first round his first three times in the playoffs, twice at the hands of the Celtics.  LeBron has always made it to the second round.

So when it comes to beating 50 win teams in the playoffs, LeBron has done it fewer times with more chances than Jordan.

Mike

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2015, 01:20:32 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7
when i look around on real gm, everyone is talking about how "he can't help it if he doesn't have any competition." Or "it's not his fault the east sucks"


Yes, it is his fault


He made the east suck BIG time when he took bosh from a playoff team, took himself from a playoff team, and went to a different playoff team, dismanling the east in the process. Taking most of the best players in the east with him.

THEN ditching those guys to be with some of the newer best players and pretending he's doing it out of honor

So we should blame Paul Pierce for taking 2 pretty good players from the west in 07?

You guys both have a fair point here. I do think it is fair to say that if Bosh had Stayed in Toronto and Wade had stayed on the Heat there would have been a very different competitive balance in the playoffs the last few years. Perhaps other players would have chosen to join Bosh in Toronto or Wade in Miami and some additional players would have chosen to go to Cleveland. It seems like there would have been at least two really good teams out of those three for the last 5 years instead of one, and maybe 3.

I think it could be argued that the Celtics big 3 temperarily weakened the west when it happened. It made the Sonics a team with a hope of being around a .500 or playoff team if kept together a complete rebuild and the same with the T-Wolves. However, we do also have to acknowledge these guys were all in their early 30's when this happened and, perhaps with the exception of KG for one season, not all-NBA first team level. The heat players were all in their mid-20's (with wade a little older) and could make teams playoff contenders on their own. Ray Allen and Pierce weren't really at that level when they formed.

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2015, 01:25:03 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2015, 02:04:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The reality is the Western teams have all pretty much just drafted better.  Davis, Durant, Westbrook, Kobe, Duncan, Leonard, Aldridge, Lillard, Curry, etc.

How many of the players you mentioned could have gone to an East team given where they were drafted?
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Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2015, 12:57:27 AM »

Offline GratefulCs

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7
when i look around on real gm, everyone is talking about how "he can't help it if he doesn't have any competition." Or "it's not his fault the east sucks"


Yes, it is his fault


He made the east suck BIG time when he took bosh from a playoff team, took himself from a playoff team, and went to a different playoff team, dismanling the east in the process. Taking most of the best players in the east with him.

THEN ditching those guys to be with some of the newer best players and pretending he's doing it out of honor

TP +1 nice username  ;D
Thanks!


TP right back at ya
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2015, 01:03:41 AM »

Offline GratefulCs

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The blame for the Heat should be placed on Pat Riley, not LeBron.
lebron wade and bosh conspired two years in advance



Riley just made the cap room
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2015, 01:09:40 AM »

Offline GratefulCs

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7
when i look around on real gm, everyone is talking about how "he can't help it if he doesn't have any competition." Or "it's not his fault the east sucks"


Yes, it is his fault


He made the east suck BIG time when he took bosh from a playoff team, took himself from a playoff team, and went to a different playoff team, dismanling the east in the process. Taking most of the best players in the east with him.

THEN ditching those guys to be with some of the newer best players and pretending he's doing it out of honor


Neither Bosh nor Wade were on teams close to winning 50 games at that point. 


Lebron lack of top competition in the East has everything to do with the running of those other teams, not Lebron personal FA choice.
whether they were on top teams or not, they were all top 10 players at the time and two of them left their teams


If a top ten player leaves a team with nothing in return, i'd say that team got weaker




Lebron knew what he was doing




Just like lebron knew what he was doing when he chose the number 6 in miami


He said he wanted a number with less historical significance. Straight shot at russell (and dr. J for that matter)




I trust Danny Ainge

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2015, 01:44:10 AM »

Offline GC003332

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If the team you support beats up some bottom feeder on the way to the finals do you get all apologetic about it hell no.
These are the records for teams the Lakers faced when they played Boston in the finals in 84,85 & 87

84

Kansas City Kings 38-44
Dallas 43-39
Phoenix 41-41

85

Phoenix 36-46
Portland 42-40
Denver 52-30

87

Denver 37-45
GSW.    42-40
Seattle.  39-43

Now I will have to ask the guys that saw these games first hand , Did Magic or Kareem have any sympathy for the Celtics for the imbalance in the strength of Conferences?

