Author Topic: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.  (Read 16951 times)

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Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2015, 08:45:32 AM »

Offline TheOneTrueRobb

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I guess I don't mind KO getting dumped for Love. Keep Sully and Love! But that'll be a jerk move by Love to request for that lol.

Love was pretty POed after ArmSocketGate, understandably. Reports are that he's cooled off.

He and KO are pros, and will work it out....
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Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2015, 10:18:28 AM »

Offline dwoumn

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There is no question about Kevin Love's skill set, he's an all-star. But I have to question his leadership and the type of teammate his is. While in Minny Ricky Rubio pointed out that his lack of leadership. This young Celtics team needs a leader on the court. Crash has done a great job of being a mentor and leader for the C's but he's not on the court to lead. If Love comes to Boston, I think it will be crucial to be a good leader. He is also known for pointing out his teammates for being at fault as well. Hardly does he take the blame with losses, and that is not a teammate the C's want. I have never been on the K. love to Boston ship, I'd rather see the C's go after L. Aldridge or continue to develop Sully and Olynyk. I've never been team Olynyk but is rather see Olynyk in a Celtics uni than Kevin Love.

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2015, 10:27:00 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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Crimson, it's important to realize the context of the statistics you're using. Kevin Love is on the same team as LeBron James and Kyrie Irving, the team representing the Eastern Conference in the NBA Finals, and yet he still averaged more points and rebounds per game than Jared Sullinger, who played on the 7th seed, swept-in-the-first-round Boston Celtics.

...as a result of more playing time. 

Love's point and rebound increases over Sully are almost 100% directly correlated with his increase in playing time.  Their scoring and rebounding numbers on a per minute basis are essentially identical.

While you say it's important to understand Love's context, it's also important to understand Sully's context. 

Sully plays on a team who's offense doesn't focus on any one player - it's designed to take advantage of the roster's depth by sharing the ball, rather than playing through any two or three guys. 

Everybody talk about what Love did in Minnesota, but in Minny he was playing MASSIVE minutes and taking a HUGE amount of shots in an offensive that ran entirely through him as the entire focus of their offense.  Boston doesn't have that type of offensive in place, so if he came here I don't think he'd give you the type of production you're expecting.  I think his numbers may jump a little from where they are, but not as much as you probably think. 

Do you honestly think Brad Stevens won't put Kevin Love in the best position for him to be as successful as possible? People make to much out of 'systems'. If Kevin Love comes here Boston's offense will change.You'll see a lot of post dominated play and some AWESOME pick and rolls.

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2015, 10:47:31 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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Everyone knows Kevin Love is better than Jared Sullinger right? I can't see why people would argue for keeping Sullinger instead of signing Love. If we sign Love then trade Sullinger we improved at the 4 by a considerable amount and picked up another asset.

With Sullinger's inability to stay in shape I think giving him a long term contract is a dubious proposition. So we are essentially moving on from him a year before we were probably going to do so anyway.

The two biggest differences between Love and Sullinger are shooting and shape. Love has been a 35%+ 3 point shooter pretty much since he came into the league. We are still hoping Sullinger can become a 30% 3 point shooter. After Love's 2nd season, he realized that to get to the next level he needed to get in great shape. After Sullinger's second season he gained weight.

Even if Sullinger, loses weight this offseason in a contract year, do you trust him to keep it off once we sign him to a contract? I certainly don't. If we can't trust him to stay in shape we need to move on from him, and if we need to move on from him we can't do any better than a player who as recently as last year was thought of as a top 10 player.
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Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2015, 10:55:27 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The argument is that if Sully can be 75% of the player that Love is for a contract that is half the size, you're coming out on top.

I waffle on whether or not this is true, but that's the logic.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2015, 11:12:05 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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The argument is that if Sully can be 75% of the player that Love is for a contract that is half the size, you're coming out on top.