Or did they just take any advantage that they could get.

You have to take advantage of anything you can.





« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 01:51:07 AM by GC003332 »

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2015, 02:25:44 AM »

Offline MBunge

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I can't blame LeBron for how so many Eastern GMs suck at their job.  It is pretty much undeniable though that his dominance has been boosted slight by his awful the East has been.

Mike

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2015, 09:42:39 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7

Wait, you mean to tell me that the guys with 5-6 championships and several more years of experience have beaten more good opponents than the guy with only 2 rings and fewer years in the league?

After they won their second championship, this is how many 50 win teams they had beaten:
Kobe - 9 or 10 (was the 50 game season adjusted for?)
Jordan - 8
Duncan - 5 or 7 (again, was the 50 game season adjusted for?)

So to me it looks like LeBron is right on pace with those guys (though he'll be a little behind if he wins his 3rd ring this year, as Kobe and Jordan had beaten 3 additional 50 win teams, and Duncan 4 more, when they won their 3rd rings.

Jordan was retired at age 30 but had beaten 11 50 win teams in 9 playoff seasons at 29.  And more than a few of those were Jordan and the Bulls beating a team that had more wins.  And that's with Jordan losing in the first round his first three times in the playoffs, twice at the hands of the Celtics.  LeBron has always made it to the second round.-

So when it comes to beating 50 win teams in the playoffs, LeBron has done it fewer times with more chances than Jordan.

Mike
Jordan lost to a 50 win team in the playoffs in his first 6 playoffs.  So when he retired the first time he was 11-6. 

Not sure how you think Lebron has had more chances, he hasn't even played 17 50 win teams in the playoffs and is currently at just 16 (adjusted for the 66 game season when they played 2 and Boston was just 1 game off the pace which would have made 3).  Lebron is 9-7 in those games and obviously has another series against a 50 win team to go this year. 
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Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2015, 09:44:52 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The blame for the Heat should be placed on Pat Riley, not LeBron.
lebron wade and bosh conspired two years in advance



Riley just made the cap room

Yeah, exactly: Riley did the hard part. LeBron Bosh and Wade said "hey wouldn't it be cool if we did the Celtics thing and all joined up on one team?"

Riley was the one who made it happen.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2015, 09:57:19 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7

Wait, you mean to tell me that the guys with 5-6 championships and several more years of experience have beaten more good opponents than the guy with only 2 rings and fewer years in the league?

After they won their second championship, this is how many 50 win teams they had beaten:
Kobe - 9 or 10 (was the 50 game season adjusted for?)
Jordan - 8
Duncan - 5 or 7 (again, was the 50 game season adjusted for?)

So to me it looks like LeBron is right on pace with those guys (though he'll be a little behind if he wins his 3rd ring this year, as Kobe and Jordan had beaten 3 additional 50 win teams, and Duncan 4 more, when they won their 3rd rings.

Yes, but I think you need to look at Finals appearances, as they are indicitive of the number of teams played in a given postseason, rather than wins. Those guys have, at most, one loss in the Finals and have been to either 5 (Kobe & Duncan) or six (Jordan). LeBron has a Finals record of 2-3. So LeBron has been to the Finals just as many times as all of the previous guys (except for Jordan) and still trails their "quality win" totals significantly. At best in 5 attempts, LeBron would have 10 "quality" series wins (had he beaten the Western Conference in the Finals all three times, which he did not).

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2015, 10:24:37 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7

Wait, you mean to tell me that the guys with 5-6 championships and several more years of experience have beaten more good opponents than the guy with only 2 rings and fewer years in the league?

After they won their second championship, this is how many 50 win teams they had beaten:
Kobe - 9 or 10 (was the 50 game season adjusted for?)
Jordan - 8
Duncan - 5 or 7 (again, was the 50 game season adjusted for?)

So to me it looks like LeBron is right on pace with those guys (though he'll be a little behind if he wins his 3rd ring this year, as Kobe and Jordan had beaten 3 additional 50 win teams, and Duncan 4 more, when they won their 3rd rings.