I waffle on whether or not this is true, but that's the logic.
Fair enough. I would agree with this logic if there was a player who would be a similar upgrade at another position that was attainable to the C's in free agency. My argument for Love (other than him being a player who looked elite for a lot of his career) is that he is the best player we could possibly add, which imo necessitates adding him.
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Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2015, 10:50:09 AM »

Offline Hemingway

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The argument is that if Sully can be 75% of the player that Love is for a contract that is half the size, you're coming out on top.

I guess that qualifies as an argument. But by that logic, lets trade Sully for someone who will give us 75% of his production at 75% his cost. You want to get more talent not less. This is one of the few times when the money doesn't really matter. With the cap going up, it is hard to give bad deals now. The only reason to not sign Kevin Love is if you have 2 of LBJ, Gasol and LMA at your door ready to sign.

This reminds me of years back, on here or realgm I can't remember, when a real solid chunk of the the board was against the Jefferson for KG trade.

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2015, 11:10:32 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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The argument is that if Sully can be 75% of the player that Love is for a contract that is half the size, you're coming out on top.

I waffle on whether or not this is true, but that's the logic.

That would be good if we can get someone else as good or better than Love (or the player in question). But if not, we end up with a team thats 50% cheaper but also only 75% as good.

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2015, 11:31:10 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Everyone knows Kevin Love is better than Jared Sullinger right? I can't see why people would argue for keeping Sullinger instead of signing Love. If we sign Love then trade Sullinger we improved at the 4 by a considerable amount and picked up another asset.

With Sullinger's inability to stay in shape I think giving him a long term contract is a dubious proposition. So we are essentially moving on from him a year before we were probably going to do so anyway.

The two biggest differences between Love and Sullinger are shooting and shape. Love has been a 35%+ 3 point shooter pretty much since he came into the league. We are still hoping Sullinger can become a 30% 3 point shooter. After Love's 2nd season, he realized that to get to the next level he needed to get in great shape. After Sullinger's second season he gained weight.

Even if Sullinger, loses weight this offseason in a contract year, do you trust him to keep it off once we sign him to a contract? I certainly don't. If we can't trust him to stay in shape we need to move on from him, and if we need to move on from him we can't do any better than a player who as recently as last year was thought of as a top 10 player.

TP for the truth.

Celtics fans have a habit of becoming oddly infatuated with, and thus conflating the possibilities of, young drafted players. It's been happening on this blog since it started.

There simply is no comparison between the games of Kevin Love, an accomplished NBA scorer, and Jared Sullinger, an accomplished NBA eater.

None.

I would have no heartburn whatsoever about unloading Sullinger. He is what he is, and he's never going to be an upper-echelon NBA player.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2015, 12:29:54 PM »

Offline boscel33

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Everyone knows Kevin Love is better than Jared Sullinger right? I can't see why people would argue for keeping Sullinger instead of signing Love. If we sign Love then trade Sullinger we improved at the 4 by a considerable amount and picked up another asset.

With Sullinger's inability to stay in shape I think giving him a long term contract is a dubious proposition. So we are essentially moving on from him a year before we were probably going to do so anyway.

The two biggest differences between Love and Sullinger are shooting and shape. Love has been a 35%+ 3 point shooter pretty much since he came into the league. We are still hoping Sullinger can become a 30% 3 point shooter. After Love's 2nd season, he realized that to get to the next level he needed to get in great shape. After Sullinger's second season he gained weight.

Even if Sullinger, loses weight this offseason in a contract year, do you trust him to keep it off once we sign him to a contract? I certainly don't. If we can't trust him to stay in shape we need to move on from him, and if we need to move on from him we can't do any better than a player who as recently as last year was thought of as a top 10 player.

TP for the truth.

Celtics fans have a habit of becoming oddly infatuated with, and thus conflating the possibilities of, young drafted players. It's been happening on this blog since it started.

There simply is no comparison between the games of Kevin Love, an accomplished NBA scorer, and Jared Sullinger, an accomplished NBA eater.

None.

I would have no heartburn whatsoever about unloading Sullinger. He is what he is, and he's never going to be an upper-echelon NBA player.

The reason some of us are infatuated with young players is maybe our young players turn into something like Love, remember, he was a young player once too, with no guarantees.
"There's sharks and minnows in this world. If you don't know which you are, you ain't a shark."

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2015, 12:38:33 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Everyone knows Kevin Love is better than Jared Sullinger right? I can't see why people would argue for keeping Sullinger instead of signing Love. If we sign Love then trade Sullinger we improved at the 4 by a considerable amount and picked up another asset.

With Sullinger's inability to stay in shape I think giving him a long term contract is a dubious proposition. So we are essentially moving on from him a year before we were probably going to do so anyway.

The two biggest differences between Love and Sullinger are shooting and shape. Love has been a 35%+ 3 point shooter pretty much since he came into the league. We are still hoping Sullinger can become a 30% 3 point shooter. After Love's 2nd season, he realized that to get to the next level he needed to get in great shape. After Sullinger's second season he gained weight.

Even if Sullinger, loses weight this offseason in a contract year, do you trust him to keep it off once we sign him to a contract? I certainly don't. If we can't trust him to stay in shape we need to move on from him, and if we need to move on from him we can't do any better than a player who as recently as last year was thought of as a top 10 player.

TP for the truth.

Celtics fans have a habit of becoming oddly infatuated with, and thus conflating the possibilities of, young drafted players. It's been happening on this blog since it started.

There simply is no comparison between the games of Kevin Love, an accomplished NBA scorer, and Jared Sullinger, an accomplished NBA eater.

None.

I would have no heartburn whatsoever about unloading Sullinger. He is what he is, and he's never going to be an upper-echelon NBA player.

The reason some of us are infatuated with young players is maybe our young players turn into something like Love, remember, he was a young player once too, with no guarantees.

Kevin Love is 26. Kelly Olynyk is 24, and Jared Sullinger is 23.

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2015, 12:56:28 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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The argument is that if Sully can be 75% of the player that Love is for a contract that is half the size, you're coming out on top.

I waffle on whether or not this is true, but that's the logic.

That would be good if we can get someone else as good or better than Love (or the player in question). But if not, we end up with a team thats 50% cheaper but also only 75% as good.

not necessarily. What you end up with is a team that is 50% cheaper at the starting PF position and just 75% as good at that position. The effect on the team is what you do with the 50% savings. If you use it to improve the team overall by more than the 25% production you gave up at the starting PF position then you have improved the team. If you do not use the 50% savings to improve the team or if you actually have to spend more at the back up PF position because of the 75% reduction in output, it may be a negative impact on the team.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 03:07:21 PM by Ogaju »

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2015, 01:16:34 PM »

Offline CeltsAcumen

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Everyone knows Kevin Love is better than Jared Sullinger right? I can't see why people would argue for keeping Sullinger instead of signing Love. If we sign Love then trade Sullinger we improved at the 4 by a considerable amount and picked up another asset.

With Sullinger's inability to stay in shape I think giving him a long term contract is a dubious proposition. So we are essentially moving on from him a year before we were probably going to do so anyway.

The two biggest differences between Love and Sullinger are shooting and shape. Love has been a 35%+ 3 point shooter pretty much since he came into the league. We are still hoping Sullinger can become a 30% 3 point shooter. After Love's 2nd season, he realized that to get to the next level he needed to get in great shape. After Sullinger's second season he gained weight.

Even if Sullinger, loses weight this offseason in a contract year, do you trust him to keep it off once we sign him to a contract? I certainly don't. If we can't trust him to stay in shape we need to move on from him, and if we need to move on from him we can't do any better than a player who as recently as last year was thought of as a top 10 player.

TP for the truth.