Jordan was retired at age 30 but had beaten 11 50 win teams in 9 playoff seasons at 29.  And more than a few of those were Jordan and the Bulls beating a team that had more wins.  And that's with Jordan losing in the first round his first three times in the playoffs, twice at the hands of the Celtics.  LeBron has always made it to the second round.-

So when it comes to beating 50 win teams in the playoffs, LeBron has done it fewer times with more chances than Jordan.

Mike
Jordan lost to a 50 win team in the playoffs in his first 6 playoffs.  So when he retired the first time he was 11-6. 

Not sure how you think Lebron has had more chances, he hasn't even played 17 50 win teams in the playoffs and is currently at just 16 (adjusted for the 66 game season when they played 2 and Boston was just 1 game off the pace which would have made 3).  Lebron is 9-7 in those games and obviously has another series against a 50 win team to go this year.

The point isn't that it's LeBron's fault.  It's that LeBron has definitely faced a lower quality of opposition.

Mike

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2015, 10:26:31 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7

I think it was harder when Jordan did it.  The other guys are just prior but still existed during LeBron's time.  Kobe had Shaq and Jordan never had a guy like that.   Pippen was good but he was not on the level as Shaq.    Duncan had a great team around him.    LeBron tried to stack the deck, this is really his first team that he is carrying the whole load.   His previous Cavs teams were horrible.  When Jordan did it, there was less teams and more talent across the those teams and they could hand check.   It was even worse for Bird and Magic in terms of loaded teams.

Still if a lot come east it will toughen up the conference.   We really could use two stars.

Quote
These are the records for teams the Lakers faced when they played Boston in the finals in 84,85 & 87

84

Kansas City Kings 38-44
Dallas 43-39
Phoenix 41-41

85

Phoenix 36-46
Portland 42-40
Denver 52-30

87

Denver 37-45
GSW.    42-40
Seattle.  39-43

Yes and they played as good or better as we did.  So what are you trying to prove?    They did just fine in the finals.   The Lakers were the Best of the West and we were the Beast of the East.  If anything more competition might have made them harder to beat.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 10:32:46 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: "Players will consider going to the East, for sure" (article)
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2015, 10:39:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Yes I know Jordan was in the East too, but still an interesting stat that ESPN put up yesterday when everyone in the media was enamored with LeBron making 5 straight Finals (still pretty impressive);

Number of 50+ win teams they've eliminated in the postseason:
1. Kobe - 24
2. Jordan - 20
3. Duncan -18

LeBron - 7

Wait, you mean to tell me that the guys with 5-6 championships and several more years of experience have beaten more good opponents than the guy with only 2 rings and fewer years in the league?

After they won their second championship, this is how many 50 win teams they had beaten:
Kobe - 9 or 10 (was the 50 game season adjusted for?)
Jordan - 8
Duncan - 5 or 7 (again, was the 50 game season adjusted for?)

So to me it looks like LeBron is right on pace with those guys (though he'll be a little behind if he wins his 3rd ring this year, as Kobe and Jordan had beaten 3 additional 50 win teams, and Duncan 4 more, when they won their 3rd rings.

Jordan was retired at age 30 but had beaten 11 50 win teams in 9 playoff seasons at 29.  And more than a few of those were Jordan and the Bulls beating a team that had more wins.  And that's with Jordan losing in the first round his first three times in the playoffs, twice at the hands of the Celtics.  LeBron has always made it to the second round.-

So when it comes to beating 50 win teams in the playoffs, LeBron has done it fewer times with more chances than Jordan.

Mike
Jordan lost to a 50 win team in the playoffs in his first 6 playoffs.  So when he retired the first time he was 11-6. 

Not sure how you think Lebron has had more chances, he hasn't even played 17 50 win teams in the playoffs and is currently at just 16 (adjusted for the 66 game season when they played 2 and Boston was just 1 game off the pace which would have made 3).  Lebron is 9-7 in those games and obviously has another series against a 50 win team to go this year.

The point isn't that it's LeBron's fault.  It's that LeBron has definitely faced a lower quality of opposition.

Mike
I was merely commenting on your statement that he has had more chances.  That just isn't accurate. 
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