Celtics fans have a habit of becoming oddly infatuated with, and thus conflating the possibilities of, young drafted players. It's been happening on this blog since it started.

There simply is no comparison between the games of Kevin Love, an accomplished NBA scorer, and Jared Sullinger, an accomplished NBA eater.

None.

I would have no heartburn whatsoever about unloading Sullinger. He is what he is, and he's never going to be an upper-echelon NBA player.

its a Boston thing.  Talk to a Red Sox fan and they will go one foreva about their prospects and how in three years all of their prospects will be in the all star game.

I think its just fan overhype of the talent you have. 

I am not a huge fan of Love or his attitude, but if the Celts can sign him with just money and not give up picks or players and then they can turn around and trade Olynyk and #16 for Willey Cauley Stein as a D stopper to add with Sullinger and Love, that could work out.

But Sully and Love are gonna be a horrendous D team at the #4

Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2015, 01:25:51 PM »

Offline max215

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Everyone knows Kevin Love is better than Jared Sullinger right? I can't see why people would argue for keeping Sullinger instead of signing Love. If we sign Love then trade Sullinger we improved at the 4 by a considerable amount and picked up another asset.

With Sullinger's inability to stay in shape I think giving him a long term contract is a dubious proposition. So we are essentially moving on from him a year before we were probably going to do so anyway.

The two biggest differences between Love and Sullinger are shooting and shape. Love has been a 35%+ 3 point shooter pretty much since he came into the league. We are still hoping Sullinger can become a 30% 3 point shooter. After Love's 2nd season, he realized that to get to the next level he needed to get in great shape. After Sullinger's second season he gained weight.

Even if Sullinger, loses weight this offseason in a contract year, do you trust him to keep it off once we sign him to a contract? I certainly don't. If we can't trust him to stay in shape we need to move on from him, and if we need to move on from him we can't do any better than a player who as recently as last year was thought of as a top 10 player.

TP for the truth.

Celtics fans have a habit of becoming oddly infatuated with, and thus conflating the possibilities of, young drafted players. It's been happening on this blog since it started.

There simply is no comparison between the games of Kevin Love, an accomplished NBA scorer, and Jared Sullinger, an accomplished NBA eater.

None.

I would have no heartburn whatsoever about unloading Sullinger. He is what he is, and he's never going to be an upper-echelon NBA player.

its a Boston thing.  Talk to a Red Sox fan and they will go one foreva about their prospects and how in three years all of their prospects will be in the all star game.

I think its just fan overhype of the talent you have. 

I am not a huge fan of Love or his attitude, but if the Celts can sign him with just money and not give up picks or players and then they can turn around and trade Olynyk and #16 for Willey Cauley Stein as a D stopper to add with Sullinger and Love, that could work out.

But Sully and Love are gonna be a horrendous D team at the #4

Wouldn't the idea be to compensate for this by pairing Love with a defensively strong 5 (ie. WCS or DeAndre Jordan)? I'm on the same page as you though: I'm not a huge Love fan, but if we can sign him, then we MUST.
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Re: Here is why Love ends up in Boston.
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2015, 02:32:42 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Everyone knows Kevin Love is better than Jared Sullinger right? I can't see why people would argue for keeping Sullinger instead of signing Love. If we sign Love then trade Sullinger we improved at the 4 by a considerable amount and picked up another asset.

I think a lot of people miss this. It's not like acquiring him is some sort of irreversible and permanent commitment to keep him on the team for a decade.

Even if Love doesn't end up returning to MVP-candidate level, he's in all likelihood going to remain a very good and more important moveable player. If he doesn't work out for one reason or another, you move on.

Heck, if you're smart/lucky enough you can recover even if he ends up totally sucking. Look at Golden State...their highest-paid player is David Lee and he's pulling DNP-CDs more often than he sees the court. It's like if the highest-paid player on the 1986 Celtics had been Greg Kite.